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BS: Popular Views on Obama
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Bobert Date: 09 Dec 07 - 08:42 PM BTW, folks... I haven't been too keen on the various campaigns and therefore haven't said much of anything about any of them other than a few comments about Dennis Kucinich... Dennis and Barak are the only two candidates, IMHO, who can bring about the "cultural" changes that the American people need to go thru in order for the country to move toward stable ground... Thwe others, except perhaps Bill Richardson, John Edwards included, don't give US much real opportunity to make a serious mid-course correction so... ... if Obama wins the nomination I will take off some time and either head up or work in his campaign in Page County, Va... Of course if Dennis wins, it's a simple as... ...ABC which of course means... ...Anyone But Clinton... I like Obama/Richradson myself... Richarson can deliver 2 or three SW states and that is enough to beat out the Repubs... If Virgina goes Dem, and maybe Florida, then it'll look like a landslide next November... But forget that stuff... Obama is just okay with me... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Amos Date: 10 Dec 07 - 10:22 AM Obama's American Idea Save Share Del.icio.us Digg Newsvine Permalink By ROGER COHEN Published: December 10, 2007 I asked Senator Barack Obama if he's tough enough for a dangerous world. Sometimes the Democratic candidate treads so carefully, and looks so vulnerable to a gust of wind, that the question of whether his legal mind can get lethal arises. Skip to next paragraph Roger Cohen Go to Columnist Page » Blog: Passages "Yes, I'm tough enough," he responded during a half-hour conversation. "What I've always found is people who talk about how tough they are aren't the tough ones. I'm less interested in beating my chest and rattling my saber and more in making decisions that build a safer and more secure world." Obama, speaking less than a month before the Iowa caucus on Jan. 3, continued: "We can and should lead the world, but we have to apply wisdom and judgment. Part of our capacity to lead is linked to our capacity to show restraint." That was striking: an enduring belief in U.S. leadership coupled with a commitment to, as he also put it, acting "with a sense of humility." Skepticism about the American idea and American global stewardship has grown fast during the Bush years. ..(T)his has led some to conclude that the world would be better off if America slunk home. As Joyce Carol Oates wrote in The Atlantic: "How heartily sick the world has grown, in the first seven years of the 21st century, of the American idea!" It has become a "cruel joke." If a global survey were taken, that might prove to be a minority opinion, but I doubt it. Still, Obama stands by the universality of the American proposition: life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness under a constitutional government of limited powers. "I believe in American exceptionalism," he told me, but not one based on "our military prowess or our economic dominance." Rather, he insisted, "our exceptionalism must be based on our Constitution, our principles, our values and our ideals. We are at our best when we are speaking in a voice that captures the aspirations of people across the globe." .."Nowhere in American history has the gulf between ideals and sordid practice been greater than on questions of race. It is precisely the gulf between high principle — not least habeas corpus — and unprincipled actions that has done the most damage to America's image in recent years. Once again, Obama appears to bridge and reconcile. "We can't entirely remake the world," he told me. "What we can do is lead by example." Put him in and let him roll. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Peter Kasin Date: 11 Dec 07 - 02:35 AM Rig - Is your concern mainly over Obama's particular church, or concern over how his beliefs inform his views on separation of church and state? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Amos Date: 11 Dec 07 - 10:07 AM "It's clear that voters are not only exhausted by the war, they are exhausted by the war over the war. On the Democratic side, Obama captured the mood exactly with his Jefferson-Jackson Day speech of a few weeks ago. In that speech, he asked voters to reject fear, partisanship and textbook politics. He asked them to vote instead on the basis of their aspirations for a new era of national unity. As a result, Obama has pulled ahead in Iowa and approached parity in New Hampshire. " (TImes editorial) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: GUEST,mg Date: 11 Dec 07 - 03:04 PM I think he does best when he just is natural and doesn't try for grand oratory..especially the loud passionate kind. The only problem I have with him is international..I just don't know..I think for the country domestically he would be outstanding. Let his policy wonk side shine through along with natural eloquance..understated preferably. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Riginslinger Date: 11 Dec 07 - 03:10 PM "Is your concern mainly over Obama's particular church, or concern over how his beliefs inform his views on separation of church and state?" The concept of a separation of church and state seems to be disappearing. Obama isn't the worst candidate on this issue, but he isn't the best either. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Amos Date: 11 Dec 07 - 03:21 PM Frankly, I would rather have Obama's surprises when he has to deal with foreign policy issues, than I would Hillary's surprises; because I believe hers will be much more discreditable than his. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Riginslinger Date: 11 Dec 07 - 04:02 PM I'm joining the group that's trying to draft Lou Dobbs for president. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 11 Dec 07 - 04:09 PM Just about anybody is going to be an amazing improvement on what you've got now, anyway. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Riginslinger Date: 11 Dec 07 - 04:18 PM That's true, McGrath. That's very true! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Bill D Date: 11 Dec 07 - 04:29 PM Yes...'almost' anyone would be an improvement. I could certainly be comfortable with trusting Obama to lead and make thoughtful decisions. But, that being said, I could be reasonably comfortable with any of the top 4 Democratic candidates...including Biden, though I admit that he has no chance. I am more & more impressed with Edwards in the one-on-one interviews I have seen, even though his 'speeches' lack a little. ....and, unlike many, I am NOT against Hillary Clinton. I judge all candidates more by what I see of them in informal interviews, and she is no dummy and is quick-witted and knowledgeable, and despite not being absolutely clear about immigration...(and who IS?..or can be?), she is within my tolerances on most issues. ...If I had to vote, right now, I'd probably give it to Obama by a few points...but no more. He IS just coming up to speed on many issues and needs, despite his 'outsider' claims, a base in Washington and a pool of competent folks for appointments. I would REALLY like to see a list of individuals he might appoint to cabinet and other positions, as I consider that to be as important an issues as the presidency. We shall see....I just wish ALL of them would stop sniping at EACH OTHER! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Amos Date: 11 Dec 07 - 04:46 PM I agree Bill. And sometimes I kinda get all dreamy and imagine what the world would be like if pigs could fly, too! :D A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 11 Dec 07 - 05:23 PM All the sniping in the world between politicians never gets in the wayu of the losers accepting jobs from the winner, and the winner offering jobs to the losers, when that proves convenient. It's not quite shadow-boxing, but it tends to be closer to sparring than to a real fight. Onlookers and bystanders and hangers on and outsiders take this kind of battling much more seriously than the actual participants. In all political systems (except those where they do actually kill each other, such as the Mafia - and even there they make deals.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: beardedbruce Date: 13 Dec 07 - 02:19 PM A Dud From Team Clinton By Robert D. Novak Thursday, December 13, 2007; Page A35 David Axelrod, the seasoned Chicago Democratic operative who is chief strategist for Sen. Barack Obama's presidential campaign, was taken by surprise in the last minute of CBS's "Face the Nation" on Dec. 2. Howard Wolfson, Sen. Hillary Clinton's spokesman, accused Obama of running a "slush fund." In fact, the Clinton campaign was spreading that story privately months ago. Last summer, a senior Clinton aide told a famous Democrat believed to favor Obama that the Illinois senator was using his "leadership" political action committee to spread money around the country to grease his presidential prospects. That message was private when Clinton seemed far ahead in the race for the Democratic nomination. It became public when Obama threatened to overtake her. Before Wolfson spoke out, one of Clinton's close supporters was spreading word of unspecified defects in Obama that should deter Democrats from supporting him. This is the Clinton style that has proved effective for two decades, but Obama has continued to close the gap. This attack mode works best when the accusations are hidden from public view. Last summer, a few Clinton insiders -- headed by her Senate chief of staff, Tamera Luzzatto -- paid a presumably social visit to the Cape Cod, Mass., vacation home of a prestigious Democrat reported to be in Obama's corner. Luzzatto warned that Obama was ethically challenged because of his leadership PAC. My sources indicated that this was not an isolated incident and that the slush-fund story was spread widely. A month ago, a Democrat close to Clinton, though not on her Senate or campaign staff, approached a party activist who has not made a commitment to a candidate with this message: Skeletons in Obama's closet would make him vulnerable if nominated. He did not elaborate and said that the Clinton campaign would keep its anti-Obama information to itself, remembering mutually destructive assaults between Howard Dean and Dick Gephardt in 2004 that facilitated John Kerry's nomination. The Clinton campaign denied all this, claiming it was a Republican plot. In truth, there was no Republican source for this story. In the wake of these denials, Wolfson made his slush-fund accusation on "Face the Nation" shortly after polls showed Obama passing Clinton for the lead in Iowa's Jan. 3 caucuses: "There's a lot that voters don't know about Barack Obama," said Wolfson, "and one thing that they don't know we found out this week, which is that he has been using and operating a so-called leadership PAC in apparent contravention of campaign finance laws." Wolfson demanded that Axelrod say whether he would "shut down Sen. Obama's slush fund." With only 20 seconds left, Axelrod's answer sounded lame: "I think it is shut down, Howard. . . . I don't know that there's any money left in it." With more time, Axelrod might have noted that Obama's PAC contributed to Clinton's 2006 Senate reelection and, in the current cycle, to Jeanne Shaheen's Senate campaign in New Hampshire, even though her husband, Bill Shaheen, heads that state's Clinton campaign. The "slush fund" just did not measure up to claims of dark improprieties on the part of Obama, and the Clinton campaign did not pursue the issue after volleys were exchanged between the candidates. The attack strategy has not affected Obama, and Clinton's aura of inevitability is fading. Not only has she fallen behind in Iowa, but polls show that primaries in New Hampshire and South Carolina are too close to call. Howard Dean was in a much stronger position in post-Iowa primaries in 2004 than Clinton is today when his third-place finish in Iowa was followed by his national collapse. The phrase "slush fund" is a hoary part of American politics, dating to a $5 million appropriation in 1874 administered by the federal Treasury, according to "Safire's New Political Dictionary." In 1952, contributions to a slush fund for the use of vice presidential candidate Richard M. Nixon nearly forced him off the Republican ticket. When Hillary Clinton started slipping two weeks ago, her campaign responded by unlimbering the Obama slush fund. The fact that this bomb proved pretty much a dud raises doubt about the whispers of impropriety by this untried candidate. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Riginslinger Date: 13 Dec 07 - 02:54 PM Anyone who knows Novac will instantly realise he thinks Obama would make an easer target for a Republican in the general election than Clinton would. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Bill D Date: 13 Dec 07 - 03:17 PM so...what are we supposed to make of all those innuendos and vague accusations, BB? Pieces of 'information' like that C&P are barely more than piling on dirt. I HATE reading 'suggestive' articles that have little substance. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: beardedbruce Date: 13 Dec 07 - 07:39 PM Clinton adviser out after Obama comment By PHILIP ELLIOTT, Associated Press Writer 44 minutes ago CONCORD, N.H. - A top campaign adviser to Hillary Rodham Clinton resigned Thursday, a day after suggesting Democrats should be wary of nominating Barack Obama because his teenage drug use could make it hard for him to win the presidency. Clinton herself apologized to Obama as they waited to fly to Iowa for a debate. Obama's campaign sent out a fundraising letter contending that "this kind of attack is becoming a pattern as Clinton's support declines." Bill Shaheen, a national co-chairman for Clinton and a prominent New Hampshire political figure, had raised the issue of Obama's youthful drug use during a Wednesday interview, published on washingtonpost.com. "I made a mistake and in light of what happened, I have made the personal decision that I will step down as the co-chair of the Hillary for President campaign," Shaheen said in a statement released by the campaign Thursday. "This election is too important, and we must all get back to electing the best qualified candidate who has the record of making change happen in this country. That candidate is Hillary Clinton." Shaheen, an attorney and veteran organizer, had said much of Obama's background is unknown and could be a problem in November 2008 if he is the Democratic nominee. He said Republicans would work hard to discover new aspects of Obama's admittedly spotty youth. "It'll be, 'When was the last time? Did you ever give drugs to anyone? Did you sell them to anyone?'" said Shaheen, whose wife, Jeanne, is a former New Hampshire governor and is running for the U.S. Senate next year. "There are so many openings for Republican dirty tricks. It's hard to overcome," Shaheen said. Clinton personally apologized to Obama when they were on the tarmac at Washington's Reagan National Airport Thursday morning, preparing to fly to Des Moines for a debate, according to aides to both candidates. "Having been on the receiving end of unfair attacks for years, she doesn't think this is what the campaign should be about," said Clinton spokesman Jay Carson. "She told him she wanted to win the presidency, but not through tactics like that." Clinton's campaign said it had nothing to do with Shaheen's earlier comments. However, Ned Helms, an Obama co-chairman in New Hampshire, said he saw a pattern after the recent resignations of two Clinton volunteer coordinators in Iowa who had forwarded e-mails raising questions about Obama's religion. "When you see a pattern of people making statements and the follow-up statement, 'Oh, that wasn't authorized,' it doesn't take a genius to see that there's a thread going on here," Helms said. And the Obama campaign sent a fundraising e-mail to supporters asking for donations to help fight such tactics. "The only way to stop these kinds of tired, desperate attacks is to demonstrate very clearly that they have a real cost to Senator Clinton's campaign," campaign manager David Plouffe wrote. "Make no mistake — this kind of attack is becoming a pattern as Clinton's support declines." Obama wrote about his teenage drug use in his memoir, "Dreams from My Father." His rivals have largely remained silent on the subject. "Junkie. Pothead. That's where I'd been headed: the final fatal role of the young would-be black man," Obama wrote. Mostly he smoked marijuana and drank alcohol, he wrote, but occasionally he would snort cocaine when he could afford it. New polling shows Clinton and Obama basically tied in New Hampshire. A CNN-WMUR-TV poll conducted by the University of New Hampshire shows Clinton at 31 percent support, Obama at 30. The same poll had Obama trailing by 20 points in September. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Riginslinger Date: 13 Dec 07 - 10:45 PM "...two Clinton volunteer coordinators in Iowa who had forwarded e-mails raising questions about Obama's religion." That's where I'd go if I wanted to attack Obama. The Swift Boaters will start using his middle name every time they mention him in an ad. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: mg Date: 14 Dec 07 - 01:41 AM If you are calling people Swift Boaters and using it in a bad way you are no better than other attackers. mg |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Amos Date: 14 Dec 07 - 09:37 AM Well, mg, the Swift Boaters created a pretty scuzzy reputation for themselves as slandrers-for-hire who had low regard for the truth. Their tactics were so egregious that the term has become adopted in the national jargon of slang for such underhanded PR manuvers. Maybe, therefore, they are inheriting the wind as they sowed, so to speak. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Riginslinger Date: 14 Dec 07 - 06:26 PM Maybe we could call them the Swift-Boat-Swindlers or something, so we don't get them mixed up with folks who were just trying to perform their duty. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: beardedbruce Date: 14 Dec 07 - 06:46 PM http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/swift.asp |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Riginslinger Date: 14 Dec 07 - 09:06 PM If there isn't another side to this argument, then I will cite the earlier reference to political actuaries trying to nominate someone they knew even George W. Bush could beat. They had their game plan laid out before the Democratic primary in Iowa. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Ron Davies Date: 14 Dec 07 - 11:13 PM Rig-- "took Howard Dean out of contention". Again you prove your amazing grasp of political realities. Howard Dean would have been a total disaster. The Bush "team" was salivating at the prospect of the good old tried- and- true smear campaign against Dean--"soft on natioanal security". It took quite some doing to paint a Vietnam hero as soft on national security. Harder to do it with Howard Dean?--what are you smoking? Please enlighten us as to why Dean would have been seen as stronger on national security than Kerry. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Ron Davies Date: 14 Dec 07 - 11:14 PM "national" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Riginslinger Date: 14 Dec 07 - 11:47 PM Ron - Howard Dean was an alternative to George W. Bush. Kerry was Bush light. The voters had no choice and that's exactly what the power brokers wanted. They would win with Ketchup, or they would win with oil. They would lose with compassion and having an honest man in the White House, so they did what they had to do to win. Ron - Now that Rupert Murdoch has taken over the Wall Street Journal, do yourself a favor and quit reading it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Peter Kasin Date: 15 Dec 07 - 03:23 AM I share your alarm over the general blurring of separation of church and state at high levels. I don't know if Obama has issued a statement on that, but from what I know from his speeches and writings on a myriad of issues, my gut feeling is that his religion informs him on a very personal level, but the constitution and bill of rights inform him on a governmental level and come first. I'd like to hear all the candidates speak on this issue, though. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Riginslinger Date: 15 Dec 07 - 07:42 AM For a number of Republicans, Huckabee for instance, lack of separation is a very good thing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Ron Davies Date: 15 Dec 07 - 02:26 PM Rig-- As usual, you've not answered the question. It's obvious to any politically aware person that in 2004, the #1 topic was national security--esp the "war on terror". So please tell us exactly why Dean would be seen as stronger on national security than a Vietnam war hero. Be specific please. A transparently false and facile remark about "Bush lite" doesn't cut it. Thanks. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Riginslinger Date: 15 Dec 07 - 04:36 PM Ron - With Kerry on board we had a race between oil and ketchup. It was obviously a fix, or the Bush campaign would have hit upon the idea of talking about the 57 varieties of John Kerry. They didn't, so we know there was something up with that. Dean, on the other hand, offered a change from buffoonery. Kerry thought he could promote himself as a war hero, but he walked into the onslaught of the swift-boaters. It was like they saw it coming--they knew where Kerry was going before Kerry did. The race was only about national security because Kerry's people made it about national security, and then didn't even write any ads about George Bush being AWOL from the air national guard. Frankly, I don't see any way Dean could have done worse, and I think he would have done better. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Amos Date: 15 Dec 07 - 04:52 PM Kerry was not in any way Bush Light. Look at their track records during the Vietnam war. Anyway, Obama has something that none of the Bush and Clinton eras had enough of, which is personal intelligence combined with character. Bill was smart as all get out, but he was (I think) opportunistic. And I think his wife is more so. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Bobert Date: 15 Dec 07 - 05:25 PM Well, I believe that Howard Dean not onlyscared the crap outta the Repubs but also the media, which was primed to jump on him.... And jump they did for what??? Oh yeah... ***The Scream*** Anyone heard George Bush when he gets fired up... He makes Howard Dean sound a mute... Yeah, Howard Dean was, xcontray to the Repubs sayin' they wanted him, an outsider... It seems that outsiders do well in presidental elections... Jimmy Carter was an outsider.. Ronald Reagan was an ousider... Bush I was an insider... Clinton was an outsider... Bush II was an outsider... So that makes 4 out of the last 5 presidents outsiders!?!?!?... The two folks running well in Iowa, Obama and Hucklebee are outsiders... Yeah, make no bones about it, the Repubs didn't want any part of Dean... They knew what to expect from Kerry which, with the help of the Sift Boaters, is about what they got... Outsiders are like left handed fighters... Ya never know quite what to do with them because if you jump on them too hard you get branded a Washington Insider bully and if you don't jump on them hard enough they get the attention of the voters... Just MO, of course... Obama/Richardson in '08 and I'll not work for the Green Party and will work for the Dems... Yuck!!! Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Bobert Date: 15 Dec 07 - 05:29 PM ...ahhhhhh, or Obama/Webb... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Riginslinger Date: 15 Dec 07 - 06:24 PM Bobert - I see it pretty much the way you do. The establishment didn't want Dean on the ticket. They knew they could handle either Bush or Kerry. The didn't want Dean because he might actually spend money to do something good for the people. I think I'll stick with the Greens, though. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Bobert Date: 15 Dec 07 - 07:13 PM Yeah, Rigs... I understand what you are sayin'... I supported, voted for and campaigned for the Green Party forever and it's real tough for me to work with the Dems... But if Obama gets the nod, I'm gonna work for him... No, he ain't quite Green Party material but he'd be the best president since Jimmy Carter whi, IMO, was the last man of morals to hold the office... Yeah, the establishment "Deaned" Jimmy Carter because he was so anti-establishment and I fully expect the establishmne tot try to "Dean" Obama but Obama is a young man with more than a few tricks of his own... He'll be fine... If ya' change yer mind, Rigs, then come on in...The water is just right... If not, of all the folks here, I'll fully understand... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Amos Date: 16 Dec 07 - 01:59 AM "But it just may be possible that the single biggest boost to the Obama campaign is not white liberal self-congratulation or the Clinton campÕs self-immolation, but the collective nastiness of the Republican field. Just when you think the tone canÕt get any uglier, it does. Last week Mike Huckabee, who only recently stood out for his kind words about illegal immigrants, accepted an endorsement from a founder of the Minutemen, whose approach to stopping the Òillegal alien invasionÓ has been embraced by white supremacists and who have been condemned as ÒvigilantesÓ by President Bush. For those Americans looking for the most unambiguous way to repudiate politicians who are trying to divide the country by faith, ethnicity, sexuality and race, Mr. Obama is nothing if not the most direct shot. After hearing someone like Mitt Romney preach his narrow, exclusionist idea of ÒFaith in America,Ó some Americans may simply see a vote for Mr. Obama as a vote for faith in America itself." NY Times |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Bobert Date: 16 Dec 07 - 10:51 AM How do you make them funny "O' things, Amos??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Amos Date: 16 Dec 07 - 12:09 PM I don't know what funny O things you mean, Bobez. The last post I made looks perfectly normal on my screen. If you need to make accented characters, see the on-line HTML guide or the table on this page for how to compose accented characters. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Bobert Date: 16 Dec 07 - 12:29 PM What's HTML??? And I could go with Obama/Amos, also... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Riginslinger Date: 20 Dec 07 - 05:46 PM So now Bob Kerrey is out doing the dirty work for Hillary. In a very nice way, he mentioned that Obama's father is Muslim, that his middle name is Hussein, and that his paternal grandmother is Muslim as well. Then they let that information swirl around in the press for a day or so, and then they mention the entire thing all over again while generating an apology. So all the information is in the news again for another 48 hours or so. All of this was done in the form of a compliment. But if Obama ends up with the nomination, people like Ruch Limbaugh and Sean Hannity won't cloak it as a compliment. It will be "Swift Boat II" all over again. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Bobert Date: 20 Dec 07 - 06:00 PM Oh, yeah, Rigs... The Clinton's are pros when it comes to dirty politics... They didn't call him Slick Willie fir nuthin'... But I will go on record here, if I haven't said it strongly enough... I wouldn't vote for a Clinton for dog catcher tho seems Bill is purdy good at catchin' 'um... Okay, maybe Chelsea Clinton for dog catcher... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: beardedbruce Date: 20 Dec 07 - 07:56 PM Hey! Don't knock Chelsea- She has not (yet) been caught lying to us... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Donuel Date: 21 Dec 07 - 02:30 PM 1 in 10 peple polled believe he is muslim. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Riginslinger Date: 21 Dec 07 - 03:28 PM It's absolutely amazing how stupid people can be! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Amos Date: 21 Dec 07 - 03:54 PM Well, they're tuned to hate, and there are poeple whose specialty is broadcasting just that frequency, so it gets spread around. Listen to Scarecrows Coulter or Shane and Blame Hannity or Rush "Limp"baugh. Look how many Americans believed Saddam had something to do woth the WTC attacks. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Bobert Date: 21 Dec 07 - 05:23 PM Heck, Amos, there are still a sad percentage of Americans who still believ that Saddam was in on 9/11... Hard to unlearn propanda when is it pounded into you... Yeah, it's sad... That's why I believ that every should be able to vote but not all votes should be counted... Yeah, there should be a short quiz on one's knowledge of the government and current events that everyone should have to pass in order for their votes to be counted... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 21 Dec 07 - 05:48 PM Didn't they used to do something luike that in some parts of the States as a way of stopping black people voting? Pick the right questions... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Amos Date: 04 Jan 08 - 12:39 PM "Barack Obama has won the Iowa caucuses. You'd have to have a heart of stone not to feel moved by this. An African-American man wins a closely fought campaign in a pivotal state. He beats two strong opponents, including the mighty Clinton machine. He does it in a system that favors rural voters. He does it by getting young voters to come out to the caucuses. This is a huge moment. It's one of those times when a movement that seemed ethereal and idealistic became a reality and took on political substance. Iowa won't settle the race, but the rest of the primary season is going to be colored by the glow of this result. Whatever their political affiliations, Americans are going to feel good about the Obama victory, which is a story of youth, possibility and unity through diversity — the primordial themes of the American experience. And Americans are not going to want to see this stopped. When an African-American man is leading a juggernaut to the White House, do you want to be the one to stand up and say No? Obama has achieved something remarkable. At first blush, his speeches are abstract, secular sermons of personal uplift — filled with disquisitions on the nature of hope and the contours of change. He talks about erasing old categories like red and blue (and implicitly, black and white) and replacing them with new categories, of which the most important are new and old. He seems at first more preoccupied with changing thinking than changing legislation. Yet over the course of his speeches and over the course of this campaign, he has persuaded many Iowans that there is substance here as well. He built a great organization and produced a tangible victory. He's made Hillary Clinton, with her wonkish, pragmatic approach to politics, seem uninspired. He's made John Edwards, with his angry cries that "corporate greed is killing your children's future," seem old-fashioned. Edwards's political career is probably over. Obama is changing the tone of American liberalism, and maybe American politics, too. " By DAVID BROOKS, New York Times columnist Published: January 4, 2008 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Big Mick Date: 04 Jan 08 - 01:04 PM I agree with Brooks. I believe that we are at a historic moment in the history of the USA. We are finally seeing the fruits of the epic struggles of the 20th century that dealt with equality on all fronts. This country, for all the great things it managed to accomplish (in spite of its flaws and misteps), still struggled with bigotry that effectively robbed it of over half of its talent and braintrust. But it appears that we have two generations that have had enough. Color and gender, for these generations, mean very little. We have a man of color who is being spoken of in glowing terms, and who is exciting the country. We have a woman who is still the odds on favorite nationally and is a very serious candidate. We have a Trial Attorney who is an unabashed foe of the monied interests that have attempted to corral the money in ever smaller circles, and he is viable. This election, so long as we do not allow it to be hijacked by shysters, could be the touchstone that saved the American middle class. We shall see. Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: KB in Iowa Date: 04 Jan 08 - 01:09 PM Big Mick, you have touched on something that has begun to concern me. The three Dems with a real chance at the nomination are a woman, a black man and a trial lawyer. Seems like fodder for the Republican hit machine. They would have to go after the woman and the black man obliquely but they could hit the lawyer head on. |
