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BS: Popular Views on Obama
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Riginslinger Date: 16 Mar 08 - 01:08 PM Reverend Wright! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Amos Date: 16 Mar 08 - 01:11 PM Gotta get your mileage where you can, don't you? Shrill, illogical, over-associative fearmongering the best you can come up with? Didn't you get tired of character assassination back when your gal Hill was being hounded by jackals about Whitewater and Vince Foster? Does it occur to you that there might be a better way to do politics than this sort of limbic buttonpushing? A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Amos Date: 16 Mar 08 - 02:39 PM Later in the day, Rush Limbaugh dwelled on Mr. Wright in his radio program, calling him Òa race-baiter and a hatemonger.Ó In the statement he released a few hours later, Mr. Obama, known for his uplifting messages about national unity, professed a certain innocence about his pastorÕs most incendiary messages. ÒThe statements that Rev. Wright made that are the cause of this controversy were not statements I personally heard him preach while I sat in the pews of Trinity or heard him utter in private conversation,Ó he said. I gotta say, for Rush to accuse others of mongering hate is quite a sight! A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Riginslinger Date: 16 Mar 08 - 02:43 PM Yes, I certainly agree with you on Limbaugh. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Amos Date: 16 Mar 08 - 05:20 PM Senator Barack Obama on Thursday released a list of $740 million in earmarked spending requests that he had made over the last three years, and his campaign challenged Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton to do the same. Multimedia Graphic Some Pet Projects Related ObamaÕs Earmark Requests for Fiscal Year 2008 (obama.senate.gov) ObamaÕs Earmark Requests for Fiscal Years 2007 and 2006 (barackobama.com) Blog The Caucus The latest political news from around the nation. Join the discussion. Candidate Topic Pages More Politics News Enlarge This Image Doug Mills/The New York Times Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton in the halls of the Capitol after a vote. The list included $1 million for a hospital where Mr. ObamaÕs wife works, money for several projects linked to campaign donors and support for more than 200 towns, civic institutions and universities in Illinois. But as the Senate debated a bill to restrict the controversial method of paying for home-state projects Ñ a measure defeated Thursday evening Ñ Mr. ObamaÕs presidential campaign also said that only about $220 million worth of his requests had been approved by Congress. And among those that had been killed were his request in 2006 for $1 million for an expansion of the University of Chicago Medical Center, where Mr. ObamaÕs wife, Michelle, is a vice president. Mr. ObamaÕs aides and officials at the hospital said Mr. ObamaÕs wife had had nothing to do with the request. Campaign officials said he had voluntarily released the list of his earmark requests to underscore his promise to bring greater openness and transparency to government, an issue on which he has tried to put Mrs. Clinton on the defensive. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Amos Date: 16 Mar 08 - 05:22 PM PLAINFIELD, Ind. Ð Senator Barack Obama repudiated the ÒincendiaryÓ remarks of his former minister today, imploring Americans to set aside racial divisions and heed the words that Robert F. Kennedy delivered not far from here the night the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. was assassinated. ÒAt that moment of anguish, he said weÕve got a choice in taking the rage and bitterness and disappointment and letting it fester and dividing us further, so that we no longer see each other as Americans, but we see each other as separate and apart and at odds with each other,Ó Mr. Obama said. ÒOr we can take a different path.Ó See this page for the complete remarks by Mister Obama. Worth the quick read. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Amos Date: 16 Mar 08 - 05:31 PM ÒWe all made this journey for a reason. ItÕs humbling, but in my heart I know you didnÕt come here just for me, you came here because you believe in what this country can be. In the face of war, you believe there can be peace. In the face of despair, you believe there can be hope. In the face of a politics thatÕs shut you out, thatÕs told you to settle, thatÕs divided us for too long, you believe we can be one people, reaching for whatÕs possible, building that more perfect union.Ó ÒIt was here, in Springfield, where North, South, East and West come together that I was reminded of the essential decency of the American people Ñ where I came to believe that through this decency, we can build a more hopeful America. And that is why, in the shadow of the Old State Capitol, where Lincoln once called on a divided house to stand together, where common hopes and common dreams still, I stand before you today to announce my candidacy for President of the United States.Ó ÒEach and every time, a new generation has risen up and done whatÕs needed to be done. Today we are called once more Ñ and it is time for our generation to answer that call. For that is our unyielding faith Ñ that in the face of impossible odds, people who love their country can change it.Ó ÒThe life of a tall, gangly, self-made Springfield lawyer tells us that a different future is possible. He tells us that there is power in words. He tells us that there is power in conviction. That beneath all the differences of race and region, faith and station, we are one people. He tells us that there is power in hope.Ó ÒIf you sense, as I sense, that the time is now to shake off our slumber, and slough off our fear, and make good on the debt we owe past and future generations, then IÕm ready to take up the cause, and march with you, and work with you. Together, starting today, let us finish the work that needs to be done, and usher in a new birth of freedom on this Earth.Ó Barack Obama in Springfield, Feb 2008 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Amos Date: 16 Mar 08 - 09:10 PM A Sound Bite with Teeth (NY Times) makes for an interesting read -- the complete reversal of a cliched performance and a moment of viral "truth". A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: GUEST,guest Date: 16 Mar 08 - 09:34 PM Has the issue of a possible Obama assassination been raised here?: While a news report that the Secret Service had stopped scanning participants at a Feb. 20 rally in Dallas's Reunion Arena sparked criticism on the Internet, Blackford, the Secret Service spokesman, said the agency never intended to put everyone through magnetometers.... http://news.yahoo.com/s/bloomberg/20080311/pl_bloomberg/ajovqopnnsq0 I just learned recently that John F. Kennedy Jr. told Hillary Clinton that HE planned to run for the senate seat she now occupies, and look at what happened to him. He wouldn't have had to make one public appearance, and he would have won. The official report of his crash was falsified, and many believe the Clinton/Bush cartel was responsible for the death. That would explain why Ted Kennedy (surprisingly, to me), jumped on Obama's bandwagon so quickly. But back to the article above...Dallas, lax security. Where have we seen that before? And if they whack Obama, they can blame anyone they want. In Texas they could have blamed a Mexican national and started a race war. Or the tried and true KKK. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Amos Date: 16 Mar 08 - 09:41 PM I don't know what ou think was falsified; he was a green pilot who made a well-known error in dealing with a false horizon and failed to use his instruments (he was VFR-only rated) to solve his situation before he corkscrewed. To answer your question, yes, the possibility of Obama being assassinated has been discussed on one of these threads. I am not sure what you think we should do about this possibility. His nature seems to be to accept that risk. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Riginslinger Date: 16 Mar 08 - 11:38 PM The death of John Kennedy Jr. was one of the saddest things in history, but I've never heard anyone blamed for it. I don't see any reason to think that it was anything other than what Amos says it was. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Amos Date: 17 Mar 08 - 10:12 AM THe Seattle Times: "It may be that he has just the right mix of confidence and humility to lead the nation (Obama likes to say, "I'm reminded every day that I'm not a perfect man"). But if the young senator wins the nomination, even the smallest trace of arrogance will be an issue with voters who still consider him a blank slate. That may seem unfair to a candidate who's running against Clinton, the former first lady who is the model of overbearing pride. This is a woman, after all, who claims experience from her eight years as first lady but won't release her White House records; who trails Obama in delegates but deigned to suggest he'd be her running mate; and who has more baggage than Samsonite yet says Obama lacks "vetting." But voters expect arrogance from Clinton and her husband, Bill. It's part of the package. It's a 90s-thing. The Clintons' utter self-absorption comes with a record of achievement and brass-knuckle passion that Obama cannot match _ and that Democratic voters know could come in handy against GOP nominee-in-waiting John McCain. Voters won't cut Obama as much slack on the humility test because he's sold himself as something different. While rejecting the "me"-centric status quo and promising a new era of post-partisan reform, Obama has said the movement he has created is not about him; it's about what Americans can do together if their faith in government is restored. The power of his message lies in its humility. As he told 7,000 supporters at a rally last month, "I am an imperfect vessel for your hopes and dreams." Nobody expects Obama to be perfect. But he better never forget that he isn't." MEanwhile in Indiana, Obama promised to focus on three priorities: a responsible withdrawal of troops from Iraq, health-care reforms that will cut premiums for the average family by $2,500 annually and an energy plan to reduce reliance on foreign oil. "If we don't take care of those three things," Obama said, "we won't be able to afford any of the other initiatives that we're talking about because we will be broke." The crowd that packed the gymnasium punctuated his remarks several times with chants of "Yes, we can," three words that have become a trademark of Obama's campaign. That optimism for change, he said, is what has driven his campaign since he launched it early last year. As a 46-year-old man who has represented Illinois in the U.S. Senate since 2004, Obama said some people question why he didn't wait longer to run for the White House. "I remind them of what Dr. (Martin Luther) King called the fierce urgency of now, because I believe there is such a thing as being too late, and that hour is almost upon us," Obama said. "I believe that if we can come together that there is no challenge we can't face now. There is no destiny we cannot fulfill. "After having run now for 13 months . . . I am here to report that the people are ready for change." The words brought the crowd to its feet, one of about a dozen roaring standing ovations Obama received. Moments later, though, the gym fell still and silent, as Obama recalled one of the rare other times that Indiana's primary election mattered. That was 1968. Sen. Robert Kennedy, visiting Indianapolis to campaign for the presidency, broke the news to an inner-city crowd that King had been assassinated. Kennedy, Obama recalled, told people that "we've got a choice in taking the rage and bitterness and disappointment and letting it fester and dividing us further . . . or we can take a different path." Obama said he has thought of those words often in the past few weeks as the campaign has become more heated. "The forces of division have started to raise their ugly heads again," he said. "Everybody senses there's been this shift." He then cited the controversy over comments made by the man he now calls his "former pastor," the Rev. Jeremiah Wright of Chicago, including Wright's suggestion that the United States' policies had provoked the 9/11 attacks and that the nation is racist. Obama said he rejected Wright's "incendiary" words, and renewed his call for diverse people to come together. Yes, we can. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Peace Date: 17 Mar 08 - 10:18 AM By Steve Brusk and Alex Mooney CNN Editor's Note: The following report contains objectionable language. (CNN) -- The Rev. Jeremiah Wright's former church criticized the news media Sunday for coverage of his sermons, saying in a statement that Wright's "character is being assassinated in the public sphere." Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, Illinois, defended Wright, saying he "has preached a social gospel on behalf of oppressed women, children and men in America and around the globe." The statement came two days after Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama, a longtime friend of Wright and attendee of the church, denounced sermons that have become the subject of recent controversy. Obama called them "inflammatory and appalling." "It is an indictment on Dr. Wright's ministerial legacy to present his global ministry within a 15- or 30-second sound bite," the Rev. Otis Moss III, the current pastor of the church, said in the statement. "The African-American Church was born out of the crucible of slavery, and the legacy of prophetic African-American preachers since slavery has been and continues to heal broken, marginalized victims of social and economic injustices," Moss added. "This is an attack on the legacy of the African-American Church, which led and continues to lead the fight for human rights in America and around the world." In the same statement, the Rev. John H. Thomas, the general minister and president of the United Church of Christ -- the denomination to which Wright's church belongs -- said the news media were creating a "caricature" of his congregation. "It's time for us to say 'No' to these attacks and declare that we will not allow anyone to undermine or destroy the ministries of any of our congregations in order to serve their own narrow political or ideological ends," Thomas said. The sermons in question became the subject of scrutiny last week after being highlighted in an ABC News report. At one December service, Wright argued Clinton's road to the White House is easier than Obama's because of her skin color. "Hillary was not a black boy raised in a single-parent home; Barack was," Wright says in a video of the sermon posted on YouTube. "Barack knows what it means to be a black man living in a country and a culture that is controlled by rich white people. Hillary! Hillary ain't never been called a 'nigger!' Hillary has never had her people defined as a non-person." Wright, who retired this year from his post, also says in the video, "Who cares about what a poor black man has to face every day in a country and in a culture controlled by rich white people?" In denouncing those sermons Friday, Obama defended his 20-year relationship with Wright, saying that the pastor has served him in a spiritual role -- not a political one. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Amos Date: 17 Mar 08 - 10:20 AM "...But the conservatives have it wrong - again. The last person the likes of Osama bin Laden wants to see in the White House is Barack Obama. If anti-American terrorists had their choice, Dick Cheney would be president. Our enemy needs a hawk in the White House, someone almost everybody in the Middle East can hate from day one. Almost any white person will do, even a woman. But not Obama. The problem Obama presents to terrorists leaders in the Middle East and in Africa is formidable. Of course, they will hate whoever becomes president, including Obama, who they will merely paint as a dupe of Wall Street. But Obama threatens terrorist leaders because he appeals to moderates in the Islamic world. He will have instant credibility in both the Middle East and Africa because his middle name is Hussein and because he is black and, of course, because of his opposition to the war in Iraq from the very start. For these reasons, Obama presents a much more difficult target for anti-American venom. Obama is the only candidate for president who, because of his race, can bring peace to the Middle East. He also is the only candidate who, because of his race, will neutralize terrorists in Africa, where many have found support and cover. Our failure to engage Africa has been one of America's biggest errors in international diplomacy and economic engagement. By our neglect, we helped to give terrorism a foothold on the continent. But Africa is not insignificant in world politics. Others realize this if we do not. Africa has oil, lots of it, and some of the world's most precious natural resources. But other than cursory visits to Africa by American presidents in recent years, we practically ignore the continent until some calamity (man-made or natural) occurs, and even then give our attention only as long as the misery appears on our television screens. But Obama's grandmother lives in Kenya! If he becomes president, when he goes to see grandma the continent will melt in his hands. But our accomplishments in Africa will pale in comparison to what will be achieved in the Middle East. With Obama in the White House and our enemies marginalized, our prestige and influence in the Middle East will enter a new and historic phase. ..." An interesting, if highly optimistic, perspective from the Tampa Tribune. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Amos Date: 17 Mar 08 - 10:26 AM "*** Full disclosure: After releasing all of Obama's Rezko records and sitting with Chicago Tribune and Chicago Sun-Times reporters on Friday, the Obama campaign has upped the ante for Team Clinton. Yesterday, the Obama camp asked Clinton to release all of her tax records, disclose all of her earmarks, and make the donations to the Clinton presidential library and foundation public. The Clinton camp, in response, says Obama should release his tax returns for every year he's been in public office and every earmark he requested as a state senator. The pushback is obvious: try to cloud the lack of disclosure in the Clinton campaign with questions of lack of disclosure on the Obama front. This is the road the Obama campaign clearly wants to go down. The question is whether bareknuckles politics ultimately hurts Obama's image or whether a fight for disclosure brings back the bad news of the Clinton years Democratic voters -- and superdelegates -- might be tired of. *** Clinton's super problem: By our count, the Clinton campaign hasn't publicly announced the support of a new superdelegate since just after February 5. Indeed, since Super Tuesday, Obama has gained 47 new superdelegates, while Clinton has lost seven (including Eliot Spitzer). Does Clinton have a bigger problem on the superdelegate front than folks realize?..." (MSNBC) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Amos Date: 17 Mar 08 - 12:10 PM "We Republican agitators of the mid 1970s to the late 1980s were genuinely anti-American in the same spirit that later Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson (both followers of my father) were anti-American when they said God had removed his blessing from America on 9/11, because America accepted gays. Falwell and Robertson recanted but we never did. My dad's books denouncing America and comparing the USA to Hitler are still best sellers in the "respectable" evangelical community and he's still hailed as a prophet by many Republican leaders. When Mike Huckabee was recently asked by Katie Couric to name one book he'd take with him to a desert island, besides the Bible, he named Dad's Whatever Happened to the Human Race? a book where Dad also compared America to Hitler's Germany. The hypocrisy of the right denouncing Obama, because of his minister's words, is staggering. They are the same people who argue for the right to "bear arms" as "insurance" to limit government power. They are the same people that (in the early 1980s roared and cheered when I called down damnation on America as "fallen away from God" at their national meetings where I was keynote speaker, including the annual meeting of the ultraconservative Southern Baptist convention, and the religious broadcasters that I addressed. Today we have a marriage of convenience between the right wing fundamentalists who hate Obama, and the "progressive" Clintons who are playing the race card through their own smear machine. As Jane Smiley writes in the Huffington Post "[The Clinton's] are, indeed, now part of the 'vast right wing conspiracy.' (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jane-smiley/im-already-against-the-n_b_90628.html ) Both the far right Republicans and the stop-at-nothing Clintons are using the "scandal" of Obama's preacher to undermine the first black American candidate with a serious shot at the presidency. Funny thing is, the racist Clinton/Far Right smear machine proves that Obama's minister had a valid point. There is plenty to yell about these days." (Frank Schaeffer, writing here in the Huiffington Post, is a writer and author of "CRAZY FOR GOD-How I Grew Up As One Of The Elect, Helped Found The Religious Right, And Lived To Take All (Or Almost All) Of It Back") |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Amos Date: 17 Mar 08 - 02:00 PM QUOTE OF THE DAY: "This is the first time in a long time that I've really had any hope about the political system in America." — Jennifer Heinzelman, who attended a weekend Barack Obama speech and campaign rally with her 8-year-old daughter, Haley, in Plainfield, Ind. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Amos Date: 17 Mar 08 - 04:49 PM (CNN) -- A majority of Democrats would like to see Barack Obama rather than Hillary Clinton win their party's presidential nomination, according to a national poll out Monday. 1 of 2 Fifty-two percent of registered Democrats questioned in a new CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey say the senator from Illinois is their choice for president, with 45 percent supporting Clinton. The poll also suggests Democrats are more enthusiastic about an Obama victory (45 percent) than for a victory by the senator from New York (38 percent). The two remaining major candidates for the Democratic presidential nomination are locked in a fierce battle for their party's presidential nomination, with Obama holding a slight lead both in delegates and the overall popular vote in the primaries and caucuses to date. "The same patterns that we have been seeing in recent exit polls are holding true for Democrats nationwide as well. Obama's biggest support comes from men, younger voters and independents who lean Democratic," CNN polling director Keating Holland said. "Clinton does best among women, older voters and whites. One interesting difference, unlike the exit polls in many states, there is no difference in the national poll between college-educated Democrats and those who never attended college." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 17 Mar 08 - 06:38 PM Quite a follow up speech from Derrick Ashong, to whom Amos pointed us with A Sound Bite with Teeth - here's Why I Support Obama - The Emotional Response |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: beardedbruce Date: 18 Mar 08 - 08:01 AM Washington Post: The Wright Question Sen. Barack Obama's teachable moment. Tuesday, March 18, 2008; Page A18 THIS MORNING in Philadelphia, Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) will try to put the controversy over the charged rhetoric of the Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. behind him. The front-runner for the Democratic Party's nomination for president has his work cut out for him. The almost-daily demands for denunciations and repudiations of comments made by supporters of Mr. Obama and Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) have become wearying. We long for a return to a vigorous debate about kitchen-table issues facing the nation. But the explosive sermons preached by the Rev. Wright that have come to light require the speech Mr. Obama will deliver today. This passage from a 2003 sermon is particularly troubling: "God damn America -- that's in the Bible -- for killing innocent people. God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme." The cadence is strident. The words are harsh. And the anger with which they are delivered no doubt is disturbing to many. The sermons stand in stark contrast to the vision of America that Mr. Obama espoused in the 2004 Democratic National Convention speech that catapulted him to prominence. "My parents . . . shared an abiding faith in the possibilities of this nation," he said. "They would give me an African name . . . believing that in a tolerant America your name is no barrier to success. . . . They imagined me going to the best schools in the land, even though they weren't rich, because in a generous America you don't have to be rich to achieve your potential. . . . I stand here knowing that my story is part of the larger American story . . . that in no other country on Earth is my story even possible." The relationship between the preacher and the politician is as close as it is complicated. The Rev. Wright recently retired as the pastor of Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago. For 20 years he played spiritual adviser to Mr. Obama, who credits the Rev. Wright with guiding him on a path of faith. He performed Mr. Obama's wedding and baptized the Obamas' two children. Mr. Obama denounced the inflammatory rhetoric. But his explanation -- "the statements that Rev. Wright made that are the cause of the controversy were not statements I personally heard him preach while I sat in the pews . . . or heard him utter in private conversation" -- has not quelled the furor that engulfs him. That's understandable: It's hard to accept that Mr. Obama was entirely unaware of his pastor's bitter analysis of American society. That he did not distance himself from the Rev. Wright until the statements became public is bound to raise legitimate questions. Mr. Obama has presented himself as someone who can help the country overcome its racial divisions. If that is to happen, rhetoric such as the Rev. Wright's cannot be tolerable. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: beardedbruce Date: 18 Mar 08 - 08:03 AM Washington Post: Obama's Pastor Problem By Richard Cohen Tuesday, March 18, 2008; Page A19 Some questions: Why did Barack Obama take so long to "reject outright" the harshly critical statements about America made by his minister, Jeremiah Wright, not to mention the praise the same minister lavished on Louis Farrakhan just last November? How is it possible that Obama did not know about these remarks, when he is a member of Wright's congregation and so close to the man that he likens him to "an old uncle"? How is it possible that a campaign apparatus that sniffed out Geraldine Ferraro's offensive statement to a local California newspaper (the Daily Breeze, 12th paragraph) did not know that Wright's statements condemning America were all over the Internet and had been cited March 6 by the (reputable) anti-Obama columnist Ronald Kessler? The sermon was also available on YouTube. In other words, how is it possible that a man who has made judgment the centerpiece of his presidential campaign has shown so little of it in this matter? One possible answer to these questions is that Obama has learned to rely on a sycophantic media that hears any criticism of him as either (1) racist, (2) vaguely racist or (3) doing the bidding of Hillary and Bill Clinton. You only have to turn your attention to the interview Obama granted MSNBC's fawning Keith Olbermann for an example. Obama was asked whether he had known that Wright had suggested substituting the phrase "God damn America" for "God bless America." "You know, frankly, I didn't," Obama said. "I wasn't in church during the time when the statements were made." But had you heard about them? Did your crack campaign staff alert you? And what about Wright's honoring Farrakhan? Had you heard about that? Did you feel any obligation to denounce those remarks -- not Farrakhan's, as you had done, but those of Wright himself? Don't you consider yourself a public figure whom others look to for leadership? Do you think you failed them here? Olbermann asked none of those questions. In a certain sense, I am sympathetic toward Obama. When he said of Wright, "Because of his life experience, [he] continues to have a lot of anger and frustration, and will express that in ways that are very different from me and my generation," anyone who knows anything about the black experience in America has to nod. The 66-year-old Wright was born when blacks were still being lynched, when Jim Crow ruled the South -- and when raw bigotry prevailed virtually everywhere else. He knows a different America from the one familiar to most whites. I can also understand why Farrakhan has a following in black America. He may be a gutter anti-Semite, but he stands up to whites, and within parts of the African American community, he is admired for, among other things, rehabilitating criminals. So for Obama, Wright posed a dilemma. The minister is well known and respected and, clearly, adored by Obama. His language of resentment, even of hate, has a certain context to Obama. It does not shock. I understand, really I do. But a presidential candidate is not a mere church member, and he operates in a different context. We examine everything about him for the slightest clue about character. On Wright, Obama has shown a worrisome tic. He has done so also with his relationship with Tony Rezko, the shadowy Chicago political figure. Obama last week submitted to a grilling on this matter by the staff of the Chicago Tribune and was given a clean bill of health. I accept it. But that hardly changes the fact that Obama should never have done business with Rezko in the first place. He concedes that now, but it was still a failure of judgment. After I wrote in January about Wright's praise for Farrakhan, I was pilloried by Obama supporters who accused me of all manner of things, including insanity. But when I asked some of them what they would have done if their minister had extolled David Duke, the former Ku Klux Klan official, or Rabbi Meir Kahane, the late anti-Arab racist, they either rejected the question entirely or simply didn't answer. Don't they think that everyone, particularly a public figure, has an obligation to denounce bigotry, as well as those who praise the bigots? As I wrote in that column, the manifest abilities and stunning political talents of Barack Obama still recommend him to the presidency. But he has been less than forthright or responsible about Wright. This does not disqualify him from the White House, but it does suggest that if the vaunted red phone rings at 3 a.m., there might be times when he will simply not answer. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Amos Date: 18 Mar 08 - 09:18 AM Sen. Obama really can�t win the general election." --Clinton strategist Mark Penn "Mark did not say that." --Clinton campaign communications director Howard Wolfson, on the same conference call with reporters |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Bobert Date: 18 Mar 08 - 09:55 AM BTW, the Obama speech is at 10:15 today and will be carried by MSNBC... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Amos Date: 18 Mar 08 - 09:58 AM March 18, 2008Recommend (5) The Rev. Jeremiah Wright Jr. is wrong. But Barack Obama, his most famous parishioner, has it right. Videos snippets of Wright's sermons have surfaced in the last week, sound bites of Wright making ugly and incendiary comments from his South Side pulpit about America, whites, Hillary Clinton and Israel. Obama has not only denounced each statement but today plans to make a major speech about race, politics and the need to come together as a nation. Instead of running from the issue, he's doing damage control and acting like a statesman at the same time. By making what could be a historic address, Obama is forcing a conversation about the all-important American issue of race. It has been an undercurrent of the campaign for months, recently erupting to the surface. It's time to address it head-on. On Friday, Obama removed Wright, who had just retired as pastor of Trinity United Church of Christ after 36 years, from a minor role on a campaign advisory board. That followed a decision last year to rescind an invitation for Wright to give the opening prayer when Obama announced his run for the presidency. But Obama wisely stopped there. He did not sever his ties with Trinity, an institution that does tremendous good in the black community. This is the church where he and Michelle were married and where their daughters were baptized. Walking away would have been politically expedient. Staying with the church can only hurt him. But abandoning his church would have denied a fundamental truth: Wright's words, as ugly as they are, are rooted in the experience of many blacks in America--an experience Obama can't ignore personally and one he certainly doesn't want America to ignore. "It just reminds me that we've got a tragic history when it comes to race in this country," Obama said this weekend. "We've got a lot of pent-up anger and bitterness and misunderstanding." Wright's words also reflect the disparity many blacks feel between the promise of America and their daily reality. "This righteous anger is about making America accountable to its own creed," said Dwight Hopkins, a theology professor at the University of Chicago Divinity School and a Trinity member. ... From the Chicago Sun-TImes, the homie news |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Amos Date: 18 Mar 08 - 10:53 AM Obama's post on Huffington POst includes this simple excerpt: "With Rev. Wright's retirement and the ascension of my new pastor, Rev. Otis Moss, III, Michelle and I look forward to continuing a relationship with a church that has done so much good. And while Rev. Wright's statements have pained and angered me, I believe that Americans will judge me not on the basis of what someone else said, but on the basis of who I am and what I believe in; on my values, judgment and experience to be President of the United States." All of this smoke and fury is not about Obama, but about hell-raising on the part of those who thrive on conflict and cherish animosity. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Amos Date: 18 Mar 08 - 11:24 AM The much awaited speech is going on as I write; and I find it remarkable, and compelling. I have, in the past, gotten tangled up in the noise and fog of combative threads; and in doing so, I had forgotten why I came into the Obama camp in the first place. This speech is an excellent reminder of the man's intellect, and his ACTUAL character in sharp contrast to the slurring shadowy pictures some people would like to throw up for mass consumption. The bottom line, clearly shown throughout this speech, is that he has twice the character and twice the intellect of Ms. Clinton, and has what is required to make a strong positive change. He speaks from reason, and he speaks from wisdom far greater than his years, and far greater than Hillary's years. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Amos Date: 18 Mar 08 - 12:54 PM Forbes, 3-18: In terms of overall appeal, Obama outpolls Clinton 45% to 29%, and her total appeal numbers are falling while his are rising. But even more striking is how the polled population assigns character traits to each of the Democrats. Barack Obama substantially outpolls Hillary Clinton on every positive trait, while Clinton surges past Obama on every negative. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Bobert Date: 18 Mar 08 - 01:00 PM W would have to agree with you, Amos... It was a compelling speech that can only help Obama... He looked and sounded absolutely presidential... If this was his 3:00 in the morning phone call he, IMO, got it right... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Charley Noble Date: 18 Mar 08 - 01:05 PM Here's one of the concluding statements from Obama's speech, as he tells the story of one of his white volunteers who was working in South Carolina in a predominately black community: "Anyway, Ashley finishes her story and then goes around the room and asks everyone else why they're supporting the campaign. They all have different stories and reasons. Many bring up a specific issue. And finally they come to this elderly black man who's been sitting there quietly the entire time. And Ashley asks him why he's there. And he does not bring up a specific issue. He does not say health care or the economy. He does not say education or the war. He does not say that he was there because of Barack Obama. He simply says to everyone in the room, "I am here because of Ashley." "I'm here because of Ashley." By itself, that single moment of recognition between that young white girl and that old black man is not enough. It is not enough to give health care to the sick, or jobs to the jobless, or education to our children." I think it's a very good speech and well worth reading through: click here for speech Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: KB in Iowa Date: 18 Mar 08 - 01:20 PM Do you suppose this episode will put to rest the 'Obama is a Muslim' talk? It should but probably won't. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 18 Mar 08 - 02:05 PM I rather suspect that when Rev Wright said ""God damn America -- that's in the Bible" he'd have been thinking of the version of the Sermon of the Mount in Luke, where after laying out a list of Beatitudes "Blessed are the poor" and so forth, Jesus balances that with a list of "Woe to yous" - "Woe unto you who are rich...who are well fed...when all men speak well of you". In some translations it's even given as "cursed are you", quite as strong as "damn you". The point being, this was essentially biblical rhetoric. That doesn't mean it was the right kind of biblical rhetoric - but set it against this genuinely damnable stuff from a site I found by accident just now, The Curse of Ham: Why Barack Hussein Oboma Will Never Be President - normally I give a taster along with a link, but I won't this time, because I don't like the taste one little bit. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Amos Date: 18 Mar 08 - 02:07 PM Wal, KB, you know how it is. Assholes have a function in life, and they will carry it out regardless of circumstances even unto death... A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Amos Date: 18 Mar 08 - 03:15 PM It's over. Obama is the nominee. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Jack the Sailor Date: 18 Mar 08 - 03:42 PM With this speech, I think this is Obama doing what Kerry failed to during the "Swiftboat" ads and Bush failed to do after 9/11 and Katrina. He is using the controversy to shine a light on a dark corner. He is opening up the conversation and giving the country a chance to finally heal. I don't agree with him on everything but I like his courage and his willingness to lead. He is by far the best choice of the three for President. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Amos Date: 18 Mar 08 - 04:18 PM Blog posts after today's speech: "My wife and I watched Obama's speech this morning. We are independent, secular conservatives and had been completely polarized by the Reverend Wright's rants . If our reactions are any indication, Obama has more than repaired the damage. We both had watery eyes when he finished. My wife called her sister to compare notes She's a fundamentalist Republican. Even she had gotten emotional. She related it to her childhood experience in Eastern Oklahoma where she was treated as white trash with Indian blood. This man is phenomenal. Afterward, we watched the press commentaries for only a few minutes and turned the set off. Nothing they were saying seemed to matter when compared to what we had just heard. Jerry Brown, Huntington, NY Posted by: jerrybrown11743 | March 18, 2008 03:20 PM " "A thoughtful, honest, solemnly paced speech. The Philadelphia Speech may well go down in history as the point at which America engaged in a real and frank discussion of race and racism in our country and where we go from here. Whether or not it helps Obama's election bid, in my mind it has already helped America start moving forward. Posted by: john16 | March 18, 2008 03:21 PM " "This man is simply amazing. His speech demonstrates that his actions match his rhetoric. He is telling us, not what we wanted to hear, but what we needed to hear. I have heard him say he would do this and now understand what he meant. What he said was what we as a country needed to hear about race and racism. It definitely displays his judgement and ability to do what is right for our country. Posted by: mbshults | March 18, 2008 03:30 PM " "Barack Obama is the real deal. It's so easy to go negative on someone speaking the truth to America... that we are all saddled with weaknesses but bound by greater strengths - that we are an imperfect union of far from perfect souls but that we can take all these truths together, for what they are worth, and begin to let go of the divisions that hold us back collectively and march on toward something better for our posterity - for our children - Mine and yours. Barack Obama for President of the UNITED States of America." A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Amos Date: 18 Mar 08 - 04:21 PM ANd: " Posted by: Vaughan1 | March 18, 2008 03:42 PM What I heard in that speech and have heard many times before from Obama was a man who was capable of hearing many things from many people - including the outrageous. A capability of sifting through the words to extract the "right" things while having a tolerance to sit through the outrageous words in order to seek out the basis for where they are coming from. Unlike many, he clearly sees both the good and the bad in Rev Wright and understands how Rev Wright arrived at the place he did. Whether the president is hearing Republicans vs Democrats, Jews vs Muslims, white vs black, etc, Obama, with his candidacy on the line, seems to be unafraid of looking deeper beyond the anger and the rhetoric to try to understand the whole of a man - good & bad and/or his issue and not outright ignore or shun him because he doesn't feel exactly the same way. And at the end of that, Obama stayed true to his honest judgement of what is good, ideal and "right" regardless of what others like the conservative right might think. Obama seems to indicate each side of an issue will get fair consideration while no side will get excluded because they're not perfect. I've seen this long before the Rev Wright problem. It's just a little more obvious with Rev. Wright. Can you imagine a president without those qualities? We've had some. I think Barack proved once again today that he is especially blessed in this quality. It was a remarkable speech. Posted by: cjnwatson | March 18, 2008 03:43 PM " A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: GUEST,Guest Date: 18 Mar 08 - 04:43 PM He has won me over by virute of these - his recent words: http://my.barackobama.com/hisownwords |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Charley Noble Date: 18 Mar 08 - 04:58 PM Gigi- Welcome aboard! This will be one rough voyage though! Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 18 Mar 08 - 06:07 PM I've got a feeling there may be more than oner Gigi around at present...That's the trouble with posting as a GUEST - anyone can sign in using the same handle. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Charley Noble Date: 18 Mar 08 - 08:38 PM McGrath- I'm inclined to agree and raised that very question on the new Obama thread. Maybe Gigi will grace us with a response. I wonder if "guest identity theft" is something our Mudcat moderators can sort out? Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: DannyC Date: 18 Mar 08 - 09:27 PM I've watched this powerful speech several times over the course of the day. What are the little labels the media are seeking to stick onto Obama? 'Lightweight'? 'Message too vague?' Obama's reflective and incisive remarks of earlier today ought to permanently expunge those unfair characterizations about the man and his movement. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Amos Date: 19 Mar 08 - 09:47 AM The speech can be viewed here. If you haven't seen the delivery, please watch it. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Bobert Date: 19 Mar 08 - 09:52 AM Before I throw open my arms to GG, I want to be sure I'm hugging the right (correct) GG... Seems there are at least a couple floatin' 'round... One I know is a teacher and the other a somewhat cynical person... Doesn't seem that these two folks is one of the same... But who knows??? B;~) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Amos Date: 19 Mar 08 - 10:28 AM Historians and others described the speechÕs candidness on race as almost without precedent. John Hope Franklin, a Duke University historian who led an advisory commission on race relations set up by President Bill Clinton, said Mr. Obama pointed out how easily the question of race can be distorted in this country, Òwhich has three centuries of experience with it and yet we act like this is something new.Ó Julian Bond, the longtime civil rights activist, said the speech moved him to tears. Orlando Patterson, a professor of sociology at Harvard, said he believed the speech would Ògo down as one of the great, magnificent and moving speeches in the American political tradition.Ó ÒI hear so many people saying we want a national conversation on race but itÕs never quite worked,Ó he said. ÒHe was able to do this in one speech. But he was able to do it in a nonpartisan way in that he saw both sides.Ó (NYT) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Charley Noble Date: 19 Mar 08 - 10:58 AM Bobart and McGrath- Seems as if there is not a current case of "identity thief" with regard to Gigi. We just may have another complex person to deal with. Life is hard! Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Bobert Date: 19 Mar 08 - 05:44 PM How do you spell "multiple personalitie"??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Riginslinger Date: 20 Mar 08 - 08:20 AM To get a popular view of Obama, all one has to do is turn on Fox News. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Charley Noble Date: 20 Mar 08 - 09:28 AM I declare an intermission: Would someone please play "Fox on the Run"? Sorry about your coffee... Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Donuel Date: 20 Mar 08 - 09:45 AM I see and sense a unified attempt by all the cable news networks to show a clear reversal of Barak's fortune. They repeat polls showing the opposite numbers from 2 weeks ago. They speak of a Clinton miracle. They are speaking of Obama's goose being cooked. (A thread I can no longer find on mudcat) Every hedge fund billionaire who have hopes of being bailed out by the Fed cringe at the thought of Barak's probabal call for regulations that would prevent the bankrupting of American by a handful of investment banks for a quick profit. I speak of the tone and timbre of the cable news harangue against Obama more than substance of thier news. The often repeated words and phrases are: Naive, took no action, threw grandmother under the bus, threw pastor under the bus, and of course more video clips of a previously unknown pastor than MLK on MLK day. imho: The banks that own the news know that Hillary will play ball just like Bill did with NAFTA and imbalanced Chinese trade. Obama scares the hell out of them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama From: Jack the Sailor Date: 20 Mar 08 - 10:24 AM Fox News is Rupert Murdoch, who literally stole from his own mother. He's gotta have mixed feelings. McCain wins he gets the regulations he wants. Mrs. Clinton wins he gets the ratings. But Obama is lose lose. |
