BS: Popular Views on Obama

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 09:32 PM

Congrats on Post 3200, Carol!! Our man has certainly stirred up a long-running thread!


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Sawzaw
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 05:45 PM

I find it perfectly and pleasingly poignant that Louis Farrakhan, AKA Louis X, AKA Louis Eugene Walcott, Supreme Minister of the Nation of Islam and the National Representative of Elijah Muhammad, Calypso singer and violinist "The Charmer", a descendant of the ancient forefathers of Africa, another man in Obama's and Bill Ayres tight knit neighborhood of radicals and liberal elitists, preached this to his congregation with divine and unerring accuracy:

You are the instruments that God is gonna use to bring about universal change, and that is why Barack has captured the youth. And he has involved young people in a political process that they didn't care anything about. That's a sign. When the Messiah speaks, the youth will hear, and the Messiah is absolutely speaking.

It is to be noted that Farrakahn's religion is on spaceships and other outer space mumbo jumbo like L Ron Hubbard and people still fall for it.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Sawzaw
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 06:04 PM

Some background on Obama supporter Farrakhan:

Louis Farrakhan: Liar Extraordinaire.

Louis Gene Walcott Farrakhan is not a Muslim, nor is his doctrine Islaam. Farrakhan is the leader of a black racist cult called "the Nation of Islaam," (NOI) founded in Detroit, Michigan in the 1930's. While the group calls its followers Muslims, in reality, they have very little to do with the faith of Islaam. Islaam believes in the total transcendence of Almighty God (called in Arabic, Allaah), the NOI teaches that black people are angelic gods. Islaam maintains universal brotherhood, the NOI says that Islaam is for blacks only. Islaam teaches that Prophethood ended with Muhammad Ibn Abdullah, more than 1400 years ago. The NOI teaches that Farrakhan's teacher, Elijah Muhammad, is the last prophet. Islaam teaches principles of spiritual and moral decorum such prayer, fasting, charity, pilgrimage, etc, Elijah Muhammad cast these out or altered them beyond recognition.

Yet, it is an error to oversimplify the issue by denouncing Farrakhan's racist diatribes while playing down Farrakhan's God-is-a-man and Prophet-after-Muhammad beliefs. Racism has very little to do with the issue. Sure, racism is contrary to Islaamic principles and Islaam rejects it. However, the deviation of Elijah Muhammad and Louis Farrakhan are MUCH more serious than racism. It is the sin which Allaah DOES NOT forgive. If Farrakhan would leave his man-is-god and prophet-after-Muhammad beliefs, but was still a raving racist, he would be much better off than the other way around! Let me say very clearly, that there is NO ideology on the face of this earth which could be farther from Islaam than that of Louis Farrakhan. NONE!

The NOI's origins are found in

(a) Two black self-improvement movements that began shortly before World War I: the "Moorish Science Temple of America," founded in 1913 by Timothy Drew, and the "Universal Negro Improvement Association," founded in 1914 by Marcus Garvey.

(b) The NOI was also shaped by a Depression-era con-man, and convicted drug dealer, Wallace Dodd Ford. Upon Ford's 1929 release from California's San Quintin Prison, he moved to Detroit to start a new life. Ford used a number of names, including Wali Farad and Master Fard and claimed to be from Mecca, Arabia. Being that Ford's parentage was a mixture of white and South Pacific Maori, he used his skin color and his prison con skills to pass himself off to blacks as a "mystic" and a "prophet" from the Middle East.

Working as a door-to-door rug salesman by day, Ford blended the ideas of Garvey and Drew along with a smattering of Islaam, to form what would later become the Nation of Islam. Among his first students was an unemployed Georgia migrant worker, Elijah Poole, who Ford renamed "Elijah Muhammad." In later years, Ford disappeared and Elijah assumed leadership of the NOI which he held until his death in 1975.

Elijah developed an convoluted belief system based on ideas extracted from everything from Christianity to Masonry to Islaam. He elevated Ford's status to that of the Creator of the heavens and earth, and he developed a myth which he dubbed, "Yacub's History." This racist doctrine is still maintained by Louis Farrakhan.

In brief, the doctrine states that the first humans, a race of black people, whom the NOI calls 'the Original Man,' created white people in a genetic experiment 6,000 years ago. Elijah claimed that they (the whites) would rule the world for 6,000 years and then be destroyed at the 'end of their time' by the blacks. He said that 'Judgement Day' means that at the 'end of time' the Gods (i.e., blacks) would destroy the entire white race (devils) and then establish a Paradise (nation) on this earth ruled forever by the blacks (i.e., Gods).

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Sawzaw
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 06:08 PM

Farrakhan continued:

For a number of years, Farrakhan has managed to present himself as a champion for the oppressed masses, this also is a distortion. Like his teacher, Farrakhan has for more than 35 years engaged in hoodwinking blacks out of money in the name of black self improvement. The only self-improvement however, that has taken place has been for Farrakhan's family and their associates.

Additionally, his entire inspiration for the "Million Man March" is based on his alleged, "vision of being swept into a UFO that took him to a larger mothership." While in the UFO, he claims to have spoken to the late Elijah Muhammad before being beamed back to earth. (The Washington Post, Sept. 18, 1995, p. D3).

What many do not realize, is that Farrakhan has repeated this doctrine for more than 35 years! Indeed, Farrakhan's UFO "vision" is an inseparable, doctrinal link to the heretical claims of Elijah Muhammad. Elijah explained that blacks were originally, "moon people" and that the UFO "mother wheel" was piloted by 13 youths who perpetually orbited the earth, waiting to unleash global destruction on whites, while rescuing all blacks. Farrakhan to this day, teaches this same doctrine- his inspiration for the Million Man March. The Million Man March in fact, was planned with the following goals in mind:

(a) To hold it in Washington, and aim for a turnout of one million, so as to surpass the number of attendees at Martin Luther King's 1963 March on Washington, and thereafter be promoted as being greater than Dr. King and Malcolm X.

(b) By being mentioned in the same context with Dr. King, Farrakhan hopes to be remembered likewise as a charismatic, messianic black figure who commands a large and politically significant following among US blacks.

(c) To remove the cloud of suspicion which still surrounds Farrakhan regarding his involvement in Malcolm X's assassination.

(d) Most importantly, Farrakhan has to find a new way to pay for his and his family's ornate palaces in Chicago and Phoenix, his Lexus, Mercedes, Rolls Royce and Lincoln Town Cars, a Mexican villa, a new 77-acre Michigan estate and over $1.5 million dollars in unpaid back taxes. This is the reason he had an $11 registration fee, a $3.99 per minute 900 number for call-in registration (Average call is three minutes), a $700 vendor's fee, (reduced from $1000), and even ads in his newspaper soliciting for "donations" to "help defray the astronomical costs of the march," in exchange for listing the donor's name and city under appropriate categories (Platinum, Gold, etc.): $1000 or more (Platinum), $500 or more (Gold), $100 or more (Silver), $25 or more (Patron) not to mention $2 "special issues" of his 'Final Call' newspaper. Louis. A true high-tech con-man. You want to see Louie's real vision?: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

It is thus impossible for anyone to try to make a distinction between Farrakhan and his UFO inspiration, or "endorse the goals of the march without endorsing Farrakhan," or say that Farrakhan is greater than Malcolm X. Malcolm's greatness was as a result of his renouncement of Elijah's false teachings, and his acceptance of true Islaam, factors which Farrakhan has yet to achieve....

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Alice
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 06:10 PM

"I decry racism and anti-Semitism in every form and strongly condemn the anti-Semitic statements made by Minister Farrakhan," Obama said in the statement. "I assume that Trumpet Magazine made its own decision to honor Farrakhan based on his efforts to rehabilitate ex-offenders, but it is not a decision with which I agree."

January 15, 2008

Hours after Farrakhan praised Obama during his annual Saviours' Day speech last Sunday, the Obama campaign moved to distance the candidate from Farrakhan, telling the Associated Press that it did not solicit Farrakhan's support.

In responding to questions during the debate, Obama took a much stronger approach.

"I have been very clear in my denunciation of Minister Farrakhan's anti-Semitic comments," Obama told Tim Russert, NBC Washington Bureau chief.

"I did not solicit his support. ... I obviously can't censor him, but it is not support that I sought. And we're not doing anything, I assure you formally or informally, with Minister Farrakhan."

March 2008

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 06:10 PM

Obama has no connection whatever with Farrakhan.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Sawzaw
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 06:37 PM

Never the less, the racist bigot, Farrakhan, just another guy in the neighborhood, encourages people to vote for Obama which benefits Obama.


Bill Ayers, famous "mainstream fixture" of the Chicago scene, poses for a magazine trampling the American flag in 2001 when Barack Hussein Obama was but a sprightly lad of forty one years old.

Ayres supports Obama and he contributed to Obama's campaign. Why hasn't Obama denounced Ayres?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 06:38 PM

You ar ebbeing pure-dee idiotic, Sawz, not to mention disingenuous and slanderous, by pursuing the effort to link Farrakhan with Obama.

Why must you persist in your asininities?

Grow up.



A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 06:39 PM

So....you were expecting Farrakhan to endorse McCain and Palin, weren't you, Sawzaw??? Hey, man, I was really surprised too that he would endorse Obama. Sheesh. I was astounded in fact.

I mean, God!....I just can't countenance HOW he would NOT endorse McCain, given his and McCain's general set of values...

It's perplexing. It's disturbing. What shall we do about it?

LOL!

Look, why don't we talk about something that really matters for a change? Or should I go and find the most unstable and bizarre individual in the USA who is endorsing McCain that I can and start a fearmongering thread about it?

Yeah, right. As if it fucking matters who this or that nutbar out there decides to endorse. Give me strength. I can't wait for the utter bullshit of this goddamn American election to end.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Sawzaw
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 06:55 PM

As if it fucking matters who this or that nutbar out there decides that wants impeached or wants to blame everything including the bad weather on.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 06:59 PM

None of it fucking matters. We're all just blowing hot air because the pressure builds up inside us and we need to vent. You know that by now, don't you? But why can't people here talk about something substantial rather than just hurling pointless innuendo this way or that way?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Sawzaw
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 07:09 PM

Amos wanted popular views and he is getting them:
Obama is a Lightworker: Lightworkers use Light Energy within New Age Spirituality and alternative healing practices. Some of the more common forms of this form of Lightwork are: healing modalities that use different energetic processes such as reiki, and balancing or connecting energies from one place to another, such as from the Universe to the Earth grids. Pleiadian Lightwork created by Amorah Quan Yin is another system that employs the term itself. A new form of Energetic Lightwork is Vortex healing, which is derived from the Merlin lineage and encompasses Angelic healing.

Barack Obama isn't really one of us. Not in the normal way, anyway.

This is what I find myself offering up more and more in response to the whiners and the frowners and to those with broken or sadly dysfunctional karmic antennae - or no antennae at all - to all those who just don't understand and maybe even actively recoil against all this chatter about Obama's aura and feel and MLK/JFK-like vibe.
   To them I say, all right, you want to know what it is? The appeal, the pull, the ethereal and magical thing that seems to enthrall millions of people from all over the world, that keeps opening up and firing into new channels of the culture normally completely unaffected by politics?
   No, it's not merely his youthful vigor, or handsomeness, or even inspiring rhetoric. It is not fresh ideas or cool charisma or the fact that a black president will be historic and revolutionary in about a thousand different ways. It is something more. Even Bill Clinton, with all his effortless, winking charm, didn't have what Obama has, which is a sort of powerful luminosity, a unique high-vibration integrity.
   Dismiss it all you like, but I've heard from far too many enormously smart, wise, spiritually attuned people who've been intuitively blown away by Obama's presence - not speeches, not policies, but sheer presence - to say it's just a clever marketing ploy, a slick gambit carefully orchestrated by hotshot campaign organizers who, once Obama gets into office, will suddenly turn from perky optimists to vile soul-sucking lobbyist whores, with Obama as their suddenly evil, cackling overlord.
   Here's where it gets gooey. Many spiritually advanced people I know (not coweringly religious, mind you, but deeply spiritual) identify Obama as a Lightworker, that rare kind of attuned being who has the ability to lead us not merely to new foreign policies or health care plans or whatnot, but who can actually help usher in a new way of being on the planet, of relating and connecting and engaging with this bizarre earthly experiment. These kinds of people actually help us evolve. They are philosophers and peacemakers of a very high order, and they speak not just to reason or emotion, but to the soul.
   The unusual thing is, true Lightworkers almost never appear on such a brutal, spiritually demeaning stage as national politics. This is why Obama is so rare. And this why he is so often compared to Kennedy and Martin Luther King Jr., to those leaders in our culture whose stirring vibrations still resonate throughout our short history.
   Are you rolling your eyes and scoffing? Fine by me. But you gotta wonder, why has, say, the JFK legacy lasted so long, is so vital to our national identity? Yes, the assassination canonized his legend. The Kennedy family is our version of royalty. But there's something more. Those attuned to energies beyond the literal meanings of things, these people say JFK wasn't assassinated for any typical reason you can name. It's because he was just this kind of high-vibration being, a peacemaker, at odds with the war machine, the CIA, the dark side. And it killed him.
   Now, Obama. The next step. Another try. And perhaps, as Bush laid waste to the land and embarrassed the country and pummeled our national spirit into disenchanted pulp and yet ironically, in so doing has helped set the stage for an even larger and more fascinating evolutionary burp, we are finally truly ready for another Lightworker to step up.
   Let me be completely clear: I'm not arguing some sort of utopian revolution, a big global group hug with Obama as some sort of happy hippie camp counselor. I'm not saying the man's going to swoop in like a superhero messiah and stop all wars and make the flowers grow and birds sing and solve world hunger and bring puppies to schoolchildren.
   Please. I'm also certainly not saying he's perfect, that his presidency will be free of compromise, or slimy insiders, or great heaps of politics-as-usual. While Obama's certainly an entire universe away from George W. Bush in terms of quality, integrity, intelligence and overall inspirational energy, well, so is your dog. Hell, it isn't hard to stand far above and beyond the worst president in American history.
   But there simply is no denying that extra kick. As one reader put it to me, in a way, it's not even about Obama, per se. There's a vast amount of positive energy swirling about that's been held back by the armies of BushCo darkness, and this energy has now found a conduit, a lightning rod, is now effortlessly self-organizing around Obama's candidacy. People and emotions and ideas of high and positive vibration are automatically drawn to him. It's exactly like how Bush was a magnet for the low vibrational energies of fear and war and oppression and aggression, but, you know, completely reversed. And different. And far, far better.
   Don't buy any of it? Think that's all a bunch of tofu-sucking New Agey bulls-- and Obama is really a dangerously elitist political salesman whose inexperience will lead us further into darkness because, when you're talking national politics, nothing, really, ever changes? I understand. I get it. I often believe it myself.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 07:17 PM

So here's the deal, Sawz, that you just don't get...

So what if I were to endorse McCain??

Hey, I was a 60's radical... I was the "rector" of the Radical Student Union at VCU... I knew Jerry Rubin... I knew Abbie Hoffman... I organized some purdy rowdy anti-war demonstrations... There was a attempted bombing of VCU's president, Warren Brandt, by people I knew... And, yes, I was part of trashing the offices of the "Commonwealth Times" after it ran a racist cartoon of Jim Elam, a black student who was running as for campus student president...

Yeah, I did this stuff and alot more...

So, if I use yer logic/illogic by me endorseing McCain then McCain is also guilty of the things I did then count me in...

I'd endorse him right here and now if I knew that it would get the publicity that Farakhan has gotten from the rightie bloggers...

Yeah, I can see the headlines in tomorrow's Washington Post "McCain Linked to 60's Radical"....

Where do I sign up???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 08:03 PM

Ahh...the Lightworker thing...now that's interesting. It's also something the mainstream media and the average American wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole...aside from the folks in the New Age community and a few like-minded people.

Yeah, there are some genuine lightworkers out there...and there are some phonies too. And there are probably even some who are a bit of both. There always have been a few such people.

Now if Obama is a genuine lightworker as set out in that dissertation...well, that could have some powerful results, all right, although the resistance put up by the old established forces against it would be formidable. Such people have the ability to inspire others and shift the mood of a nation dramatically in a more positive direction on the (very) rare occasions that they go into political life.

Hard to say what would happen...but I'd say that his life would be in grave jeopardy, yet the possibilities for positive change would also be immense.

I've seen some lightwork done in my life. It's real. If you don't think so, well, fine...

Everyone has the right to believe in their own version of reality as best they can.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Sawzaw
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 11:09 PM

Bobert, Farrakhan, Ayres, Ghadaffi, Anybody can endorse anybody they want. And Jesse Jackson can say he wants to cut Obama's nuts off because he been um talkin down to black people. It is a free country.

However Mr Obama wants to use lynch mob tactics to stiffle free speech. Why doesen't he block Farrakhan for his divisive, destructive ranting? Because it benefits Obama?

As nation watches Denver, Obama campaign muscles Chicago station over ex-radical Ayres

LA Times:

In a surprising attempt to stifle broadcast criticism of its candidate, the presidential campaign of freshman Illinois senator Barack Obama is organizing supporters to confront Chicago's WGN radio station for having a critic of the Illinois Democrat on its main evening discussion program.
"WGN radio is giving right-wing hatchet man Stanley Kurtz a forum to air his baseless, fear-mongering terrorist smears," Obama's campaign wrote in an e-mail sent to supporters. "He's currently scheduled to spend a solid two-hour block from 9:00 to 11:00 p.m. (Wednesday night) pushing lies, distortions, and manipulations about Barack and University of Illinois professor William Ayers."
    Station logo of Chicago's WGN Radio 720 the target of an orchestrated protest effort by the campaign of Democrat presidential nominee Senator Barack Obama
    Kurtz, a conservative writer, recently wrote an article for the National Review that examined Obama's ties to Ayers, a former 1960s radical who helped found a protest group that advocated violence.
    The magazine was blocked in its initial attempts to obtain records from the University of Illinois at Chicago regarding the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, a school reform project that Obama chaired and Ayers co-founded.
    As The Ticket reported here, the school later reserved its position and opened the records Tuesday. Media organizations are poring over scores of boxes of documents to study the Obama-Ayres relationship, which the senator has described as merely casual.
    Obama's campaign is urging supporters to call the radio station to complain. "Tell WGN that by providing Kurtz with airtime, they are legitimizing baseless attacks from a smear-merchant and lowering the standards of political discourse," the note said.
    WGN, like the Chicago Tribune and The Times, is owned by Tribune Co. As a clear-channel station at 720 on the AM dial, WGN's signal reaches dozens of states. Such efforts to prevent programs often backfire by calling even more public attention to the controversy.
    "It is absolutely unacceptable that WGN would give a slimy character assassin like Kurtz time for his divisive, destructive ranting on our public airwaves," the note continued. "At the very least, they should offer sane, honest rebuttal to every one of Kurtz's lies."
    Zack Christenson, executive producer of the longrunning interview program "Extension 720 with Milt Rosenburg," said the response from Obama supporters was strong. Rosenberg like Ayres is a college professor.
    "I would say this is the biggest response we've ever got from a campaign or a candidate," said Christenson. "This is really unprecedented with the show, the way that people are flooding the calls and our email boxes."
    Christenson also stressed that the Obama campaign was invited to send a representative to appear on the show to balance the discussion of the newly-opened documents. But the campaign headquarters just down Michigan Avenue from the station refused the request. This is not the first time Obama's organization has sought to steer supporters to influence a broadcast outlet airing criticism.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Alice
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 11:19 PM

Repeat a lie, repeat a lie, repeat a lie, until some people believe it is truth... pretty much the way the McCain campaign has decided to run their operation.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 11:38 PM

Seems to me, Sawzall, that standing up to liars and those who promote them is an honest thing to do. What you do, contrariwise, is replicate and emulate them. You should really be ashamed at your own lack of moral fiber.



A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Sawzaw
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 12:13 AM

If Mr Obama does not denounce Bill Ayres, he lacks moral fiber.

Where is the lie? Point to the lie.

Fictitious Donors Found in Obama Finance Records

NYT:

Barack Obama received some $40,000 from obviously fictitious donors, the New York Times reports. After poring over both candidates' records, the Times found some 3,000 donations to Obama from more than a dozen people with obviously falsified names —like "Test Person" from "Some Place, UT.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 12:15 AM

He cain't he'p it. He is a Repugnicant. There is a BIG difference between Republicans and Repugnicants. Telling lies and repeating lies is repugnant- when one does that and still calls oneself Republican, that's what one is.

*grin* But not really.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Sawzaw
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 12:23 AM

CROWN POINT, Indiana (CNN) -- More than 2,000 voter registration forms filed in northern Indiana's Lake County by a liberal activist group this week have turned out to be bogus, election officials said Thursday.

The group -- the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, or ACORN -- already faces allegations of filing fraudulent voter registrations in Nevada and faces investigations in other states.

And in Lake County, home to the long-depressed steel town of Gary, the bipartisan Elections Board has stopped processing a stack of about 5,000 applications delivered just before the October 6 registration deadline after the first 2,100 turned out to be phony.

"All the signatures looked exactly the same," Ruthann Hoagland, a Republican on the board. "Everything on the card filled out looks exactly the same."

The forms included registrations submitted in the names of the dead -- and in one case, the name of a fast-food restaurant, Jimmy Johns. Sally LaSota, a Democrat on the board, called the forms fraudulent and said whoever filed them broke the law. Video Watch how dead people are turning up on voter registration forms »

"ACORN, with its intent, perhaps was good in the beginning, but went awry somewhere," LaSota said.

Over the past four years, a dozen states have investigated complaints of fraudulent registrations filed by ACORN. On Tuesday, Nevada authorities raided an ACORN office in Las Vegas, Nevada, where workers are accused of registering members of the Dallas Cowboys football team. And the group has become the target of Republican attacks on voter fraud, a perennial GOP issue.

A subsidiary of the group was paid $800,000 by Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama's campaign to register voters for the 2008 primaries, and ACORN's political wing endorsed Obama back in February. But Obama's campaign told CNN that it "is committed to protecting the integrity of the voting process," and said it has not worked with ACORN during the general election.

Brian Mellor, an ACORN attorney in Boston, said the group has its own quality-control process and has fired workers in the past -- including workers in Gary. But he said allegations that his organization committed fraud is a government attempt to keep people disenfranchised.

"We believe their purpose is to attack ACORN and suppress votes," Mellor said. "We believe that by attacking ACORN, they are going to discourage people that have registered to vote with ACORN from voting."

CNN was unable to reach ACORN officials in Gary and in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, where the group's Indiana operation is based. Offices in both cities were empty when reporters visited.

Lake County elections officials have set aside all 5,000 of the ACORN-submitted applications in what Hoagland called the "fake pile" for later review. But she said every one will be reviewed before the election to make sure no legitimate voters are skipped.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 12:36 AM

Sawzall, why the hail is this not the pertinent part? "A subsidiary of the group was paid $800,000 by Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama's campaign to register voters for the 2008 primaries, and ACORN's political wing endorsed Obama back in February. But Obama's campaign told CNN that it "is committed to protecting the integrity of the voting process," and said it has not worked with ACORN during the general election."

Your view is seriously flawed, man.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Riginslinger
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 09:30 AM

No, the Obama campaign just has no respect for the truth. They're committed to lying. They'd lie when the truth would do them more good.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 10:11 AM

Wave your arms any faster, mate, and you'll take off. You keep positing these crashing derogatory remarks without any regard for specifics or substantiation.

The Fact Check sheets that I have seen indicate that there is a much richer layer of pure bull over the McCain offerings than there is over the Obama campaign's statement, not that either one is rigorously honest. But it is misleading of you to imply by exception that the McCain campaign is less dishonest than the Obama campaign when the opposite is the truth.

If you would care to provide specifics, you would be a lot more credible.

As it is, you sound like a parrot.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Riginslinger
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 11:25 AM

I didn't say I thought the Obama campaign was more misleading than the McCain campaign. I only have to support the McCain side, because I think Obama would be worse for the country than McCain.
                   I wish we had better canididates, but...

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 12:40 PM

You do! Chongo Chimp is running for president too, in case you had forgotten.

Sheesh. Talk about a media blackout.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 02:37 PM

You have yet to specify a single clear factual reason for your conclusion.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 02:43 PM

A 106-year-old American nun living in a convent in Rome could well be the oldest person to vote in the 2008 US Presidential election.
Sister Cecilia Gaudette, who last voted for President Eisenhower in 1952, has registered to vote and says she will vote for Democrat Barack Obama.
Although hard of hearing, she keeps herself informed by reading newspapers and watching TV at the convent.
"I'm encouraged by Senator Obama," she says.
"I've never met him, but he seems to be a good man with a good private life. That's the first thing. Then he must be able to govern," she adds.
Sitting in her modest office in the convent where she has lived for the past 50 years, the diminutive nun appears uninterested in the row inside the American Catholic church over Senator Obama's support for pro-choice policies on abortion.
Asked about her hopes for the US under an Obama presidency, she says: "Peace abroad. I don't worry about the Iraq war because I can't do anything about it. Lord knows how it will end."

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 03:31 PM

Little Hawk, it is my contention that when a worthy cause emerges -but does not succeed in becoming known - the fault lies with the promoter. Perhaps Chongo Chimp has a poor promoter?

:)

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 03:42 PM

Naww...I'll tell you what it is. Specism! Rank specism! (That and the fact that there is not a single chimpanzee who has a controlling interest in any of the main media outlets...which, of course, is again due to endemic specism.)

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Riginslinger
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 04:04 PM

"You have yet to specify a single clear factual reason for your conclusion."


                      Obama seems to have come from nowhere. I have no idea what to expect from him--I know what he says, but he hasn't proven not to follow what he says--campgaign financing is a classic example.
                      So who is behing the publishing and promotion of his books? That seems to have gotten him off and running. And what roll did Rezko and Ayers play in getting him launched, and how many other people were there like those two that we don't know about?

                      He has little experience, a short track record, and seems to be a little shaky on the few things we do know about him.
                      I have to reason to trust him, and a number of reasons to doubt him.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 04:07 PM

Little Hawk, she says patiently, how about his promoter's abilities? Do you lie awake in the dark hours of the night and question your skills? Think, man. You could find yourself responsible for the greatest travesty of modern times.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 04:35 PM

Yo, Rigs,

Yer parroting the Repub PR talking points... And with the blinders that you are wearing you will never know where Obama is from , nor will you ever know what he stands for...

I find it interesting that you have not availed yourself to find those things out about Obama yet you are all over the Rezko and Ayers stuff???

(But, Boberdz... That's what partisans do...)

Yo, Sawz,

So it's Obama who is the one with the lynch mob mentality??? Hmmmmm??? Then why is it that people attending his rallies leave feeling hopeful and people leaving Palin rallies are completely pissed off and want to kill people???

I mean, get real...

Yo, Everbody Else,

I'm still available to endorse McCain should it be of value to Obama...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 05:46 PM

"You could find yourself responsible for the greatest travesty of modern times."

Well....no, I think you overestimate my abilities in that regard, Ebbie. ;-) Think of the competition! I would have to outdo George W. Bush, Woody Allen, and the people who created Reality TV.

As for Chongo, I am not his promoter. I am merely a humble advocate for his campaign because I think he offers a fresh, new approach to politics in America.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 06:38 PM

"As for Chongo, I am not his promoter. I am merely a humble advocate for his campaign because I think he offers a fresh, new approach to politics in America." Little Hawk

Oh ho! Back pedaling, are we?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 07:08 PM

Rig:

I have to echo Bobert's remarks here. You have at your fingertips as much information about Obama as you have about any national politican. You know where he's been -- Harvard, Chicago, etc. You can find his positions and platforms clearly articulated. You can watch him talk and analyze his qualities for yourself. Instead of doing these things, you are erecting a pseudospace filled with talking points and wandering around in it like a blind cat in a coal cellar. Tsk.



A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Riginslinger
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 09:12 PM

"Tsk."


                Voting for Obama is like trying to sight in a rifle without a bead on the end of the barrel. You're liable to end up shooting your best red-bone hound.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 02:17 AM

Obama has denounced Ayres. Why don't people who keep going on and on about Ayres, actually take the time to look up some facts for a change?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 04:27 AM

Obama got his first book deal because of being the first African American to be president of the Harvard Law Review. That brought him to the attention of someone in the publishing industry, who offered him a book deal. After the book was published, it got warm reviews, but didn't make much money, so it didn't go anywhere. A new edition was published about ten years later after Obama won the Democratic primary for his Senate seat in 2004.

He's got more history than most people know about. But a lot of people don't bother to find things out.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 06:41 AM

"the Obama campaign just has no respect for the truth. They're committed to lying. They'd lie when the truth would do them more good. "

" not that either one is rigorously honest. But it is misleading of you to imply by exception that the McCain campaign is less dishonest than the Obama campaign when the opposite is the truth."




Who is being misleading, using a strawman arguement???

Bad Amos!

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 07:25 AM

Washington Post:


The World Vote

Barack Obama is almost universally favored over John McCain outside the United States. Should that matter to Americans?

Monday, October 13, 2008; Page A20

BY NOW it is well known that if the rest of the world had a vote, Barack Obama would be the next U.S. president. Polls and studies by the Pew foundation, BBC and the Gallup organization have shown that Europeans, Latin Americans, Africans and Asians not only favor Mr. Obama overwhelmingly over John McCain but believe he will improve U.S. relations with the rest of the world. Americans seem to be attracted by such findings; polls here show that many voters are concerned about the deterioration of U.S. prestige during the Bush administration and want the next president to restore it. This invites a question: If Mr. Obama were elected, how likely would he be to fulfill those high expectations? And could he really deliver results that are beyond the grasp of Mr. McCain? The answer is not as obvious as the survey results suggest.

One caveat comes in the report of the Pew Global Attitudes Project, which points out that Obamamania is largely absent in the region where U.S. influence most needs a boost: the Middle East. Only 34 percent of Lebanese, 31 percent of Egyptians and 22 percent of Jordanians said they have confidence in Mr. Obama to do the right thing in world affairs; in Pakistan the figure was 10 percent. Israel is one of the few countries in the world where at least some polls have shown Mr. McCain leading Mr. Obama. Many Israelis fear that Mr. Obama will be too soft on Iran; many Arabs predict that he will be too soft on Israel. The new administration, whether that of Mr. Obama or Mr. McCain, may have to accept anti-Americanism in Pakistan as the price of staying on the offensive against al-Qaeda and the Taliban.

Mr. Obama's huge popularity in Western Europe -- his favorable ratings are over 80 percent in France and Germany -- seems to reflect an expectation that the Democrat would reverse the policies of President Bush. But Mr. Obama favors sending large numbers of additional troops to Afghanistan, while public opinion in every NATO country but Britain favors withdrawal. At the governmental level, some senior officials in Germany, France and Britain say that they object to Mr. Obama's plan to pursue negotiations with Iran unconditionally; the European policy has been to require Tehran first to suspend work on its nuclear program. Both Mr. Obama and Mr. McCain are likely to alleviate two of the largest irritants in U.S.-European relations by closing the Guantanamo Bay prison and adopting a serious program to combat climate change.

The outpouring of enthusiasm for Mr. Obama in places such as Berlin -- where a smaller share of people say they have favorable views of the United States than in Russia or China -- seems to reflect a longing to repair a broken relationship. An Obama presidency offers the possibility of building on those sentiments. Mr. McCain would have to start cold. Neither may have a good chance of obtaining more European troops for Afghanistan or major new sanctions against Iran. But on the intangible but critical question of American prestige and the willingness to accept U.S. leadership that comes with it, Mr. Obama has more to offer.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 08:33 AM

Why don't people look at the facts? Isn't that a rather extreme suggestion?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 08:42 AM

It seems to me that facts are hard to come by.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 08:44 AM

Which "facts"? The ones in the pro-Obama sources, or the ones in the anti-Obama sources?

Both sides are claiming the other is lying- so who do we believe? The one who has spent more money in his campaign? The one who is saying what we want to hear?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 09:47 AM

At this point, according to RCP's aggregate polls, every one of the key battleground states with the exception of Missouri are tilting noticeably toward Obama. I think we are possibly going to see a landslide in his favor come November. Wouldn't much mind if we did, either. 'Course, there's still room for the Bushies to pull their October surprise, declare martial law and ruin the whole movie. WOuldn't put it past 'em, either.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 12:47 PM

Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 email | print | tool nameclose
tool goes here
Daring to utter the 'L' word: Obama on track to a landslide
More on this Story
Story | McConnell's Kentucky race tightens over bailout vote
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Story | Science platforms offer similar goals but different paths
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Graphic | The electoral vote count and the balance of power
PDF | Issues: Obama & McCain
On the Web | Complete McClatchy election coverage

View larger image
By Steven Thomma | McClatchy Newspapers
WASHINGTON — Barring a dramatic change in the political landscape over the next three weeks, Democrats appear headed toward a decisive victory on Election Day that would give them broad power over the federal government.

The victory would send Barack Obama to the White House and give him larger Democratic majorities in both the House of Representatives and the Senate — and perhaps a filibuster-proof margin there.

That could mark a historic realignment of the country's politics on a scale with 1932 or 1980, when the out party was given power it held for a generation, and used it to transform government's role in American society.

Obama, a 47-year-old first-term senator from Illinois, is now well positioned to win the Electoral College. He's comfortably holding most of the "blue" states that went for Democrats Al Gore and John Kerry in past elections, polls show, and he's gaining momentum to take away several "red" states that have voted Republican in recent elections, including Florida, Ohio, Colorado and Virginia.

The Democrats are also widely expected to take big gains in House and Senate races. Like Obama, they're reaching deep into once solid Republican territory. Even such stalwarts as North Carolina Sen. Elizabeth Dole and Kentucky Sen. Mitch McConnell, the Senate Republican leader, could be in jeopardy.

Building on the Democrats' sweeping wins two years ago when they seized control of both chambers of Congress, big gains this year would be reminiscent of the Republican gains in 1978 and 1980 that delivered "the Reagan Revolution."

Former Reagan political adviser Ed Rollins likened today's landscape to that in 1980, when voters were angry at President Jimmy Carter and the Democrats and turned to Reagan in droves once they felt comfortable with the idea of him as president.

"Barack has met the threshold," Rollins said. "Once Reagan met the threshold, people wanted to get rid of Carter and they did in a landslide. This is going to turn into a landslide."

Democrats already had a political advantage heading into the fall campaign, with just 9 percent of Americans thinking the country's on the right track, the lowest ever recorded. President Bush's approval rating this week was only a point higher than Richard Nixon's on the day he was forced to resign from office, reflecting voter anger at Republicans as the party controlling the White House.

Add the collapse of stock prices and anxiety about the economy, and polls show public opinion surging in favor of Democrats.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 01:31 PM

Monday, October 13, 2008
BARONE: The coming liberal thugocracy
Michael Barone
COMMENTARY:

"I need you to go out and talk to your friends and talk to your neighbors," Barack Obama told a crowd in Elko, Nev. "I want you to talk to them whether they are independent or whether they are Republican. I want you to argue with them and get in their face." Actually, Obama supporters are doing a lot more than getting into people's faces. They seem determined to shut people up.

That's what Obama supporters, alerted by campaign e-mails, did when conservative Stanley Kurtz appeared on Milt Rosenberg's WGN radio program in Chicago. Mr. Kurtz had been researching Mr. Obama's relationship with unrepentant Weather Underground terrorist William Ayers in Chicago Annenberg Challenge papers in the Richard J. Daley Library in Chicago - papers that were closed off to him for some days, apparently at the behest of Obama supporters.

Obama fans jammed WGN's phone lines and sent in hundreds of protest e-mails. The message was clear to anyone who would follow Mr. Rosenberg's example. We will make trouble for you if you let anyone make the case against The One.

Other Obama supporters have threatened critics with criminal prosecution. In September, St. Louis County Circuit Attorney Bob McCulloch and St. Louis City Circuit Attorney Jennifer Joyce warned citizens that they would bring criminal libel prosecutions against anyone who made statements against Mr. Obama that were "false." I had been under the impression that the Alien and Sedition Acts had gone out of existence in 1801-'02. Not so, apparently, in metropolitan St. Louis. Similarly, the Obama campaign called for a criminal investigation of the American Issues Project when it ran ads highlighting Mr. Obama's ties to Mr. Ayers.

These attempts to shut down political speech have become routine for liberals. Congressional Democrats sought to reimpose the "fairness doctrine" on broadcasters, which until it was repealed in the 1980s required equal time for different points of view. The motive was plain: to shut down the one conservative-leaning communications medium, talk radio. Liberal talk-show hosts have mostly failed to draw audiences, and many liberals can't abide having citizens hear contrary views.

To their credit, some liberal old-timers - like House Appropriations Chairman David Obey - voted against the "fairness doctrine," in line with their longstanding support of free speech. But you can expect the "fairness doctrine" to get another vote if Barack Obama wins and Democrats increase their congressional majorities.

Corporate liberals have done their share in shutting down anti-liberal speech, too. "Saturday Night Live" ran a spoof of the financial crisis that skewered Democrats like House Financial Services Chairman Barney Frank and liberal contributors Herbert and Marion Sandler, who sold toxic-waste-filled Golden West to Wachovia Bank for $24 billion. Kind of surprising, but not for long. The tape of the broadcast disappeared from NBC's Web site and was replaced with another that omitted the references to Mr. Frank and the Sandlers. Evidently NBC and its parent, General Electric, don't want people to hear speech that attacks liberals.

Then there's the Democrats' "card check" legislation that would abolish secret ballot elections in determining whether employees are represented by unions. The unions' strategy is obvious: Send a few thugs over to employees' homes - we know where you live - and get them to sign cards that will trigger a union victory without giving employers a chance to be heard.

Once upon a time, liberals prided themselves, with considerable reason, as the staunchest defenders of free speech. Union organizers in the 1930s and 1940s made the case that they should have access to employees to speak freely to them, and union leaders like George Meany and Walter Reuther were ardent defenders of the First Amendment.

Today's liberals seem to be taking their marching orders from other quarters. Specifically, from the college and university campuses where administrators, armed with speech codes, have for years been disciplining and subjecting to sensitivity training any students who dare to utter thoughts that liberals find offensive. The campuses that once prided themselves as zones of free expression are now the least free part of our society.

Obama supporters who found the campuses congenial and Mr. Obama himself, who has chosen to live all his adult life in university communities, seem to find it entirely natural to suppress speech they don't like and seem utterly oblivious to claims this violates the letter and spirit of the First Amendment. In this campaign, we have seen the coming of the Obama thugocracy, suppressing free speech, and we may see its flourishing in the four or eight years ahead.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 01:39 PM

that they would bring criminal libel prosecutions against anyone who made statements against Mr. Obama that were "false."

What's your definition of libel, BB?

As I recall it has to do with making false statements of defamatory nature abouot someone. Because it is harmful, it has gradually been proscribed by law. Correct?

Or do you thing people should be encouraged to break the law?

There's a large difference between free speech and the freedom to defame and libel irresponsibly. Speech intends to communicate.

A


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 02:03 PM

< Back to Front Page Text size – + Obama gets newspapers' support
Email|Link|Comments (4) Posted by Foon Rhee, deputy national political editor October 13, 2008 12:14 PM
Over the last few days, Democrat Barack Obama racked up a bevy of newspaper endorsements that, as much as they praised him, soured on Republican John McCain.

"We believe the person best equipped by temperament and intellect to firmly grasp the reins of government and guide it safely forward in these uncertain times is Barack Obama," said the Toledo Blade.

The St. Louis Post-Dispatch opined that Obama "has emerged as the only truly transformative candidate in the race. In the crucible that is a presidential campaign, his intellect, his temperament and equanimity under pressure consistently have been impressive. He has surrounded himself with smart, capable advisers who have helped him refine thorough, nuanced policy positions. In a word, Mr. Obama has been presidential."

"Meanwhile, Mr. McCain, the senior senator from Arizona, became the incredible shrinking man," the Post-Dispatch added. "He shrank from his principled stands in favor of a humane immigration policy. He shrank from his universal condemnation of torture and his condemnation of the politics of smear. He even shrank from his own campaign slogan, 'County First,' by selecting the least qualified running mate since the Swedenborgian shipbuilder Arthur Sewall ran as William Jennings Bryan's No. 2 in 1896."

The Dayton Daily News complained that "Sen. McCain's campaign has been as disappointing as his move toward party orthodoxy. More than his opponent, he has run a relentless stream of commercials that have been discredited by nonpartisan fact-checkers. (Last week, all his ads were negative.) He has articulated no vision for the country other than to suggest that it should believe in him as an individual, as a war hero of independent judgment. His selection of Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin as his running mate was stunning. She is shockingly lacking in presidential qualifications. Some of Sen. McCain's most enthusiastic supporters have been forced to admit this. Her defenders say her resume compares well with Sen. Obama's, but it does not… [I]n a time of change, Sen. Obama is the more promising leader. With his agile mind, often pitch-perfect judgment and preternatural calm and self-confidence, he seems built for the job of sorting through this thing, if anybody can."

The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the State Journal in Madison, Wisc., were among other papers backing Obama.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 02:13 PM

One of the early tests of Barack Obama's political skills came when he was a law student at Harvard University in the late 1980s and early 1990s.

Gaining the support of both progressive and conservative editors, Mr. Obama was selected as the first black president of the Harvard Law Review. He had decided to seek the post believing that he might help ease ideological tensions at the journal even as the campus was embroiled in divisive doctrinal and political debates over issues like faculty diversity.

The uproar included the protests of Derrick A. Bell Jr., the first black professor to win tenure at the law school, who took an unpaid leave of absence and eventually resigned over the lack of a tenured black woman on its faculty.

In the midst of those battles, Mr. Obama presided over difficult debates among intellectuals with wildly different and intensely held views. Yet he was able to set an amicable tone at the journal, according to Charles J. Ogletree Jr., a Harvard law professor who taught Mr. Obama and served as his mentor.

Mr. Ogletree and others who have known Mr. Obama, now a U.S. senator from Illinois, say his record at Harvard provides an indication of how he might govern as president.

The editors of the law journal "saw him as a coalescing force around which they could come together and do high-quality work," Mr. Ogletree says. "He was able to gently steer them without anyone feeling compromised or undermined in their views."...
Chronicle of Higher Education

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 05:00 PM

Frank Schaeffer publishes the definitive article on Barack Obama at the Huffington Post site.

An excerpt:

" say this as a white, former life-long Republican. I say this as the proud father of a Marine. I say this as just another American watching his pension evaporate along with the stock market! I speak as someone who knows it's time to forget party loyalty, ideology and pride and put the country first. I say this as someone happy to be called a fool for going out on a limb and declaring that, 1) Obama will win, and 2) he is going to be amongst the greatest of American presidents.

Obama is our last best chance. He's worth laying it all on the line for.

This is a man who in the age of greed took the high road of community service. This is the good father and husband. This is the humble servant. This is the patient teacher. This is the scholar statesman. This is the man of deep Christian faith.

Good stories about Obama abound; from his personal relationship with his Secret Service agents (he invites them into his home to watch sports, and shoots hoops with them) to the story about how, more than twenty years ago, while standing in the check-in line at an airport, Obama paid a $100 baggage surcharge for a stranger who was broke and stuck. (Obama was virtually penniless himself in those days.) Years later after he became a senator, that stranger recognized Obama's picture and wrote to him to thank him. She received a kindly note back from the senator. (The story only surfaced because the person, who lives in Norway, told a local newspaper after Obama ran for the presidency. The paper published a photograph of this lady proudly displaying Senator Obama's letter.)

Where many leaders are two-faced; publicly kindly but privately feared and/or hated by people closest to them, Obama is consistent in the way he treats people, consistently kind and personally humble. He lives by the code that those who lead must serve. He believes that. He lives it. He lived it long before he was in the public eye.

Obama puts service ahead of ideology. He also knows that to win politically you need to be tough. He can be. He has been. This is a man who does what works, rather than scoring ideological points. In other words he is the quintessential non-ideological pragmatic American. He will (thank God!) disappoint ideologues and purists of the left and the right."