BS: Popular Views on Obama

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 05:12 PM

This thread needs a new name:

Popular views on Amos vs Bearded Bruce

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: beardedbruce
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 05:17 PM

Yes.


Between the two of us, an honest observer might even be able to determine the truth.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 05:22 PM

Wouldn't it be cool if we could have alternate timelines and get to try out both Obama as President and McCain as President on two different timelines?

See how it would turn out either way.

Then you come back to the present and show everyone how it would go in a video. Everybody goes out then and votes for the one who screwed up less badly. ;-)

This would save one HECK of a lot of money, time, trouble, and hot air, wouldn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: beardedbruce
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 05:26 PM

But if Amos doesn't come back from Obama-line, is it because he did not survive, or because he is so happy there he does not want to come back?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: beardedbruce
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 05:28 PM

Not sure I want to risk losing him at the getaway... DoWoops would not be the dame.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: beardedbruce
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 05:29 PM

"same"...


my keyboard must be getting a cold...

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 05:35 PM

"DoWoops would not be the dame."

Sounds like something Chongo would say...

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 05:37 PM

SOme dames DooWops and some dames Doo Nott.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: beardedbruce
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 05:38 PM

I'll just claim poetic license...

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 06:40 PM

Here's Brack Obama outlining the major aspects of his economic plan.

Here are the parts of the economic plan listed out.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Riginslinger
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 09:47 PM

There is some merit to the proposals attributed to Obama, but I think he'd get farther with then if he just submitted them in print, instead of getting in front of crowds to people and putting them to sleep.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 10:20 PM

But, Rig...the job of a politician at campaign time IS to get in front of crowds of people and put them to sleep...which he certainly will if he tries to actually explain anything complicated, like economic policy or medical coverage.

So, it's hardly fair of you to expect Barack NOT to. ;-)

I think that's why the Republicans got Sarah Palin. They knew that putting a controversial "babe" who shoots moose in front of the average Joe Public would keep them awake...what the Democrats should have done is got Paris Hilton to run as their VP. If they had, the Republicans would be f*cked. ;-D

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 20 Sep 08 - 02:59 AM

The above was by me and it is respectfully directed to Amos.

Who was against the 2003 legislation to proposed by GWB to create a New Agency to Oversee Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae?

NYT:

'These two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are not facing any kind of financial crisis,'' said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. ''The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.''

Representative Melvin L. Watt, Democrat of North Carolina, agreed.

''I don't see much other than a shell game going on here, moving something from one agency to another and in the process weakening the bargaining power of poorer families and their ability to get affordable housing,'' Mr. Watt said.

---

INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY

"...But it was the Clinton administration, obsessed with multiculturalism, that dictated where mortgage lenders could lend, and originally helped create the market for the high-risk subprime loans now infecting like a retrovirus the balance sheets of many of Wall Street's most revered institutions.

Tough new regulations forced lenders into high-risk areas where they had no choice but to lower lending standards to make the loans that sound business practices had previously guarded against making. It was either that or face stiff government penalties.

The untold story in this whole national crisis is that President Clinton put on steroids the Community Redevelopment Act, a well-intended Carter-era law designed to encourage minority homeownership. And in so doing, he helped create the market for the risky subprime loans that he and Democrats now decry as not only greedy but "predatory."...

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 20 Sep 08 - 06:37 PM

SAN SEBASTIAN, Spain (AFP) - US filmmaker Woody Allen, best known for such comedy classics as "Annie Hall," says it will be no laughing matter if Barack Obama fails to win the race for the White House.

"It would be a disgrace and a humiliation if Barack Obama does not win," he told Spanish journalists at the ongoing 56th San Sebastian film festival, where his latest film "Vicky Cristina Barcelona" is being screened.

"It would be a very, very terrible thing for the United States in many, many ways," he said.

Democratic hopeful Obama, Allen said, is "so much better" than Republican rival John McCain, and "represents a huge step upward from (the) incompetence and misjudgement" of the Bush administration.

"It would be a terrible thing if the American public was not moved to vote for him, that they actually preferred more of the same."

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 20 Sep 08 - 07:36 PM

"September 19, 2008
Where The Tracking Polls Stand

The four daily tracking polls have been released, so here is a rundown of where each sees the race today:

*Gallup: Obama 49, McCain 44
*Hotline/FD: Obama 45, McCain 44
*Rasmussen: Obama 48, McCain 48
*Battleground: Obama 47, McCain 47

Obama now leads by 1.9 points in the RCP National Average" (RCP)

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 21 Sep 08 - 09:51 AM

Amos:
"Now that's downright amazing!! Eight years since there was a Clinton administration and somehow you believe those rogues were responsible for the collapse of Freddy and Fanny?

Awesome."

Fannie Mae Ex-Officers Sued by U.S.

Fannie Mae's main regulator sued the company's former chairman and chief executive, Franklin D. Raines, and two top financial officers yesterday in an effort to extract more than $215 million in bonus payouts and fines over their involvement in a huge-scale accounting scandal....

"Your assertion tha the takeover was just routine business operations is so disingenuous as to defy credulity."

Please point out this assertion.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 21 Sep 08 - 11:23 AM

The Washington Post Thursday, August 28, 2008; Page A18

"....Two members of Mr. Obama's political circle, James A. Johnson and Franklin D. Raines, are former chief executives of Fannie Mae......"

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 21 Sep 08 - 11:34 AM

MEmbers of his "circle"?

Hell, I hear there are gays, commies, and gender-change characters in his "circle". Because it's a hug circle-several times larger than John McCain's.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 21 Sep 08 - 11:48 AM

Maureen Dowd, using a fictional President from West Wing, offers this advice to Obama:

"Call them liars, because that's what they are. Sarah Palin didn't say "thanks but no thanks" to the Bridge to Nowhere. She just said "Thanks." You were raised by a single mother on food stamps — where does a guy with eight houses who was legacied into Annapolis get off calling you an elitist? And by the way, if you do nothing else, take that word back. Elite is a good word, it means well above average. I'd ask them what their problem is with excellence. While you're at it, I want the word "patriot" back. McCain can say that the transcendent issue of our time is the spread of Islamic fanaticism or he can choose a running mate who doesn't know the Bush doctrine from the Monroe Doctrine, but he can't do both at the same time and call it patriotic. They have to lie — the truth isn't their friend right now. Get angry. Mock them mercilessly; they've earned it. McCain decried agents of intolerance, then chose a running mate who had to ask if she was allowed to ban books from a public library. It's not bad enough she thinks the planet Earth was created in six days 6,000 years ago complete with a man, a woman and a talking snake, she wants schools to teach the rest of our kids to deny geology, anthropology, archaeology and common sense too? It's not bad enough she's forcing her own daughter into a loveless marriage to a teenage hood, she wants the rest of us to guide our daughters in that direction too? It's not enough that a woman shouldn't have the right to choose, it should be the law of the land that she has to carry and deliver her rapist's baby too? I don't know whether or not Governor Palin has the tenacity of a pit bull, but I know for sure she's got the qualifications of one. And you're worried about seeming angry? You could eat their lunch, make them cry and tell their mamas about it and God himself would call it restrained. There are times when you are simply required to be impolite. There are times when condescension is called for!"


I can't say whether Maureen's polemic is good advice or not in practice, buit is very refreshing to read.



A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: beardedbruce
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 09:06 AM

Washington Post:

Closing the Whopper Gap

By Ruth Marcus
Monday, September 22, 2008; Page A15

The symmetry of sin is suddenly looking more equal. Last week, I flayed John McCain for dishonesty -- flagrant and repeated dishonesty -- about Barack Obama's proposals. Obama was by no means blameless, I argued, but his lapses were nowhere near as egregious as his opponent's. I stand by everything I wrote.

But a series of new Obama attacks requires a rebalancing of the scales: Obama has descended to similarly scurrilous tactics on the stump and on the air. On immigration, Obama is running a Spanish-language ad that unfairly lumps McCain together with Rush Limbaugh -- and quotes Limbaugh out of context. On health care, Obama misleadingly accuses McCain of wanting to impose a $3.6 trillion tax hike on employer-provided insurance.

Obama has been furthest out of line, however, on Social Security, stooping to the kind of scare tactics he once derided.

"If my opponent had his way, the millions of Floridians who rely on it would have had their Social Security tied up in the stock market this week," Obama said Saturday as he campaigned in that retiree-heavy state. "Millions of families would've been scrambling to figure out how to give their mothers and fathers, their grandmothers and grandfathers, the secure retirement that every American deserves."

This is simply false -- even leaving aside the incendiary language about "privatizing" Social Security. As the invaluable FactCheck.org noted, the private account plan suggested by President Bush and backed by McCain would not have applied to anyone born before 1950. It would not have changed benefits by a single penny for current retirees like the nice Florida folks that Obama was trying to rile up. The sensible notion was that workers at or near retirement age should be able to rely on promised benefits and should not be subject to the vicissitudes of short-term market fluctuations.

There is a fair argument to be had about the wisdom of having workers invest part of their Social Security taxes in private accounts. This year's plunge buttresses the contention that such accounts are too risky to comprise even part of what was conceived, after all, to serve as a safety net.

But Obama's cartoon version of private accounts is not what Bush suggested, and it certainly is not something being peddled by McCain now. Under Bush's plan, workers would have been able to invest less than a third of their Social Security taxes in private accounts. Unless they specifically chose a riskier course, workers, beginning at age 47, would have had their investments put in "life-cycle portfolios" that shifted from high-growth funds to more secure bonds as retirement approached.


Obama's ads on Social Security are equally misleading. "Cutting benefits in half, risking Social Security on the stock market," it warns. "The Bush-McCain privatization plan. Can you really afford more of the same?"

Cutting benefits in half? As FactCheck notes, "this is a rank misrepresentation." No one at or near retirement age would have been affected. Those retiring in the future would not have received benefits as big as what they have been promised under current law -- but those promises cannot be paid for under the current system or even through the payroll tax increase on the wealthy that Obama has proposed.

The Bush plan would have limited benefits for some workers to growing at the rate of inflation rather than at the generally faster pace of wages. In other words, these workers would be getting benefits equal in real dollar value to those received by current retirees. But under the "progressive price indexing" approach endorsed by the president, lower-income workers would continue to receive all their promised benefits; medium-income workers would have their benefits reduced somewhat; and high-income workers would take the biggest hit.

The Obama campaign stretches the truth beyond recognition when it says that this would cut benefits in half. Under progressive price indexing, the average-earning worker would see a 28 percent cut in promised benefits -- in 2075. In other words, trims of that magnitude would affect workers not yet born. Today's average-earning 25-year-old would experience much smaller reductions in promised benefits upon reaching retirement age -- more like 16 percent.

And the only way the Obama campaign can inflate the supposed benefit cut to "half" is by assuming that the change in calculating benefit growth would be applied to all workers, not just the top tier. In that case, workers not yet born would get 49 percent of the benefits not yet promised to them by 2075. Doubt these numbers? They come from Jason Furman, now the Obama campaign's chief economic adviser.

To Democrats who worry about whether their nominee is willing to do whatever it takes to win: You can calm down.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 09:17 AM

A letter writer on the East Coast responds to a snarky renark:

"What was Obama scoring high in? Votes. Millions and millions of them. He won the primaries, remember? Sarah Palin won the mayorality with 600 votes and the governorship with about 120,000 votes.

People with open minds listened to him, read about him, and learned who he was - had a somewhat turbulent childhood, got scholarships to go to good schools and excelled at those schools. He was the first AA to named Editor of the Harvard Law Review, a prestigious position for the best and the brightest that was noted in papers and magazines nation wide. He graduated magna cum laude from Harvard. The man is brilliant. (Have you heard that McCain graduated 894 out of 899 at the naval academy? A school he got into only because of his family? Like George Bush?)

After Columbia, he worked as a community organizer (gasp!) in Chicago, as Director of the Developing Communities Project (DCP), a church-based community organization to help the poor and disadvantaged and unemployed. While director grew their budget from $70,000 to $400,000 and the DCP staff from 1 to 13 that are still working on those poor streets of Chicago to help people.

After Harvard, he wrote a best selling memoir, worked for a civil rights law firm, and was a professor of constitutional law at the prestigious University of Chicago. (Gosh, wouldn't it be nice to have a president that understands and upholds the constitution?) He also was a State Senator in the Illinois legislature for eight years where he passed important legislation such as better health care for children and mandatory taping of prisoner interrogations among many others. He wrote another best selling book and in 2004 was elected to the U.S. Senate.

In the Senate he sponsored or co-sponsored 570 bills in the 109th and 110th Congress, 15 of which have become law, and he has also introduced amendments to 50 bills, of which 16 were adopted by the Senate. His record is impressive for a junior Senator from Illinois.
Most of his legislative effort has been in the areas of:
- Energy Efficiency and Climate Change (25 bills)
- Health care (21 bills) and public health (20 bills)
- Consumer protection/labor (14 bills)
- The needs of Veterans and the Armed Forces (13 bills)
- Congressional Ethics and Accountability (12 bills)
- Foreign Policy (10 bills)
- Voting and Elections (9 bills)
- Education (7 bills)
- Hurricane Katrina Relief (6)
- The Environment (5 bills)
- Homeland Security (4 bills)
- Discrimination (4 bills)

Go ahead. Compare Sarah's record to that. Mayor of a town of about 6,000 (there were far more than that in the area of Chicago where Obama was working hands-on with the poor and he was doing it on a salary of $13,000, not $68,000). Governor of a state with less than 700,000 people and was fortunate to be there when there was a huge spike in oil prices globally which she had absolutely nothing to do with but certainly benefitted from. There's a reason why Obama has a huge advantage among the better educated and better informed voters and that reason is obvious when you read the posts from most right wingers on various blogs.

— sharon

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 03:16 PM

Obama talks economy in Wisconsin (9-22). The transcript of his remarks is well worth reading as it gives a clear notion of his positions.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 03:18 PM

Police Group Endorses Obama-Biden Ticket
Posted by Ryan Corsaro| 8





(CBS)From CBS News' Ryan Corsaro:

(BALTIMORE) - Joe Biden and the Obama campaign received the endorsement of the National Association of Police Organizations this morning, a group that represents over 2,000 police organizations across the United States.

NAPO president Tom Nee congratulated Biden by phone and promised the organization would support Barack Obama candidacy for president.

"It's my great honor this morning to pledge to you and to commit to you the support of 287,000 police officers from around the country," said Nee.

"Joe, I gotta tell you too, man to man, we've been very good friends and you've worked so very hard on behalf of the American people for a very long period of time. We know we can count on you," Nee added.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 03:20 PM

OLEMA ¯ Motorists entering the quaint, woodsy town of Olema near the sea in Marin County may notice a subtle change as they enter: it appears the burg's name has been changed to "Obama."

Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama supporter and bed and breakfast owner Kelly Emery created a perfect mirror of the green sign people read as they enter the town's limits.

Now people unfamiliar with the area may think they are entering the town of Obama, population: 55.

Emery's sign has created little fuss in this politically liberal area, but the county said there are laws regulating such behavior.

Marin County senior planner Curtis Havel said county code allows for political signs on one's residence or place of business not more than 45 days prior to an election.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Alice
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 10:15 AM

Senator Barack Obama received endorsement from the American Humane Society.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 01:45 PM

The Obama campaign released a white paper this morning on his new government ethics and transparency proposals. Some of them he's spoken about before -- like open budgeting, televised regulatory hearings and the appointment of a government chief technology officer; what's below is new:

-- create a new agency to identify and track corporate welfare recipients, he'll give the Office of Government Ethics officers (4,000) in total more authority and the agency the ability to make binding regulations. Note: the OGE will become the clearinghouse for all public records about ethics in the executive branch.
-- eliminate "ideological performance goals
--work to increase the president's authority to change or eliminate programs entirely; he "will also experiment with giving government managers the ability to work with their teams to establish goals and to give bonuses when those goals are met."
-- reduce layers middle management in Washington
-- strengthen whistleblower protection laws
-- cut federal spending on contractors by 10 percent, which would say, in his view, $40 billion.
-- end the use of no-bid contracts and forbid the granting of federal contracts for tax delinquent companies


The white paper can be read here.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 09:46 PM

"increase the president's authority to change or eliminate programs entirely" A grab for power Ala Chavez

eliminate "ideological performance goals like the goal to cut federal spending on contractors by 10 percent and ending the use of no-bid contracts.

Bubba and Co. invented those no bid contracts and whomped themselves on the back for thinking of them as part of their elimination of the deficit.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 01:57 AM

Did anyone besides me watch Newshour with Jim Lehrer tonight (Tuesday)? They did a lengthy segment on Obama; Margaret Warner interviewed - singly - a number of people who have known, worked with or worked for Obama.

Obama, the man, came through with flying colors. The concensus was that he is a man of thought and principles, a man who has an innate vision of goals and the means of reaching them evem of it is step by step, a pragmatic man who studies a situation carefully with input from disparate minds and who then comes to a reasoned conclusion.

In regard to having chosen Biden as running mate, one man told Warner that Obama wants bright people around him, thathe needs bright people.

Another said that Obama appears confident that he can convince anyone of what is right in a given situation.

An early mentor of Obama's said that he has never seen Obama upset at not getting his way (I'm paraphrasing here), that he leaves emotions out of it.

What a change. He is a person I want for my president.

I should think that one could find the transcript on the net; it would be well worth rading.

Tomorrow night Judy Woodruff is to do a piece on McCain. I definitely plan to watch.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 12:45 PM

RCP Average 09/17 - 09/23 -- 48.1 44.9 Obama +3.2
Rasmussen Tracking 09/21 - 09/23 3000 LV 49 47 Obama +2
Hotline/FD Tracking 09/21 - 09/23 903 RV 48 42 Obama +6
ABC News/Wash Post 09/19 - 09/22 780 LV 52 43 Obama +9
Ipsos-McClatchy 09/18 - 09/22 923 RV 44 43 Obama +1
Battleground Tracking 09/17 - 09/23 800 LV 46 48 McCain +2
Gallup Tracking 09/20 - 09/22 2740 RV 47 44 Obama +3
CNN/Opinion Research 09/19 - 09/21 697 LV 51 47 Obama +4

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 03:08 PM

Barack Obama has recaptured the lead — 45 percent to 39 percent — over John McCain in the presidential race, according to a FOX News poll released Wednesday.

As majorities of each party's faithful back their party nominee, the battle stays focused on that most sought-after group of voters: independents.

These voters, evenly divided between the candidates in August, swung to McCain earlier this month, which gave him his first lead over Obama since April. In this latest poll independents give a slight edge to Obama, though many have moved back into the undecided column.

In addition, the poll shows Obama has improved his position on the most important issue to voters this year — the economy. He is seen as the best candidate to handle the nation's economy, and more voters also say he would be better at handling the current financial crisis facing the country.

Opinion Dynamics Corp. conducted the national telephone poll of 900 registered voters for FOX News from September 22 to September 23. The poll has a 3-point error margin.
...(FOX News)

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 03:17 PM

To Democrats fretting that Barack Obama isn't running away with the election, former President Bill Clinton has a message: Chill out, the race was always going to be close.

"I think, first of all, presidential elections, a lot of voting is cultural and identity-based," he said in an interview to air tonight on CNN's "Larry King Live." If you go back through the whole 20th century, we've only had one landslide elections, Franklin Roosevelt in 1936, where both candidates didn't get at least 39 or 40 percent of the vote. That is, the typical race was 40-40, 20 percent could go either way. Then you got to the 1968 election and all of those upheavals 40 years ago. And after that, the Republican base got to be about 45 percent, ours was about 40 percent.

"That's why it was so hard for Democrats to win the White House for a long time. Sometime in my second term it started evening up. And then we had a couple of races where the bases were about 45 and 45.
If you go into a race where you're going to get 45 percent of the vote, then those races are going to look close until the end," he added.

"But what I've always thought would happen here is that because of the condition of the economy, because of the demographics of America growing more diverse, younger, more open to the diversity of the Democratic Party, and because Senator Obama is, I think, not only charismatic, but really smart and a very disciplined candidate who has handled himself, I think, by and large remarkably well, I've always thought that in the end he would come out ahead. ..."

(Boston.com)

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Riginslinger
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 09:09 AM

"Senator Obama is, I think, not only charismatic, but really smart and a very disciplined candidate who has handled himself, I think, by and large remarkably well,..."


                      He's certainly seeing a different Obama than I see!

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 10:22 AM

That may be because he is less biased in the seeing, Rig.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: beardedbruce
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 10:26 AM

Depends on what the meaning of the word "IS" is.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Riginslinger
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 10:52 AM

"That may be because he is less biased in the seeing, Rig."


                      Or blind!

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 11:19 AM

While that's a physiological possibility, the probability is against it--more liekly there is a deistortion filter in place in your end of the dialogue that desperately seeks to nullify and make worse anything related to President Mister Obama's intelligence and conmpetence.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: beardedbruce
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 11:25 AM

Senator Obama.


Not President, and Mr. is denying him his present office.

Just as Palin is Gov. Palin, and Biden is Sen. Biden, and McCain is Sen. McCain.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 11:44 AM

QUite right, Bruce. Good to keep the important things in mind.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: beardedbruce
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 03:09 PM

I think that Barack Obama's decision to continue on the campaign trail is an asinine and ridiculous decision. This is the worst financial crisis that our country has faced since the Great Depression and while he is running for President, he needs to remember that his first (and only) job as of now is to be a senator representing the state of Illinois. Real leadership requires making an intelligent decision, and while it's great that Obama can say that he is going to do two things at once I believe this economic crisis requires a full dedication of his time. One cannot stump on the campaign trail, fly all over the country, make speeches and television appearances and also help solve this issue. There are only so many hours in a day, and seeing as this crisis could lead to a depression, it seems fitting that a senator ought to be focusing all of his energy on solving this issue before tackling presidential campaigns.

If any Americans are not aware of Obama's nomination to become President then they are out of tune, and as such, I don't believe he needs to be on the campaign trail. Actions speak louder than words, and John McCain's decision to return to Washington (while clearly partially influenced by political maneuvering) also shows true leadership. The man recognizes that his primary job is to serve the people of Arizona, and if he were campaigning he wouldn't be dedicating his everything to figuring out what to do in this crisis and thus wouldn't be serving the people of Arizona or the American people as well as he should be. It is McCain who has made a wise decision here, and the junior senator from Illinois who has made a hard-headed decision.

Real leaders work for the people - and in the last 24 hours John McCain has proven that he understands that while Obama continues to talk the talk but he fails to walk the walk. Return to DC, where your job is, Obama!

http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-93736

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 03:39 PM

THis is complete horsepucky, Bruce. His contributions to the dialogue on the bailout were clear and incisive, and more helpful than anything I have heard from McCain. Where's the beef? Leadership does not show itself by proppping yourself up in a photo-op somewhere. John McCain's "work" so far on this issue appears to have been taking a plane ride from New York to DC.



Or maybe he rode Amtrak.



A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 03:46 PM

Y'know Bruce...the only thing that either McCain or Obama can do immediately about this is to cast a vote in the senate. McCain must have made some intelligent decisions during this campaign, just on the basis of statistics. He's endorsed just about every side of just about every issue at one time or another.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 03:50 PM

Sorry, Amos.

It seems there are those that disagree with you: As you have presented some that disagree with me about both Bush and McCain, I will present some that disagree with you about Obama. You just might have to deal with the fact that just because you hold the same viewpoint as the majority of posting Mudcatters, you cannot silence those that disagree with you and claim to allow free speech.

Feel free to bring out any facts that pertain- but the opinions that I present are as valid as the opinions that you post.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 03:57 PM

A $100,000 state grant for a botanic garden in Englewood that then-state Sen. Barack Obama awarded in 2001 to a group headed by a onetime campaign volunteer is now under investigation by the Illinois attorney general amid new questions, prompted by Chicago Sun-Times reports, about whether the money might have been misspent.

The garden was never built. And now state records obtained by the Sun-Times show $65,000 of the grant money went to the wife of Kenny B. Smith, the Obama 2000 congressional campaign volunteer who heads the Chicago Better Housing Association, which was in charge of the project for the blighted South Side neighborhood.

Smith wrote another $20,000 in grant-related checks to K.D. Contractors, a construction company that his wife, Karen D. Smith, created five months after work on the garden was supposed to have begun, records show. K.D. is no longer in business.

Attorney General Lisa Madigan -- a Democrat who is supporting Obama's presidential bid -- is investigating "whether this charitable organization properly used its charitable assets, including the state funds it received," Cara Smith, Madigan's deputy chief of staff, said Wednesday.

In addition to the 2001 grant that Obama directed to the housing association as a "member initiative," the not-for-profit group got a separate $20,000 state grant in 2006.

Madigan's office has notified Obama's presidential campaign of the probe, which was launched this week. But Obama's actions in awarding the money are not a focus of the investigation, Smith said.

Questions about the grant, though, come as spending on local pet projects has become an issue in Obama's campaign against John McCain.

Obama and Kenny Smith announced the "Englewood Botanic Garden Project" at a January 2000 news conference at Englewood High School. Obama was in the midst of a failed bid to oust South Side Democratic Rep. Bobby Rush for a seat in Congress. The garden -- planned near and under L tracks between 59th Place and 62nd Place -- fell outside of Obama's Illinois Senate district but within the congressional district's borders.

Obama vowed to "work tirelessly" to raise $1.1 million to help Smith's organization turn the City of Chicago-owned lot into an oasis of trees and paths. But Obama lost the congressional race, no more money was raised, and today the garden site is a mess of weeds, chunks of concrete and garbage. The only noticeable improvement is a gazebo.

In a previous interview, Smith said the state grant money was legitimately spent, mostly on underground site preparation.

But no one ever took out construction permits required for such work, city records show. And a contractor who Smith said did most of the work told a reporter all he did was cut down trees and grade the site with a Bobcat.

Citing the garden's failure to take root, NeighborSpace -- an umbrella group for dozens of community gardens citywide -- moved Sept. 9 to return the site to the city. Its action followed a July 11 Sun-Times report on the grant.

Obama spokesman Michael Ortiz said Wednesday the senator's staff in Washington will monitor the Madigan probe and an additional review under way by Gov. Blagojevich's administration to make sure "the taxpayer funds allocated for the construction of the garden are recuperated from CBHA if the agencies determine that the funds were not properly spent." Obama's goal is to ensure the site "be used in a way that benefits the community and that any taxpayer dollars allocated are spent wisely," Ortiz said.

The relationship between Smith and Obama dates to at least 1997, when Obama wrote a letter that Smith used to help the housing association win city funding for an affordable-housing development near the garden site. Plans called for more than 50 homes; a dozen ultimately were built.

Smith also has donated $550 to Obama campaign funds.

The Sun-Times learned about Karen Smith's involvement in the project through an Aug. 12 Freedom of Information Act response from a lawyer for Blagojevich¹s Department of Commerce and Economic Opportunity. The department, according to the lawyer, had ³discovered² 52 pages of ³additional documents² ommitted from an initial response in May to a Sun-Times¹ Freedom of Information Act request about the grant.

Neither Smith nor his wife has been accused of any wrongdoing. Smith and his lawyer did not return repeated calls seeking comment.

In an interview in July, Smith said he was never able to raise the money needed for the garden. But the state grant awarded by Obama was spent properly, he said, on the underground work, with most of the work done by a contractor whose name Smith got wrong.

The Sun-Times tracked down the contractor, Rodolfo Marin, in Austin, Texas, where he now lives.

"What I was hired for was: Clean up the area and cut the trees -- that's all," Marin said. He said he rented a Bobcat -- a sort of small bulldozer -- for the project.

And how much did Smith pay him? "If he spent about $3,000 with me, that was too much."

Chris Fusco and Dave McKinney

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Riginslinger
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 05:02 PM

And now, McCain is saving the economy!

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 06:03 PM

So, you believe in leadership by photo-op, then. I am sorry, but not suprised.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 07:08 PM

See these remarks by the good Senator Obama on how he is managing:

http://my.barackobama.com/latestremarks

A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 09:35 PM

"Leadership does not show itself by proppping yourself up in a photo-op somewhere"

So why did Obama flip flop and show up after he said he wouldn't? He blinked.

I think Rove still has his fingers in the pie.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Riginslinger
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 09:40 PM

"So why did Obama flip flop and show up after he said he wouldn't?"


                  Flip-flopping is what he does best. Besides, somebody told him that television cameras would be there, unlike the vet hospitals in Germany.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 10:15 PM

From socialistworker.org

"If Obama is elected in November, it will be easy to work with him."

"He's really populist in what he says. People are going to have to learn through practice the reality of the Democratic Party's policies."

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 11:10 PM

You guys are so full of it it makes it hard to think straight just listening to you.

He said he didn't think it was necessary to drop the debate. He's the one who suggested, originally, that a joint statement be evolved to bridge the gap between parties in a time of crisis. He initiated the plan to have the two of them come together and possibly speak with the President.

Get real.


A