BS: Popular Views on Obama

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 14 May 08 - 08:23 PM

Edwards has come out in support of Obama.

Your remark -- Rig -- is a sour, bitter thing to say at a moment of clear good fortune.

Ptui.



A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Bobert
Date: 14 May 08 - 09:04 PM

How you figure, Rigs???

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Riginslinger
Date: 14 May 08 - 10:13 PM

I think if Edwards had have endorsed earlier on, it wouldn't be so slimy.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Ron Davies
Date: 14 May 08 - 10:21 PM

Well, Rig, you're certainly an expert on slime. CEO of Smears R Us and all. But your merchandise is a bit threadbare.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 14 May 08 - 11:19 PM

You hav eno idea what cojnsiderations may have been involved in Edwards' mind when he decided to move now instead of earlier-- none at all. So your assertion of slime is purely a projection.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 May 08 - 08:36 AM

It will be interesting to see how universal that projection turns out to be.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 15 May 08 - 09:20 AM

A few comments from various readers of the NY Times:

I've voted republican in every election I could in the past. No more, I'm voting Obama. He is more liberal than I like but we have to take back the country from these far-right nutjobs who don't flinch at holding American citizens without trial and think they can look at what I check out of the library without a warrant. America was once a beacon of freedom but now we're known for Gitmo and torture. Disgusting…

— Posted by Don
9.May 14th,
2008
5:22 pm Gosh, what are the Repubs gonna do if all their "fear and innuendo" TV ads dont work ?? If the good ol' buzzwords such as government waste, terrorists, and liberal dont……buzz.

I guess they could come clean and run ads explaining their positions. Facts. Oh wait, many of their policies only benefit the healthy & wealthy. And, gosh, a lot of voters …aren't.

— Posted by Nick
10.May 14th,
2008
5:24 pm The GOP is on the track following Bush not realizing that the bright light ahead is an oncoming train. McCain actually thinks he, as Bush III, is the GOP savior! If the Party wants to remain a force in American politics, they have to address these major issues with their base. All I see is them blindly pushing an agenda that is distasteful to most Americans and alienating more Republican voters than they can afford. Either they are incredibly stupid or they believe the American people are.

— Posted by E


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 May 08 - 10:23 AM

Washington Post:

For Obama, a Lost Moment

By David S. Broder
Thursday, May 15, 2008; Page A15

Barack Obama really didn't need a victory in West Virginia. He was already well on his way to wrapping up the Democratic nomination, and the 28 delegates at stake were not going to change that picture, no matter how that primary came out.

But he should have competed there, if only to signal his awareness of its special place in Democratic history. Forty-eight years ago, it was West Virginia more than any other state that propelled John Kennedy into the White House. And it did so in a way that Obama should have wanted to emulate.

Admittedly, I have a bias. That 1960 primary race between Kennedy and Hubert Humphrey was my introduction to presidential politics. As a new reporter at the Washington Star, I did not get to Wisconsin for the first round of the Kennedy-Humphrey battle. But I didn't miss much. Kennedy won the Catholic areas of the state, including Milwaukee, Racine, Kenosha and the Fox River Valley. Humphrey dominated the Protestant farm counties from the middle of the state to the Minnesota border.

With Democratic leaders trying to gauge whether Kennedy would fall victim to the same prejudice that undercut Al Smith, the first Catholic nominee, in 1928, Wisconsin gave no clear answer.

So the two young senators packed their bags and headed for West Virginia.

That state seemed made-to-order for Humphrey. Chronically poor, its residents relied on New Deal programs to survive. A former Klan redoubt, many of its voters were suspicious of Catholics. The mineworkers and other unions were solidly in Humphrey's corner. The state's main power broker, Sen. Robert Byrd, was backing Humphrey in hopes of blocking Kennedy and opening the way for his friend Lyndon Johnson to jump into the race and capture the nomination at the Los Angeles convention.

Despite the odds, Kennedy did not hesitate. In reality, he had no choice but to tackle Humphrey in West Virginia; only by winning there could he persuade the men who controlled state delegations from California to New York to give him a chance.

Kennedy had two resources he could deploy. He was rolling in money, thanks to his father's wealth, and money talked in West Virginia. The custom was that whoever was most generous would find himself "slated" by the local Democratic organizations. When I got to Beckley, the coal-mining city where the Star sent me to examine the battle on the ground, I found that the Raleigh County sheriff, nominally supporting Humphrey, had decided -- for unexplained reasons -- that it was not in his interest to turn out a big vote against Kennedy.

And Kennedy had lots and lots of volunteers. In Beckley, his kid brother Ted and Ben Smith, the family friend who would later serve as interim senator between John and Ted Kennedy, were manning a headquarters overflowing with young people recruited from the local parish.

All of the energy was on the underdog Kennedy's side -- and that is what the voters responded to. As I interviewed on downtown sidewalks and country lanes, it became clear that Kennedy could pull off an upset -- and he did.

I would have liked to have seen Obama attempt a similar feat. It would have been difficult, but he might have pulled it off. Hillary Clinton, like Humphrey, was about out of money, while Obama, like Kennedy, had plenty of cash. And Obama, like Kennedy, had more available young volunteers than he could possibly deploy.

But because he did not have to win this test, while Kennedy did, Obama played it safe and made only a token effort in West Virginia.

That was a rational, prudent decision. He has other and better opportunities to write a finish to this campaign. Next week, Kentucky may be difficult for Obama, but Oregon -- a classic yuppie state with a fondness for smart, low-key politicians -- should be easy pickings. The delegates he will win there could virtually clinch the nomination.

But, like Kennedy, Obama has questions he needs to answer.

He has seen doubts grow about his ability to win working-class white votes. West Virginia could have helped put those doubts to rest. Now they will remain until the fall.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 15 May 08 - 11:07 AM

I think John Edwards' support, which your article seems to overlook completely, will do a lot to offset that alleged vulnerabililty.

I say alleged, because I am not convinced that what drove the West Virginia numbers was actually the categorical imperatives of being "
white and working class".

I am not convinced that these demographical bloc analyses have all that much merit, as the individual voters have other reasons as well as their personal pigeonholes on which they may be basing their decisions at the booth.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 15 May 08 - 01:40 PM

WASHINGTON: The United Steelworkers union endorsed Democrat Barack Obama for president Thursday, giving the Illinois senator a powerful advocate in attracting blue-collar voters.

The endorsement comes one day after former presidential candidate and Steelworker ally John Edwards endorsed Obama, a key component in the union's decision to go with the Democratic front-runner. The union had earlier endorsed Edwards, who threw his support to Obama Wednesday night.

"We find ourselves once again in agreement with Senator Edwards, this time with his decision last evening to endorse Senator Barack Obama," the union said in a statement. "And thus today, the United Steelworkers enthusiastically endorses Senator Barack Obama to be the next president of the United States."

The Steelworkers are the second union that endorsed Edwards to now go with Obama. The 200,000-member Transport Workers Union earlier switched and endorsed Obama.

The United Brotherhood of Carpenters and Joiners and the United Mine Workers union — who also endorsed Edwards — have not made new endorsements in the race.

Today in Americas
Bush issues veiled attack on ObamaJohn Edwards endorses ObamaChicago repeals ban on sales of foie grasObama and his presidential rival, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, have been courting the 600,000 member Steelworkers union since Edwards dropped out of the race. The union's executive board, however, was unanimous in picking Obama for its endorsement.

"All of us, including we hope Senator Clinton for whom we have the utmost respect, must now do everything we can to ensure that Barack Obama is the next president of the United States," the union said. "Now is the time for contention and division to cease, and for us to unite behind the changes for which Senator Obama and our members are calling."

(Int Herald Trib)

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 15 May 08 - 05:39 PM

Yesterday a top official from Swift Boat Veterans For TruthÑyes, those Swift BoatsÑvowed to use the same tactics to take down Obama, saying, "We will attack Obama viciously."1

This race is going to get very ugly.

The only way to counter these kinds of nasty attacks is to make sure voters are armed with the facts. That's where we come inÑour plan is to target 1.6 million voters in swing states and talk to them to make sure they know the truth about the candidates and the issues. That kind of personal contact will beat the negative ads every time.

But it's going to take a lot of workÑand moneyÑto build that organization. We've been in meetings all week crunching numbers to figure out how many states we can afford to work in this fall, and we need to make a decision soon. MoveOn doesn't have billionaire donorsÑit's just all of us, chipping in together. Can you chip in $25 to help make sure we have the resources necessary to get the truth out?

https://pol.moveon.org/donate/victoryin2008sb.html?id=12662-7901518-lx4DNh&t=3

We've already seen underhanded online campaigns making false and ugly claims about race, gender, religion and patriotism. But it could get even worseÑthere's literally nothing that's off-limits for these people.

Our best weapon is the truth. If this election is about things that really matter to peopleÑ-bringing our troops home from Iraq, getting out of this economic mess and getting health care to millions of folks who desperately need itÑMcCain and the Republicans don't stand a chance.

And that's precisely what we're going to do this year. We're going to talk to voters in neighborhoods across this country about the things that matter to them mostÑand we're going to make sure they vote for progressives. We'll ensure folks in those key states have the facts in their hands so they can separate the lies from the truth.

Our election plan is one of the biggest, most effective efforts that progressives have ever put together.

It builds on our best practices from the pastÑintegrating our neighbor-to-neighbor door-knocking program from 2004 with our "Call for Change" phone program that helped pave the way for big Democratic wins in 2006. And we've been working hard on it to make it even more effective this year.

The moment there's a Democratic nominee we have to be ready to start defending them against Swift Boat-style attacks. If each of us chips in a little, we can make sure they won't get away with lies and deception. Please chip in $25 today.

https://pol.moveon.org/donate/victoryin2008sb.html?id=12662-7901518-lx4DNh&t=4

Groups like the Swift Boat Veterans will tap billionaire donors to fund their politics of fear and destruction, but our movement is much strongerÑit relies on millions of folks like us working for hope and change. If we all work together we can trump their divisive attacks and build a more progressive future.

Thanks for all you do.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 16 May 08 - 01:13 PM

"Illinois Senator Barack Obama's delegate lead over rival Hillary Clinton in the race for the Democratic presidential nomination keeps growing.

Obama yesterday picked up seven of former Democratic candidate John Edwards' convention delegates, plus four more superdelegates.

According to the Associated Press, Obama now leads Clinton by nearly 200 delegates. It takes 2,025 delegates to clinch the nomination.

Obama is in South Dakota today for a town hall meeting on rural issues.

His campaign yesterday accused President George W. Bush of a "false political attack" for comments the president made in Israel warning leaders against trying to appease terrorists. Obama has said he would talk to U.S. adversaries, including Iran and Syria. The White House has denied targeting Obama.

Meanwhile, John Edwards was in the city yesterday, one day after officially endorsing Obama. Accepting an award from a public policy group, Edwards wouldn't say when he'll start campaigning.

"That's really sort of dependent on whether we can work the schedules out. I told Senator Obama when we were together yesterday I want to do everything I can to help," said Edwards, "I really think he should be the next president of the United States." "...


NY1 News

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 May 08 - 07:42 PM

Part of what Obama said in response to the shrub's idiotic crap about him being an "appeaser" ala those who tried to appease Hitler:

"I was offended by what is a continuation of a strategy from this White House, now mimicked by Senator McCain, that replaces strategy and analysis and smart policy with bombast, exaggerations and fear-mongering," the Illinois senator said.

Bush's speech Thursday to the Israeli parliament, he said, wasn't about policy.

"It was about politics, about trying to scare the American people," Obama said. "And that's what will not work in this election because the American people can look back at the track record of George Bush, supported by John McCain," and conclude that the nation was misled about the Iraq war's justification, cost, length and benefit to America.

The man can turn a phrase and think on his feet. What a contrast!!

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Ron Davies
Date: 16 May 08 - 10:27 PM

You're right, Kat. And I think that's what first drew a lot of us to him--just check what we were saying back about a year ago, at the start of this thread.

And to have somebody who on top of the skills you've noted, also takes a both post-racial and post-partisan approach, and takes the high road whenever possible, while being willing to fight when necessary----it's truly amazing.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 May 08 - 11:25 PM

It's what so many of us have been longing for, I think, Ron. Thanks for your comments. I remember hearing him a few years ago and telling someone i thought he was one to watch...that I hoped he'd run for pres. some day!

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: balladeer
Date: 17 May 08 - 03:22 PM

Memo to Bearded Bruce re "For Obama, a Lost Moment By David S. Broder". I believe Barack was quite happy to see Hillary win in W Va. As you say, it cost him practically nothing and could be seen as an act of chivalry. It would be in keeping with his character to support her in her moment of glory, thus allowing her to exit the national stage with dignity. This is the same courtesy John Edwards extended the New York senator when he praised her highly even as he was joining the Obama campaign.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: balladeer
Date: 17 May 08 - 03:43 PM

What a terrific thread! I've come into it very late, and I'm very glad I did. Time to expand beyond reading just the music threads. I could write a book about the junior senator from Illinois and all that his campaign represents in post-slavery, post-reconstruction, post-segregation, (soon to be post KKK?) America, and maybe I will one day, but for now I content myself with writing songs about the importance of voting. (See the What Else Can I Do? thread.) As a Canadian who is not allowed to put money directly into the Obama campaign coffers, may I contribute financially to Amos's efforts?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 17 May 08 - 04:55 PM

LOL!

It costs me nothing to post snippets on this thread, good sir; any financial contribution you make to my efforts here will simply free up some dough I can then send to Barack's campaign or to the Mudcat maintenance fund.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: GUEST,Cruiser
Date: 17 May 08 - 05:01 PM

I am 1 Republican who will be voting for Mr. Obama but I will not contribute 1 red cent to Mr. Amos nor Mr. Andy...

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 17 May 08 - 05:05 PM

Goo'ness gracious, Mistah Cruisah!! Ah am mighty glad yo' all decide tuh vote fo' sech a nahce manz...

but I wasn't asking for any money, thanks. So I don't much care if you send any or not.
'


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: balladeer
Date: 17 May 08 - 05:27 PM

Amos: I read this post from you (quoted below) and assumed MoveOn.org has a fund-raising drive happening to support door knocking, and that you are stumping for them here.

Am I wrong?

Anyway, slightly irritating jibes notwithstanding, if you do speak for MoveOn, and if you accept donations from Canada, I am willing to contribute.
***********

The only way to counter these kinds of nasty attacks is to make sure voters are armed with the facts. That's where we come inÑour plan is to target 1.6 million voters in swing states and talk to them to make sure they know the truth about the candidates and the issues. That kind of personal contact will beat the negative ads every time.

But it's going to take a lot of workÑand moneyÑto build that organization. We've been in meetings all week crunching numbers to figure out how many states we can afford to work in this fall, and we need to make a decision soon. MoveOn doesn't have billionaire donorsÑit's just all of us, chipping in together. Can you chip in $25 to help make sure we have the resources necessary to get the truth out?

https://pol.moveon.org/donate/victoryin2008sb.html?id=12662-7901518-lx4DNh&t=3

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 17 May 08 - 06:07 PM

Ah--I see.

I was not particularly stumping, but I did include that part of the Move On information letter in the course of posting the thing.

If you cannot contribute to Move On directly, I will be glad to forward anything you like to them. PM me for addy. I have learned that Western union works well.


Regards,


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 17 May 08 - 06:24 PM

HE battle for the Democratic presidential nomination could be won outright by Barack Obama this week, a senior adviser to the Illinois senator said this weekend.

As support for Hillary Clinton evaporates, former senator Tom Daschle told The Sunday Times: ÒHeÕs going to get closer and closer and he could cross the magic threshold as early as [this] week.Ó

Daschle, known as the Wizard of Oz for his influential, behind-the-curtain role in ObamaÕs campaign, was speaking in his home state of South Dakota, which will hold the last primary contest with Montana on June 3. He said he expected Clinton to continue in the race until the last votes were counted, even if Obama already had enough delegates to win the nomination by then.

If so, Daschle will have played a huge role in ObamaÕs victory over the New York senator, who was once considered a shoo-in for the nomination.(London Times)

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 17 May 08 - 06:26 PM

Hillary Clinton stepped her efforts to heal the rift in the Democratic Party last night with a warning to her supporters that it would be a "grave error" if they chose to vote for Republican John McCain over her rival Barack Obama come November. In a tacit acknowledgement of her rapidly dwindling presidential hopes and the divisive nature of what has been one of the dirtiest Democratic primary fights in recent years, Clinton told CNN's Wolf Blitzer that she would lend her full weight to Obama's likely presidential campaign. Clinton made her remarks after being asked by a viewer why she thought so many of her supporters say they would vote for McCain if Obama was the Democratic nominee. It would be a "terrible mistake," she warned, if they decided to do so.

"Anybody who has ever voted for me or voted for Barack has much more in common in terms of what we want to see happen in our country and in the world with the other than they do with John McCain," she said.

"I'm going to work my heart out for whoever our nominee is. Obviously, I'm still hoping to be that nominee, but I'm going to do everything I can to make sure that anyone who supported me ... understands what a grave error it would be not to vote for Senator Obama." (Ibid)

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 17 May 08 - 07:44 PM

Senator Barack Obama has chosen to spend Tuesday night not in Kentucky or Oregon, the two states that will be holding their primaries that day, or even at his home in Chicago. Instead, Mr. ObamaÕs staff announced on Saturday, he will be returning to Iowa, where he won the Democratic caucuses way back in January and has at least two good reasons to revisit now.

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Much more than nostalgia seems to have motivated that decision. If things continue to go as well for Mr. Obama this week as they have so far this month, with a romp in North Carolina, a strong showing in Indiana and daily growth in his support among party superdelegates, he could actually end up with enough pledged delegates to proclaim, without fear of contradiction, that he is now the Democratic nominee for president.

Mr. ObamaÕs ability to declare victory for the nomination will depend in large part on his performance in the Kentucky and Oregon votes. He has all but conceded Kentucky to Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, the clear favorite when the race started last year, spending little time there, but is favored in Oregon, where he is making a strong effort.

On Saturday, for example, Mr. Obama appeared at a town-hall-style meeting in the southwestern Oregon town of Roseburg, talking about health care and foreign policy and then taking questions about subjects that included OregonÕs assisted suicide law and domestic partnerships. Implicitly acknowledging what could be at stake in Oregon, he also urged supporters who have voted for him in advance, a common practice there, to make sure that they got their ballots in to tallying centers early enough to be sure they would be counted.

There would be a certain symmetry if Oregon proved to be the state to put Mr. Obama over the top and he can indeed celebrate that victory in Iowa.

It was his triumph in the caucuses in Iowa, of course, a state whose population is virtually all white, that first established him as a viable contender for the nomination. Oregon is another state whose population is also overwhelmingly white; Portland, the stateÕs biggest urban area, is a place where he is expected to do very well, though it is sometimes called, even by its residents, Òthe whitest major city in the United States.Ó

Mrs. Clinton, of New York, has argued recently that one of the reasons she, rather than Mr. Obama, should be the Democratic nominee, despite his lead in delegates and the popular vote, is that she has more appeal to and will perform better among white voters who will be crucial to Democratic hopes in November. For Mr. Obama to be in Iowa to celebrate a victory in Oregon would allow him, without having to say a single word, to undermine, if not refute, that argument.

Mr. ObamaÕs traveling press secretary, Jen Psaki, suggested Saturday that his campaign was also in a moment of transition.

ÒWe have our eye on upcoming primary competitions,Ó Ms. Psaki said after the meeting in Roseburg, mentioning not only Oregon but also Montana and South Dakota, which vote on June 3, concluding the primary season....

(NYT)

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 17 May 08 - 08:27 PM

"BALTIMORE (AP) -- Big Brown charged to the lead turning for home and then cruised down the stretch to win the Preakness on Saturday, still perfect and squarely pointed toward thoroughbred racing's first Triple Crown in 30 years.

"We should have enough horse to get the job done," said trainer Rick Dutrow Jr., who had predicted his bay colt would win the first two legs.

Just as he did two weeks ago in a Kentucky Derby marred by the breakdown of Eight Belles, the colt named for UPS delivered another stunning win, this time by 5 1/4 lengths. Macho Again was second and Icabad Crane was third.

The Belmont Stakes will be run June 7. It's been three decades since Affirmed swept that race along with the Derby and Preakness to give racing its 11th Triple Crown winner."

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 17 May 08 - 10:50 PM

The language of the internal party memo was stark and brutally honest. Sent out by Republican congressman Tom Davis last week after a stunning congressional by-election loss in the Deep South, it warned colleagues of a potential disaster ahead.

The result, in which the Democratic party won a Mississippi House of Representatives seat that had voted 62 per cent for President Bush in 2004, was a sign of a 'toxic' political environment for Republicans, Davis wrote. He went on to point out the loss was the Republicans' third defeat in a row in special elections - the equivalent of a by-election in Britain - this year alone. Davis's memo dubbed the defeats 'canaries in the coalmine' for the survival of the Republican party.

A Democratic win in such a solidly conservative district capped a week in which Senator Barack Obama finally turned his eyes to the coming November election and his opponent, John McCain. Now many Democrats believe the signs are good that the tide of American public opinion is firmly swinging their way and will deliver them the White House. Certainly, many of the key indicators are giving them strong grounds for optimism.

A recent Quinnipiac University Polling Institute survey showed that a staggering 82 per cent of Americans are unhappy with the direction that the country is heading. At the same time the faltering economy, and especially high petrol prices, are a major concern. 'Overwhelmingly, voters think the economy is in bad shape,' said Maurice Carroll, Quinnipiac's polling director. Obama is now leading McCain in recent national polls by an average of four points.

The results in Mississippi showed Republican voters were willing to vote for a Democratic candidate in areas where the party would normally assume it had no chance. The fight was especially significant as the Republican candidate, Greg Davis, ran a campaign aggressively linking his opponent, Travis Childers, to Obama and the controversy over his former pastor, the Rev Jeremiah Wright. If Obama was looking for reassurance that Wright's outspoken and radical views had not damaged his chances, then Childers's victory provided it.

It also raised the prospect that Obama - buoyed by a massive turnout among black voters - might prove competitive in the South against McCain. Some Democrat insiders think Obama might even win states such as Virginia and North Carolina.

UK Guardian

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Riginslinger
Date: 18 May 08 - 01:08 AM

It looks like we're headed for an overwhelming Democratic majority in the House and Senate, and a McCain presidency.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: beardedbruce
Date: 18 May 08 - 05:34 AM

Which may well be the best thing. We have seen what a president with party control of both House and Senate can do ( both now and back under Democrats) and it might be far better to have the power split and BOTH sides forced to work together.



just my opinion...

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Ron Davies
Date: 18 May 08 - 10:54 AM

OK--still waiting for any rebuttal for this, by anybody who badmouths Obama's chances. To pick a purely theoretical example--Rig. Based on logic and facts, please, as opposed to wishful thinking.

McCain has at least 3 serious problems, any of which is likely to cost him the presidency:

1) US is in a very sour mood. "Throw the bums out" always starts with the president's party. If you don't think so, why have the Republicans just lost 3 special elections--in Republican districts?

2) McCain is tied to Bush.    It starts with the Iraq war, but covers a lot more. The 2013 date is meaningless, since McCain assumes by this that there will be a US "victory" in Iraq. Pipe dream--and the US public knows it.

"McCain is Bush's 3rd term" :This will be Obama's theme in the fall--and it's a winning theme. There is widespread loathing of Bush--and by independents and some Republicans, as well as the overwhelming majority of Democrats.

3) McCain must reach beyond his base in order to win. But whenever he tries to do so, his base threatens to desert.

a) illegal immigration--he needs Hispanic votes, but if he pushes for a path to citizenship for illegals, he loses the Tancredo true believers. There is absolutely no support for the absurd allegation that Hispanics themselves are willing to wait til the border is "secured"--which will never happen. Look at the disastrous showing of the Republicans in the 2006 elections--and the plunge in their support among Hispanics, thanks to Tancredo and other stellar thinkers.

b) global warning--the WSJ has come out against his cap-and-trade idea

c) in order to address the health-care crisis, drastic action is needed. But McCain is restricted by his base from anything beyond "market-based solutions"--a Band-Aid on a gaping wound. And again, the US public knows it.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 18 May 08 - 12:36 PM

Don't mind Rig. He has a knack for saying things that are egregiously unrelaistc in the nicest way, so you kinda want to believe he is being rational, even when he is not.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Riginslinger
Date: 18 May 08 - 12:44 PM

Amos - When have I ever not been rational?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 18 May 08 - 01:11 PM

Rig:

Let me count the ways!! Although, usually, it turns out you were just being funny in your own special way.

I don't think there is any strong evidence for projecting McCain has a reasonable chance this year, for example. But you assert he looks like a winner. But you don't state this as a subjective opinion.

Sorry if I sounded harsh.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Riginslinger
Date: 18 May 08 - 06:32 PM

The new preacher at that wigged out church Obama has tied himself too is proving to be as bizarre as Wright.   He might get McCain elected all by himself.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 May 08 - 06:56 PM

It's a danged shame that a politician can't get elected in your country without publicly sucking up to some church to prove his piety, isn't it, Riginslinger?

I don't recall any Canadian politicians who have ever made a big point of talking about their churchgoing habits or their religious beliefs. Usually they don't even talk about it at all. People don't get elected (or not elected) on that basis in Canada. Nobody seems to care. You'd love it here. ;-)

We had a female Prime Minister here once too, but she wasn't actually elected. She took over the position from the previous prime minister who had retired from the leadership while their party was still in office. Her chances of being elected looked good, initially, but they rapidly went down the chute in the election which followed. That was Kim Campbell, a very smart and capable person.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 18 May 08 - 07:39 PM

Rig:

Do you have any concrete data you would like to share? Or are you just in the mood for broadcasting uncharitable opinions at others?


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 May 08 - 07:55 PM

I do! Concrete is sticky stuff before it sets and you have to take care not to step in it, but after it sets it makes a fine walkway. Anything else you need to know?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Bobert
Date: 18 May 08 - 08:19 PM

The taller guy usually wins...

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Riginslinger
Date: 18 May 08 - 11:44 PM

"It's a danged shame that a politician can't get elected in your country without publicly sucking up to some church to prove his piety, isn't it, Riginslinger?"


                      Yes, LH, it really is heartbreaking.




                      Amos - All I can say is, Sean Hannity has some kind of a spin-off show on Fox News now. I came in to eat lunch earlier, and he was on, and he had the new preacher on video doing some really strange things.
                      I will admit that Sean Hannity is somebody I don't very much like, but he can really stir up a lot of shit.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 19 May 08 - 10:16 AM

Taking a slice from Sean Hannity's stuff and passing it on without attribution as a fact is pretty risky, IMHO, RIg. He is not only unlikeable in the extreme, he is also a rabid distortionist.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 May 08 - 11:11 AM

Combine that with a vapid contortionist and you would really have a serious problem on your hands.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: beardedbruce
Date: 19 May 08 - 11:14 AM

So, Amos.

What bills has Obama worked on that were joint with Republicans?


My understanding is that Obama has the most liberal rating of any Senator: Has he worked WITH his opponents on anything? Serious question.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 19 May 08 - 12:35 PM

I don't know, Bruce, which Republicans he has worked with or when.

HIs record of accomplishments, however, is impressive:

"Most of his legislative effort has been in the area of Energy Efficiency and Climate Change (25 bills), health care (21 bills) and public health (20 bills), consumer protection/labor (14 bills), the needs of Veterans and the Armed Forces (13 bills), Congressional Ethics and Accountability (12 bills), Foreign Policy (10 bills) Voting and Elections (9 bills), Education (7 bills), Hurricane Katrina Relief (6), the Environment (5 bills), Homeland Security (4 bills), and discrimination (4 bills).

Of the 15 bills Senator Obama sponsored or co-sponsored in 2005-7 that became law:


Two addressed foreign policy:
Promote relief, security and democracy in the Congo (2125)
Develop democratic institutions in areas under Palestinian control (2370).

Three addressed public health:
Improve mine safety (2803)
Increased breast cancer funding (597)
Reduce preterm delivery and complications, reduce infant mortality (707).

Two addressed openness and accountability in government:
Strengthening the Freedom of Information Act (2488)
Full disclosure of all entities receiving federal funds (2590)

Two addressed national security
Extend Terrorist Risk Insurance (467)
Amend the Patriot Act (2167)

One addressed the needs of the Armed Forces
Wave passport fees to visit graves, attend memorials/funerals of veterans abroad (1184).

Of the 570 bills Senator Obama introduced into the Senate during the 109th and 110th Congress (Senate Bill numbers are in parentheses), they can be summarized as follows:

25 addressed Energy Efficiency and Climate Change
Suspend royalty relief for oil and gas (115)
Reduce dependence on oil; use of alternative energy sources (133)
Increase fuel economy standards for cars (767, 768)
Auto industry incentives for fuel efficient vehicles (1151)
Reduce green house gas emissions (1324)
Establish at NSF a climate change education program (1389)
Increase renewable content of gasoline (2202)
Energy emergency relief for small businesses and farms (269)
Strategic gasoline and fuel reserves (1794)
Alternative diesel standards (3554)
Coal to liquid fuel promotion (3623)
Renewable diesel standards (1920)
Reducing global warming pollution from vehicles (2555)
Fuel security and consumer choice (1994, 2025)
Alternative energy refueling system (2614)
Climate change education (1389)
Low income energy assistance (2405)
Oil savings targets (339)
Fuel economy reform (3694)
Plug-in electric drive vehicles (1617)
Nuclear release notice (2348)
Passenger rail investment (294)
Energy relief for low income families (2405)

21 addressed Health Care
Drug re-importation (334)
Health information technology (1262, 1418)
Discount drug prices (2347)
Health care associated infections (2278)
Hospital quality report cards (692, 1824)
Medical error disclosure and compensation (1784)
Emergency medical care and response (1873)
Stem cell research (5)
Medical Malpractice insurance (1525)
Health centers renewal (901, 3771)
Children's health insurance (401)
Home health care (2061)
Medicare independent living (2103)
Microbicides for HIV/AIDS (823)
Ovarian cancer biomarker research (2569)
Gynological cancers (1172)
Access to personalized medicine through use of human genome (976)
Paralysis research and care (1183)

20 addressed Public Health:
Violence against women (1197)
Biodefense and pandemic preparedness and response (1821, 1880)
Viral influenza control (969)
End homelessness (1518)
Reduce STDs/unintended pregnancy (1790)
Smoking prevention and tobacco control (625)
Minority health improvement and disparity elimination (4024)
Nutrition and physical education in schools (2066)
Health impact assessments (1067, 2506)
Healthy communities (1068)
Combat methamphetamines (2071)
Paid sick leave (910)
Prohibit mercury sales (833, 1818)
Prohibit sale of lead products (1306, 2132)
Lead exposure in children (1811, 2132)

14 address Consumer Protection/Labor
Stop unfair labor practices (842)
Fair minimum wage (2, 1062, 2725, 3829)
Internet freedom (2917)
Credit card safety (2411)
Media ownership (2332)
Protecting taxpayer privacy (2484)
Working family child assistance (218)
Habeus Corpus Restoration (185)
Bankruptcy protection for employees and retirees (2092)
FAA fair labor management dispute resolution (2201)
Working families flexibility (2419).

13 addressed the Needs of Veterans and the Armed Forces:
Improve Benefits (117)
Suicide prevention (479)
Needs of homeless veterans (1180)
Homes for veterans (1084)
GI Bill enhancement (43)
Military job protection
Dignity in care for wounded vets (713)
Housing assistance for low income veterans (1084)
Military children in public schools (2151)
Military eye injury research and care (1999)
Research physical/mental health needs from Iraq War (1271)
Proper administration of discharge for personality disorder (1817, 1885)
Security of personal data of veterans (3592)

12 addressed Congressional Ethics and Accountability
Lobbying and ethics reform (230)
Stop fraud (2280)
Legislative transparency and accountability (525)
Open government (2180, 2488)
Restoring fiscal discipline (10)
Transparency and integrity in earmarks (2261)
Accountability of conference committee deliberations and reports (2179)
Federal funding accountability and transparency (2590)
Accountability and oversight for private security functions under Federal
contract (674)
Accountability for contractors and personnel under federal contracts
(2147) Resctrictions awarding government contracts (2519)

10 addressed Foreign Policy:
Iraq war de-escalation (313)
US policy for Iraq (433),
Divestiture from Iran (1430)
Sudan divestment authorization (831)
Millennium Development Goals (2433)
Multilateral debt relief (1320)
Development bank reform (1129)
Nuclear nonproliferation (3131,977,2224).

9 address Voting/Elections
Prohibit deceptive practices in Federal elections (453)
Voter access to polls and services in Federal elections (737)
Voter intimidation and deceptive practices (1975)
Senate campaign disclosure parity (185)
Require reporting for bundled campaign contributions (2030)
Election jamming prevention (4102)
Campaign disclosure parity (223)
Presidential funding (2412)
Integrity of electronic voting systems (1487)

11 addressed Education
Increase access of low income African Americans to higher education (1513)
Establish teaching residency programs (1574)
Increase early intervention services (2111)
Middle school curriculum improvements (2227)
Public database of scholarships, fellowships and financial aid (2428)
Summer learning programs (116)
TANF financial education promotion (924)
Higher education (1642)
Build capacity at community colleges (379)
Campus law enforcement in emergencies (1228)
Support for teachers (2060).

6 addressed Hurrican Katrina
Hurricane Katrina recovery (2319)
Emergency relief (1637)
Bankruptcy relief and community protection (1647)
Working family tax relief (2257)
Fair wages for recovery workers (1749)
Gulf coast infrastructure redevelopment (1836)

5 addressed the Environment
Drinking water security (218, 1426)
Water resources development (728)
Waste water treatment (1995)
Combat illegal logging (1930)
Spent nuclear fuel tracking and Acountability (1194)
Asian Carp Prevention and Control Act (Introduced in Senate)[S.726.IS ]

4 addressed Discrimination
Claims for civil class action based on discrimination (1989)
Domestic partnership benefits (2521)
Unresolved civil rights crimes (535)
Equality or two parent families (2286)

4 addressed Homeland Security
Judicial review of FISA orders (2369)
National emergency family locator (1630)
Amend US Patriot Act (2167)
Chemical security and safety (2486)"

See also this analysis of Obama's actual productivity.

Quite the guy.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Bobert
Date: 19 May 08 - 12:55 PM

Well, I read an interesting piece in the Washigton Post yesterday but can't lay my hands on it now but it was an op-ed... The crux of it was the possibly of Obama asking Chuck Yager to be his VP??? Hmmmmmm??? Apparently the two have developed a nice relationship...

He wouldn't be on my list but I don't think it would be a deal buster for me either...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: beardedbruce
Date: 19 May 08 - 01:02 PM

So, he can only unite the people who agree with him?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: beardedbruce
Date: 19 May 08 - 01:12 PM

Ferraro suggests she may not vote for Obama
Posted: 01:00 PM ET

From CNN Ticker Producer Alexander Mooney


Ferraro is a supporter of Clinton's presidential campaign.
(CNN) — Geraldine Ferraro, the outspoken former Democratic vice presidential candidate and a supporter of Hillary Clinton's White House bid, told the New York Times she may not vote for Barack Obama should he be the party's nominee.

Ferraro, a former member of Clinton's finance committee who resigned that post earlier this year after making comments many viewed as racially offensive, also said she thinks the Illinois senator has been "terribly sexist" over the course of the presidential campaign.

The comments appear to underscore the potential difficulty Obama may have courting some women voters in the fall — many of whom have said they feel a solidarity with the New York senator over the barriers Clinton faces in her bid to become the first female president.

Ferraro has not shied away from discussing the impact of race and gender throughout the Democratic presidential campaign. In March, the former congresswoman told a California newspaper the chief reason Obama's candidacy was successful was because he was black.

"If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position," she told The Daily Breeze. "And if he was a woman, he would not be in this position. He happens to be very lucky to be who he is. And the country is caught up in the concept."

Ferraro also said Clinton had been the victim of a "sexist media."

Obama later called those comments "ridiculous," and Clinton said she disagreed with them.

Ferraro maintained her comments were not racist, but ultimately resigned from the Clinton campaign after they caused an uproar.

"The Obama campaign is attacking me to hurt you. I won't let that happen," she wrote in her resignation letter to Clinton, adding, "I am who I am and I will continue to speak up."

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Riginslinger
Date: 19 May 08 - 01:49 PM

"Taking a slice from Sean Hannity's stuff and passing it on without attribution as a fact is pretty risky,"


             Well, it's a fact that the guy is there, and all Hannity has to do is to turn what he has into a YouTube tid-bit, and it'll be Reverend Wright all over again.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 19 May 08 - 02:22 PM

Whatever Mr. Obama claims, Mrs. Clinton made it clear she is not buying it.
"I'm going to make my case and I'm going to make it until I'm the nominee and we're not going to have one today and we're not going to have one tomorrow and we're not going to have one the next day," she said. "And if Kentucky turns out tomorrow, I will be closer to that nomination."
She also dismissed Democratic nominating rules requiring proportional allocation of delegates from primaries and caucuses, rather than the winner-take-all system used by the Republicans.
"If we had same rules as the Republicans, I would be the nominee right now," she said.

---

Easily remedied. She should run for the Republican nomination.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Bobert
Date: 19 May 08 - 02:30 PM

Correction: Chuck "Hagel"...

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 19 May 08 - 04:29 PM

As noteworthy as it is that super-delegate Larry Gates, who heads the Kansas Democratic Party, endorsed Barack Obama, another pledge today is much more significant.

   Democratic Sen. Robert Byrd, the 90-year-old dean of the Senate, today backed Obama. After his rout last week at the hands of Hillary Clinton in the West Virginia primary, it could be just the tonic Obama needs in a crucial state if he, as appears likely, wins the nomination.

   For decades, the Mountain State was "almost heaven" for Democrats. Starting in 1928, it had an unbroken record of not voting for Republicans in open presidential contests - which 2008 is - until 2000, when George Bush defeated Al Gore.

   A lot of that had to do with the Clinton administration's opposition to mountaintop coal mining and fears over gun control. But President Bush won the state again four years later.

    Byrd has been in the Senate half a century. If anyone can help Obama persuade some wary West Virginia Democrats who sided with Clinton, it is very likely him.