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BS: Popular Views on Obama
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Ron Davies Date: 05 Jan 08 - 04:23 PM LH-- I'll have to say you shouldn't thank me for the link to the video--I think that was Don. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Amos Date: 05 Jan 08 - 04:36 PM Don, Ron, alla same meee, ey? A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Riginslinger Date: 05 Jan 08 - 04:40 PM Ron - I've said it before, and I'll say it again, if Obama gets the nomination I will vote for him. I'd just have to see the Democrats opt for another shoot-youself-in-the-foot candidate like they are so prone to do. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Riginslinger Date: 05 Jan 08 - 05:09 PM Don - The Brancaccio video was great. I live in the Pacific Northwest and our TV signal was off last night so I missed the show. Thanks, again! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Little Hawk Date: 05 Jan 08 - 06:40 PM I have been getting Don Firth and Ron Davies mixed up for so long here (partly due to their very similar tone and approach in political discussion threads) that when I think of either one of them, I see the same face in my mind!!! I see an older guy, medium build, fairly tall, fair skin, with a wispy, greying beard and mustache, going a bit bald on top...glasses...rather studious in appearance...wearing a turle-neck sweater and jeans. I kid you not! ;-) Whether my inner vision is anything in accord with the reality of either Don Firth or Ron Davies, I do not know. Perhaps I should look up their photos in the memberphotos and find out? Naw....too easy.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Bobert Date: 05 Jan 08 - 07:56 PM Well, folks, you heard it here first... Obama can win and will win if: 1. The Swiftboaters can't come up with bunch of somewhat believable lies to smear him, which I doubt they can... 2. He stay6s in the positive campaign mode and... 3.... he picks Bill Richardson as a running mate, who will bring both New Mexico and Arizona into the Dems electorial college column... The Dems can hold what they had in '04 and those two states, plus the very real possibility of a John Warner for Senate run might bring Virginia into Obama's electorial column as well, would insure his election... BTW, not to be dropping names but looks as if this ol' hillbilly will be having lunch with John Warner this Thursday and will be sure to let him know that the two of them will need each other in November... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Little Hawk Date: 05 Jan 08 - 08:04 PM Do that, Bobert, and mention this to him also: William Shatner is available as a nonpartisan political advisor...for a fee. His wisdom and influence is inestimable, he has his finger on the pulse of our times, and those seeking public office who would pass up the opportunity to avail themselves of his unique strategic aid when it is offered would have to be mad. Don't forget, now! ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Amos Date: 05 Jan 08 - 08:45 PM Tell him as well that I would consider representing the nation to the Dominican Republic, or even better to the Republic of Cuba as soon as that position becomes available... A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Bobert Date: 05 Jan 08 - 08:55 PM Not to worry, LH and Amos... I was kinda thinkin' of you, Amos, as a good Secretary of State and as fir you, LH... ...Ahhhh, Secretary of Rocks... Hey, ya' gotta start somewhere??? Heck, I just want Warner to fully understand that he has in his power not only getting elected to the Senate but bringin' Obama along on his coat-tails into Penn. Ave... Things are lookin' more an' more like I know what I'm gonna be doin' this year... (Geeze???...) B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Don Firth Date: 05 Jan 08 - 09:18 PM Bill O'Reilly is such a little sweetie! CLICKY. (The story may not be around for long. I don't know how often Yahoo chances them) Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Amos Date: 06 Jan 08 - 02:49 AM Maureen Dowd writes: "...The Obama revolution arrived not on little cat feet in the Iowa snow but like a balmy promise, an effortlessly leaping lion hungry for something different, propelled by a visceral desire among Americans to feel American again. The Bushes always self-consciously and swaggeringly put themselves Òon the American side,Ó as Poppy used to say, implying that their rivals were somehow less American. But many Americans can no longer see themselves in the warped values of the Bush White House or the pathetic paralysis of Congress or the disapproving gaze of the world. They want a different looking glass. So they rolled the dice and, as The Chicago TribuneÕs Mike Tackett put it, Òvoted for a smile.Ó I interviewed three Republicans in the Obama section of the caucus who were ready for the red state, blue state merger. They said they didnÕt want Hill and Bill back in the White House, and that John McCain was too much of a yes man for W., who had betrayed Republicans with his handling of the Iraq war and his fiscal irresponsibility. HillaryÕs aides were grumbling last week that Obama had no rationale to offer but himself. Perhaps that was true when he started. People usually run for president because somebody tells them they should and then graft on the reasons afterward. But on Thursday, ObamaÕs vague optimism and smooth-jazz modernity came together in a spectacular fusion with the deep yearning of Democrats who have suffered through heartbreaking losses in the last two elections with uninspiring candidates. Often unable to surf the electricity he sparked over the last year, Obama has now put on his laurel wreath and dropped his languid pose, tapping directly into what he calls the Òfire burningÓ across the country Ñ the dream of a cool, smart, elegant, reasonable, literary, witty, decent ÒWest WingÓ sort of president who wonÕt bankrupt us or endanger us or co-opt our rights or put a black hood on the Constitution. ÒI want to go before the world and say, AmericaÕs back,Ó he told cheering Democrats in Milford, N.H., adding: ÒWe are one nation. We are one people. And our time for change has come.Ó Even though Obama was wooing the young demographic so coveted by Hollywood, he took a page from J.F.K. and avoided the casual look last week. There were no jeans or snow boots. Just dark suits, stylish ties and dress shoes...." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Bobert Date: 06 Jan 08 - 10:12 AM Yup, that's the way it is... Moreen has hit the exact right note in describing why people like Obama... It is very much his style... The medium has become the message... That's what Obama has over the entire cast of wantabees... Yes, I'm also tired of the US pyuttin' on it's frown toward it's own people and those folks who live elsewhere... If Obama brings nuthin' more than a face change and ***the smile** to the West Wing, he will be a huge success... The pro-human policies will follow... Plus, something that hasn't been brought up but will, I believe, come into play in the coming months is folks getting to know who else Obama will be bringing to the party... Yeah, I know that both current Virginia Senator, Jim Webb and former Virgina Governor, Mark Warner have been mentioned and both would bring a ***smile*** with them... Personally, I'd prefer Warner but I can very much live with Bill Richardson, as well... These are all folks who can bring the ***smile*** back into governance... What I'd hate to see is either Clinton or Edwards on the ticket... I like Edwards but he wouldn't help the ticket... I don't particularially like Hillary... But Amos and LH are shoe-ins for cabinet positions even if it does require the creation of a Department of Rocks for LH... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Big Mick Date: 06 Jan 08 - 10:24 AM It doesn't take a lot of brains to understand that a Vice President is chosen mostly for what s/he brings in terms of votes to the ticket. That is politics 101. Richardson is the odds on favorite for VP for a simple reasons. He brings western States and the Hispanic vote, which most of us who have actual experience in these things know is the most important emerging electorate out there. He adds the one cred that Barak Obama needs. Foreign policy experience, with a resume' that is hard to match. No matter who gets the nomination on the Democratic side, it is a very good bet that Richardson will be the VP. Clinton did pretty well last night, but I think I come down on the side of Steve McMahon and Mike Murphy this morning on Meet the Press. She still has a chance, but the trending should be of great concern to her. She is headed one way, and Obama is headed the other. If he does well in NH and SC, this thing is over. My guy, John Edwards, it appears to me, is making a 12th round stand. Based on what I saw last night, he is playing the position game for after the nomination. He is still the one I would prefer. Obama and Richardson. This could be a very good year. Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Riginslinger Date: 06 Jan 08 - 10:59 AM I can just see the Republicans rubbing their hands together and salivating over the prospect of an Obama/Richardson ticket. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Azizi Date: 06 Jan 08 - 11:46 AM I would to call Mudcatters' attention to a dailykos diary about the meaning of Barak Obama's candidacy for President of the USA. I find this diary to be an interesting and thought provoking read. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/1/5/173727/4473/966/431261 A Black Woman's Musings on Coffee with Dad, Racism, and Barack Obama by shanikka Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 04:05:23 PM PST This daily kos recommended diary was written in response to an earlier dailykos recommended diary that was titled "Coffee with Dad -the stone racist would vote for Obama" http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/1/5/12243/06635/138/431080 by Rosebuddear Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 10:08:32 AM PST The author of that first diary wrote about how she attempted to convince her father who she described as a racist that he should vote for Barak Obama. One of the points that Rosebuddear, the first diarist, made was that Obama was a "good Black person" and not like the so many Black people who her father despised-people who were on welfare and who lived in public housing & tore up that housing. shannika, the author of the second diary, wrote that the first diarist's description of Black people as "Bad Black/Good Black" was in and of itself was racist, because-among other things- 1} most Black people aren't on welfare; 2} most Black people don't live in public housing and 3} Most Black people who live in public housing don't tear up their dwelling. I agree with this point and the other points that shannika made in that diary. Here's an excerpt from shannika's diary: "...It is my depressed and sad view, based on what I've heard folks say, including the many well-meaning folks like the diarist [who wrote the diary about her father *], that a unconscious motivation is the possibility of the chance for America to "officially" (by electing a Black president) declare the harm of racism in America "over." Free at last, free at last....? Racism is this nation's original sin. So, what better way to make a Declaration of Indepdendence from the responsibility to clean up the mess than by embracing a Black presidential candidate who already excites because he is a rhetorical powerhouse and conveys a real sense of hope, yet notably has very little to say publicly about Blacks that is positive and certainly has said nothing other than stereotypical things (i.e. "Black children will see they can succeed" -- as if the majority of Black children haven't been seeing that all along, somehow, in all the other Black folks who have succeeded before Barack Obama) to the point that folks like the diarist are actually speaking about him as a contrast to millions of nameless and faceless "Black people" who "tear up" "affordable housing" and "take advantage" of "welfare." (At least, since he started running for President, anyhow.) That, to me as a proud Black person who has fought all her life for Black people (and a whole lot of others, proving that one can have "a Black agenda" and actually do white folks a lot of good too!), is some scary shit. Because the work not only is not done, it was never done and things for the collective are getting horribly, permanently, WORSE. My true hope is that one day Barack Obama will actually talk about how he will make it better - using the actual words "Black people" in more than a way that just heaps on more criticism." -snip- * my addition And here is a comment from that diary: "...I have also been worried by comments I've read about how the nomination and election of Barack Obama would represent some kind of major sign that we've taken a big step forward in ending racism. But in my simplistic way I've responded by saying a win by Barack Obama would mean he was able to win in spite of racism, not that we've somehow made great progress against racism. (My own daily life tells me that racism is alive and well in this country.) I also get disturbed whenever I see or comments that are along the line of "Obama is the right kind of Black person," which we saw in the Coffee with Dad diary as you pointed out, although white folks would never think to say that John Edwards is "the right kind of white person." " -davidkc -snip- For the record, let me also say that I strongly support the presidential candidacy of Senator Barak Obama. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Azizi Date: 06 Jan 08 - 11:58 AM Here's another essay from dailykos that focuses on Senator Barak Obama and partly explains why I support Obama's candidacy for President of the USA: Thoughts On The Obama Campaign by DemFromCT Sun Jan 06, 2008 at 07:46:07 AM PST http://www.dailykos.com/ Here's an excerpt from that front page diary: "...I do have an observation about the Obama campaign. I love it. I like the idea of inclusion, of forward looking solutions, and the day when the former Bush administration can be looked back on with the perspective it deserves. And I love, absolutely love, the 2:1 turnout in Iowa, and the 3:2 turnout currently projected for indies from NH voting in the Dem primary over the Republican one. Win or lose, Obama is running the kind of campaign that will be transformative. What does that mean? It means finding the Holy Grail of politics: getting new people out to vote, while keeping your base intact. Position papers won't do it. The only way to do that is to feel it in your gut... In order to win, you have to offer a vision of hope, and a sense that the candidate can get us to a better place. The Obama campaign is doing that in a big way. You can feel it when you see the new faces and talk to the new voters. You can get a sense when you hear about the big crowds, though the key there was seen in Iowa (the new folks showed up)... Do other campaigns have it in them to do it? Show me the voters showing up, and I will write nice things about their campaigns, too. But in the meantime, the GOP has people who alienate Latinos and minorities, and treat 9/11 as a vehicle for personal gain. We have campaigns that bring out new people to vote. I think I'd rather be on our team than their team. And I think we're about to see that America would, too." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Big Mick Date: 06 Jan 08 - 12:12 PM A great piece, Azizi, and I especially enjoyed your comments. As a person who has spent a great deal of his life involved in the political scene, let me tell you what inspires me about Obama. First off, he reminds me of the Kennedy that I felt would have been one of our greatest Presidents ---- Bobby. Second, I work for racial and gender equality for several reasons. One of those is because I have three daughters. Another is because it makes no sense to short ourselves of way over half our available braintrust for the most important office in the land. Another is because my "chosen" family includes a number of folks that I couldn't look in the face if I didn't ACT on them. I find comments like "the right kind of (fill in the blank)" to be about as ignorant as they can be. The only right kind of person that I am looking for is the one that will be the right kind of President. The amount of melanin in ones skin, so far as I can tell, doesn't affect that ability anymore than their shoe size. It is time for the ignorance of racism and sexism in all their forms to end. I think a political season in which the odds on fav's are a person of African ancestry and a woman means that USA's best days are ahead of us. One more thing. And it is a gentle rebuke to the blogger above. I tire of hearing that Obama doesn't use the term "black" enough. His whole point, and the one that excites me the most, is that there is no blue States/red States, only the United States of American. I don't believe this is a rejection of the distance we need to travel to true racial and ethnic equality. But it does say, what is good for your kids, parents, families, etc. is good for mine. This is going to be remembered as one of the most important elections in the history of this still young country. Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Bobert Date: 06 Jan 08 - 12:57 PM I don't think the Repubs want any part of a Obama/Richardson ticket, Rigs... About the only issue that the Repubs would have going for them against Obama is his lack of foriegn policy experience... Richardson shores that one up... Yeah, I remember back in 2000 folks were thinkin', "Well, at least Dick Cheney is there..."... Yeah, I know, hahahaha... But history does in some ways repeat itself and Richardson would be Obama's equivelent to a 2000 Dick Cheney... (Horrors, Bobert!!!) No, not really... Richardson brings alot of "experience" in foriegn affairs and strips the Repubs main issue... Plus, in the debates, Richardson will be all over the Repub's VP, no matter who it is becuase it is unlikely that McCain would accept the #2 position and the rest of the field is clueless... But, Rigs, like in '04 the Repubs will try to Dean Obama and say that's who they want to run against... Problem is for the Repubs that the Dems have allready seen this play before... BTW, if I get a chance to ask Mark Warner this Thursday about an Obama/Warner ticket I sho nuff will... I believe that combination would even take Page County, Va. where Dems rarely win... BTW, if Obama were to carry the states that Kerry carried and just add Virginia that would put the Dems on Penn. Ave... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Little Hawk Date: 06 Jan 08 - 02:03 PM For anyone to keep beating the drum constantly in their speeches about what race they belong to (whether it be the White race, the Black Race, the Native American race, the Hispanics etc...) is NOT helpful to creating unity and harmony in a society, nor is it helpful to freeing any disempowered minorities. It is helpful to maintaining the division, suspicion, fear, and contention that already exists between racial groups. Human beings are human beings, period. That's the truth that should be spoken. We are all human first and foremost. One's race should not matter one iota, any more than the color of one's hair or eyes. The fact that Obama does not harp constantly on "Black" issues and his "Black" identity in order to grossly manipulate people's emotions and supposedly gain himself some votes by so doing, but instead speaks simply as an AMERICAN (with no racial emphasis of any kind) is one of the strongest things he's got going for him, and I applaud it. I wish more people had the good sense to do just as he is doing, and not pander to the emotional punch of constantly dragging RACE into every frikking dialogue. It's like a disease with a lot of people...the way they do that. It doesn't help Black people one bit, in my opinion, it perpetuates division along race lines. What will help Black people is for Obama to act like an AMERICAN....with no racial bias whatsoever....and get elected! That will help undo this awful racial divide that has been festering in American culture ever since the first slaves were brought to these shores. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Ron Davies Date: 06 Jan 08 - 02:30 PM Rig-- None of us want to see the Democrats pick a "shoot yourself in the foot" candidate. I gather this is a snide comment by you against Kerry--who actually was a much stronger candidate than Dean would ever have been. The top 2004 issue was always national security. There is no possible way that a person who wanted to withdraw all the troops from Iraq immediately then would have been seen by the electorate as stronger on national security than a person who fought in combat in Vietnam (Kerry). I've already given much more plausible reasons why Kerry lost in 2004--and Dean would have lost worse than that. If you'd like I can detail the real reasons for Kerry's loss again. Nobody has ever come up with any evidence that Dean would have been seen as stronger on national security than Kerry--though I have asked for this evidence more than once. And that is by far the crucial issue. However, that is now (surprisingly) ancient history. The way for the Democrats to pick a "shoot-yourself-in- the- foot" candidate now would be to pick Hillary--who has the burdens both of the 1960's legacy and the 1990's legacy--and will never be able to shed either. Obama has neither the Vietnam war legacy nor the visceral anti-Clinton feeling-- which is still widespread--to deal with. Moreover, he is a real uniter, not a divider. And not only inspires trust but uplift--and not just among Democrats. Clinton is seen not only as somebody who continues the adversarial politics the US is sick of, but refuses to take stands on so many issues--and on top of that is untrustworthy. There's no question who's the stronger candidate for the general election--by far. And it ain't Hillary. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 06 Jan 08 - 03:08 PM "...white folks would never think to say that John Edwards is 'the right kind of white person.' " On the other hand how about stuff like: October 01, 2001 (CNSNews.com) - Former President Bill Clinton was honored as the nation's first black president Saturday at the Congressional Black Caucus (CBC) Annual Awards Dinner on in Washington, DC. ......................... Talk about "the right sort of" in this context can be seen in two ways. One is as an expression of lingering racism, and that is a valid enough way. But another is as evidence that a racial and racist stereotype is crumbling in the face of a reality that does not accord with it. Obviously if Obama gets to be president that wouldn't mean that racism is dead in America (and any attempts to claim that it did would deserve to be challenged). But it would be a powerful symbol that it had been dethroned. And if he turned out to be an outstandigly good president, which seems pretty likely, by the time he came to leave the White House the symbolic change might have helped achieve a real change, with racism being seen not so much as wicked as ridiculous.("Ridikulus" as they say in Hogwarts when dealing with boggarts.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Lonesome EJ Date: 06 Jan 08 - 03:34 PM "if he turned out to be an outstandigly good president, which seems pretty likely" Well, McGrath, I think that may be taking wishful thinking to the extreme. I believe Obama shows great promise and I am supporting him, but I think we need to see him get to the Presidency and walk the walk before we begin to speculate about his legacy. Obama difficult to criticise? His past drug use is something he has admitted to, and I believe they'll go after him on that basis. Remember, NO ONE thought Kerry could be attacked on his armed service history, and they made that into an issue. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Little Hawk Date: 06 Jan 08 - 03:39 PM Racism is ridiculous. It always has been. But people have this tendency to be afraid of anyone who's "different" in some obvious outer way from them, and the best way to overcome it is through education and getting to know people who are "different" from oneself. I would rather see a leader who focuses on the common values that unite all people than one who tries to set himself up as some kind of special advocate for any one sector of the population, whether that sector be racial, religious, class level, or in any way partisan or set apart from the whole people. If one cannot easily think outside the imaginary box of one's own racial, cultural, religious, or party indentification...then one has become trapped to a great extent INSIDE that box...and that can seriously limit one's freedom of thought and freedom of action as a human being moving freely amongst one humanity...which is what we all are. Think how ridiculous it would be for brown rabbits, white rabbits, and grey rabbits in nature to divide up and start fighting over their differing colors! That's how ridiculous it is for people to do so. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Azizi Date: 06 Jan 08 - 04:03 PM Obviously if Obama gets to be president that wouldn't mean that racism is dead in America (and any attempts to claim that it did would deserve to be challenged). But it would be a powerful symbol that it had been dethroned. -McGrath of Harlow I strongly agree with this statement. I believe that Barak Obama recognizes that his becoming president would not mean the end of personal and institutional racism within the United States. However, I believe that a President Obama would diligently work toward the eradication or diminution of institutional racism and other forms of inequity within this nation. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: GUEST,dianavan Date: 06 Jan 08 - 04:05 PM It seemed that Obama had not watched the Republican debate and had not been briefed. Did he actually say he was flipping channels between the debate and football? That seemed a bit glib to me. Is he really that confident? Does he think that he can sit back and ride the charismatic wave? I think he had better start showing the voters that he is more than a media darling. But maybe that is what America wants. I had really high hopes for Obama but after watching the debate, I think that he lacks substance. Is he really all talk and no action? Will the voter, once again, be swayed by image alone? It seemed that Hillary might be right. He lacks experience. The only thing that would save him is a strong VP. I think Obama/Richardson or might be the ticket. I was actually impressed with Richardson. He came across as someone who was willing to work hard to promote change. Its hard to know where Obama stands. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Riginslinger Date: 06 Jan 08 - 05:22 PM George Step-in-awful-stuff said that Obama and Richardson made back-room deals that hurt Hillary in Iowa, but had the effect of keeping Richardson alive. I haven't figured out the Iowa system yet, so I don't know if that's possible or not. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Ron Davies Date: 06 Jan 08 - 05:34 PM "Obama has admitted drug use." 1) Exactly--before it became a blockbuster scandal. It can be no surprise "unearthed" by Rush or his friends. 2) Any drug use was at least 20 years ago---and he has clearly rejected it totally now--in fact, did so back then. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Ron Davies Date: 06 Jan 08 - 05:40 PM Dianavan- So sorry you don't think Obama treated the Republican debates with the gravity you think they deserved. A lot of us--Americans, not people commenting from the outside----think he has a great sense of humor--and has his priorities straight. And in order for him to comment seriously, it would be good to know who his actual opponent in the general election would be--which is unclear now, you may note. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Little Hawk Date: 06 Jan 08 - 05:45 PM Every single young person I ever knew 20 years ago had had some kind of limited experience of drug use on some occasion. Talk about a tempest in a teapot! The hypocrisy of people using this kind of thing against other people when they themselves are probably addicted to their dialy dose of caffiene, sugar, alcohol, maybe cigarettes....it's just astounding that they can point the finger at someone else over such matters. But it's typical human nature that they would, because what people really hate to see in someone else is often what is hidden in their own nature. And other than that, those who issue such attacks are just plain unscrupulous in the first place. Their urge is not to accomplish justice, but to do harm to someone else for their own gain. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Amos Date: 06 Jan 08 - 05:55 PM The issue with ruthless, no-holds-barred assaults such as the Republicans have often demonstrated in seeking permanent ascendancy and unqualified power, is not whether the assault team has any legitimate grounds, or not. Better if they do not but they will bend over backwards to invent some. The entire remedy is in the talent of rendering those assaults null and void in a timely, skilled, impeccable manner. You have to choose when to ignore, when to defuse with quick humor, and when to counterattack with unimpeachable facts that leaves the bullshit dead in the water. You also have to show in comportment that you have more than enough shields to bounce any incoming beams off without strain. Kerry mishandled this to some degree, and so did Gore and Edwards. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Little Hawk Date: 06 Jan 08 - 05:57 PM Yes, that's quite correct, Amos. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Peace Date: 06 Jan 08 - 05:59 PM Many moons ago I wrote that he'd be the next POTUS, and I hope he is. I'd love to see the machine sink into the sh#t it's become and see a good person elected to that important office in Washington. IMO, he's the best they have in the race and I wish him success. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: CarolC Date: 06 Jan 08 - 06:01 PM On the subject of Racism and Senator Obama, what I find interesting and particularly telling about the times in which we live is that when I see racism being directed toward him, it isn't racism against African American/Black people. The kind of racism I'm seeing that is being directed towards him is racism against Muslims. (I know he's not one, but people who are trying to muddy his image are spreading rumors that he is.) What that tells me is that, although racism towards Black people is still very much a problem in our society, it is no longer considered acceptable to be out in the open about it, whereas it is seen as perfectly acceptable to openly practice racism towards Muslims. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Little Hawk Date: 06 Jan 08 - 06:14 PM Excellent point, Carol! It shows who the favorite chosen symbolic "demons" (boogymen) are at the moment, doesn't it? There's always one out there. In the 50's or 60's one was usually accused of being a "Communist" or a "fellow traveler", meaning one who sympathizes with Communism. Now one is accused instead of being a "Muslim" or an "anti-semite". To call someone a "racist", of course, is also a very handy way of destroying his reputation, whether or not it has any real basis in fact. If you try to defend yourself against such accusations, the more you struggle the faster you may sink in the quicksand that the very accusation itself has placed around you. And then there's the demonizing word "socialist" (used that way in the USA only). That negative label has been used by countless Americans to attack countless other Americans ever since the fledling union movements arose after the First World War. There is absolutely NOTHING shameful about being a socialist....but try being one in the USA! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 06 Jan 08 - 06:44 PM Why on Earth should Obama have been paying any serious attention to Republican candidates messing around together? They aren't his opponents at this point. ......................... I was amused to see some stuff about "likability" as an issue in this Times Online story - with Clinton almost trying to spin the suggestion that Obama is more "likable" than she is as a weak point: ""In 2000, we unfortunately ended up with a president who people said they wanted to have a beer with, who said he wanted to be a uniter not a divider " Though I remember at the time, in common I suspect with most people outside the USA anyway, I found the suggestion that Bush was "likable" and the kind of person you'd want to have at a social get-together quite astonishing. The kind of parties where he'd be the life and would would have to be well worth missing. And that's not being biassed about politics - from what I've seen of him Huckabee would be welcome enough at a party. And he seems more at ease playing that bass than Bill Clinton ever did with that sax. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Riginslinger Date: 06 Jan 08 - 06:51 PM It's kind of hard to play the sax and smile at the same time, so any politician would naturally be at a disadvantage. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Little Hawk Date: 06 Jan 08 - 06:52 PM Perhaps it is not too late to get Huckabee and Bill Clinton to join forces and start up a bipartisan musical group for veteran politicians.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Amos Date: 06 Jan 08 - 06:56 PM Mister H is not an inspired bass player but he sounded competent. That lead dude was not an easy act to fall in with. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 06 Jan 08 - 07:03 PM With Tony Blair on guitar... Idi Amin used to play the squeezebox. But pretty badly. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Ron Davies Date: 06 Jan 08 - 10:23 PM CNN poll: Sunday 6 Jan: Of likely New Hampshire voters: Obama 39% Clinton 29% Biggest change is in "electability" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Amos Date: 06 Jan 08 - 10:51 PM Wow!! If he sweeps NH like he did Ioway, he's going to be almost unstoppable!! A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Ron Davies Date: 06 Jan 08 - 10:56 PM Exactly. If these numbers hold up--and I think they don't take independents into consideration--where he's also likely to do well--that may be it for Hillary. The professional pols know a winner when they see one--in fact that's the only reason they're now with her. Her invincibility aura was already shattered by Iowa--and now it looks like it's totally gone. Obviously, we'll see. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Amos Date: 06 Jan 08 - 11:04 PM "AFTER so many years of fear and loathing, we had almost forgotten what itÕs like to feel good about our country. On Thursday night, that long-dormant emotion came rushing back, like an old dream that pops out of the deepest recesses of memory, suddenly as clear as light. ÒThey said this day would never come,Ó said Barack Obama, and yet here, right before us, was indisputable evidence that it had. What felt good was not merely the improbable and historic political triumph of an African-American candidate carrying a state with a black population of under 3 percent. It was the palpable sense that our history was turning a page whether or not Mr. Obama or his doppelgŠnger in improbability, Mike Huckabee, end up in the White House. We could allow ourselves a big what-if: What if we could have an election that was not a referendum on either the Clinton or Bush presidencies? For the first time, we found ourselves on that long-awaited bridge to the 21st century, the one that was blown up in the ninth month of the new millenniumÕs maiden year." NY Times column |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: artbrooks Date: 06 Jan 08 - 11:38 PM When did Islam become a race? Islam is a religion which encompasses all of the "races" into which humans erroneously divide themselves. "Racism against Muslims" is a lot like racism against Christians. And, by the way, "Hispanic" is a matter of linguistic and cultural identity - it is also not a race. My son-in-law is very pale skinned and has red hair; he is from Panama and is a Hispanic. There are very dark-skinned (aka "black") Hispanics from Santo Domingo and lighter colored Hispanics from Mexico. Hispanics from Spain are mostly physically indistinguishable from Italians. There are also Hispanics of Asian descent - such as Alberto Fujimori. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Little Hawk Date: 06 Jan 08 - 11:56 PM I don't know that anyone said Islam was a race. The comments you are alluding to most likely had to do with various forms of prejudice against Islam and against Hispanics, I should think. The point being that when people are heavily prejudiced against any identifiable cultural group of any kind whatsoever (religious, racial, cultural, tribal, political, language, lifestyle, sexual orientation, clothing style, you name it...) they then tend to behave toward those people quite similarly to the way a racist behaves...that is, they demonstrate unthinking prejudice BASED on the group's outward identity. And we all know that, right? It's bloody well obvious. In other words, artbrooks, you're not telling anyone here anything they don't already know when you say that Islamic peoples are not a race and Hispanic peoples are not a race. Neither are Jews...and God knows, we went through that discussion enough times in the past, didn't we? But if prejudiced people ACT like they're a race, then it gets just like racism in effect, doesn't it? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Ron Davies Date: 07 Jan 08 - 07:51 AM Consensus of surveys now show about a 4 point Obama advantage over Hillary. 5 point advantage of McCain over Romney. So the ground has definitely shifted. McCain obviously would be Obama's strongest opponent. But Hillary's "experience"" allegation is a Potemkin village--and would be no help for her against McCain. Obama's "change" approach would still be effective. And there's talk that Rig's boy, Lou Dobbs, may enter the race. That would be icing on the cake for Obama--Dobbs would split off the anti-immigration fire-eaters--mainly Republicans. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Ron Davies Date: 07 Jan 08 - 07:51 AM "Consensus....now shows" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 07 Jan 08 - 08:00 AM Be fair Little Hawk - in her post at 06 Jan 08 - 06:01 PM Carol C did use the expression "racism against Muslims", and artbrooks post reads as if it refers back to that. Obviously Islam isn't a "race", but then "black" isn't a "race" either, insofar as that word has any real meaning at all. However prejudice and hostility can readily be transferred from one way of categorising people to another. If the kind of labels that get classed as "racist" become tricky to use, because of legislation or public perception, labels based on other criteria, such as religion, are often used instead. But the mindset is essentially the same. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Ron Davies Date: 07 Jan 08 - 08:03 AM Obviously, what I should have said is that Dobbs' entry actually would make McCain's victory in the primaries more likely--thus is not good for any Democrat--since he's by far the strongest opponent. But if Dobbs were to stay through the general election, that would help any Democrat. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Ron Davies Date: 07 Jan 08 - 08:04 AM But Dobbs is playing coy anyway. |
