BS: Popular Views on Obama

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Riginslinger
Date: 05 Mar 08 - 10:11 AM

Maybe it would work. The thing I'm finding so laughable are the news pundits who keep saying, "The way these candidates are going after each other, they'll never to civil to one another again."
                I keep asking myself, "What am I missing?"

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 05 Mar 08 - 10:48 AM

"Illinois Sen. Barack Obama, who was fresh off 11 straight wins against Sen. Hillary Clinton, may have been overconfident going into yesterday's battleground state primaries, but he still has the "inside track" to the nomination, says one political strategist.

"His people had decided he was the nominee designate and they just had to get past last night, and well they didn't get past it," said Larry J. Sabato, director of the Center for Politics at the University of Virginia.

Clinton scored victories in Ohio, Texas and Rhode Island. Obama came away with Vermont. Ohio and Texas were must wins for Clinton's campaign.

Sabato said Obama failed to respond effectively to Clinton's attacks, and Clinton capitalized on her core base in Ohio.

"Those are her people," he said. "That's why she's led consistently in Ohio. There are so many blue collar, white Democrats in Ohio."

Clinton won 54 percent of the vote in Ohio, to Obama's 44 percent. She won 51 percent of the vote in Texas, to Obama's 47 percent. She bested Obama 58 percent to 40 percent in Rhode Island.

Obama won Vermont with 60 percent of the vote.

Sabato said he still believes Obama has the "inside track" in the race for the nomination. He is ahead in the pledged delegate count and is the favorite in Saturday's contest in Wyoming as well as the Mississippi primary on Tuesday.

"Obama will sweep both," he said. "He's got to come back. Whenever you are knocked down you have to come back."

Although Clinton hinted today at the possibility of sharing a ticket with Obama in the future, for now she's focused on the presidency.

"That may be where this is headed, but of course we have to decide who is on the top of ticket," she said. "I think the people of Ohio very clearly said that it should be me."

Sabato said the big loser in yesterday's contests is the Democratic party. The next six weeks will be costly and divisive for the party as Clinton and Obama battle it out for the nomination."

---

Actually I don't think there's that much advantage in the Republicans early closure of their primaries. Particularly, whoever wins the Democratic nomination, probably Obama, is not going to be at any particular disadvantage, because the voting public do not have long memories and there will be a long campaign leading up to November. Bear in mind he came sweeping up to lead the Dem race in a very short period of time.

THis assumes the campaign on the Dem side against McCain is run well.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: DannyC
Date: 05 Mar 08 - 10:49 AM

After all the hoopla, it's clear that the Obama campaign's message from this morning is 'spot on'. Obama is clearly on target to win the Democratic nomination....   after all, he has won twelve (12) of the past fifteen (15) state primaries.

************************************************

We may not know the final outcome of today's voting until morning, but the results so far make one thing clear.

When the dust settles from today's contests, we will maintain our substantial lead in delegates. And thanks to millions of people standing for change, we will keep adding delegates and capture the Democratic nomination.

We knew from the day we began this journey that the road would be long. And we knew what we were up against.

We knew that the closer we got to the change we seek, the more we'd see of the politics we're trying to end -- the attacks and distortions that try to distract us from the issues that matter to people's lives, the stunts and the tactics that ask us to fear instead of hope.

But this time -- this year -- it will not work. The challenges are too great. The stakes are too high.

Americans need real change.

In the coming weeks, we will begin a great debate about the future of this country with a man who has served it bravely and loves it dearly. And we will offer two very different visions of the America we see in the twenty-first century.

John McCain has already dismissed our call for change as eloquent but empty.

But he should know that it's a call that did not begin with my words. It's the resounding call from every corner of this country, from first-time voters and lifelong cynics, from Democrats and Republicans alike.

And together you and I are going to grow this movement to deliver that change in November.

Thank you,

Barack

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 05 Mar 08 - 11:07 AM

It's possible for the loser of the primary to win more delegates with a strong showing in the caucuses. Texas' method of awarding delegates in the primary -- with more delegates coming from large population centers like Houston, Dallas and Austin -- further complicates the matter.

...Texans were reportedly lining up in bigger-than-expected numbers for the caucuses -- in some places lining up in parking lots and overflowing buildings where caucuses were held.

A CNN I-reporter in Houston reported hundreds of people at his polling place -- saying he had to wait for over an hour just to sign in.

In Austin, about 800 people showed up -- far outstripping expectations and causing organizers to stand on top of tables and yell to organize caucus-goers, one voter said.

In early returns from those caucuses, Obama had the edge.

---

At about 38% reporting, that edge on the Texas caucus front was about 52 to 48 per cent.

If he wins the caucuses, it dilutes the impact of the primaries by about 1/3 as far as Texas delegates go,.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 05 Mar 08 - 11:39 AM

"When you've lost 12 in a row, any good news qualifies as a comeback," Axelrod said of Clinton's claim of resurgence. "The reality is, though, they promised to cut our delegate lead, and I don't think that's going to happen tonight. They set a test for themselves, which was to wipe out our lead in delegates in the Ohio and Texas primaries. I don't know if they're going to reduce our lead at all, and we may actually add to it by the end of the night."

He was just getting warmed up. "So, I think they have to spin this as best they can, but the reality is still the reality," Axelrod said. "We're in the lead. We've won 28 contests, they've won 13. We've won more popular votes. We've got somewhere in the neighborhood of a 160-delegate lead, and time is running out. And at some point, the party is going to coalesce around the nominee, and the nominee is going to be Barack Obama."

(WaPo)

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 Mar 08 - 11:52 AM

The "neighborhood" appears to have shrunk some........Obama lead is about 85-90 at the current time. LOL......Give it up Amos, this things going to the backrooms and we both know it!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 05 Mar 08 - 02:22 PM

Mebbe 'tis, Spaw, maybe 'tis.

I'd like to see him pull off a Statue of Liberty with a Hail Mary at the end and cross the finish line, just for elevated entertainment.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Mar 08 - 03:44 PM

What seems to have swung it for Clinton in Texas is that while Obama came in first among the men, Clinton came in first among the women - and there were a great deal more women than men voting in the Democratic primary - 53% women voters and only 43% men,(whereas in the Republican vote it was pretty even - 49% women, 51% men).

And the same seems to have been the case in Ohio, where there were 59% women and only 41% men Democratic voters. (Whereas among Republicans it was 54% men,and only 46% women.) And once again Obama got a majority of the men voters in the Democratic primary.

It rather looks in both cases as if a lot of women who might have been expected to vote Republican came out to vote for Clinton. Interesting.

(Figures taken from this site, CNN Election Center.)

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Riginslinger
Date: 05 Mar 08 - 03:50 PM

She ought to do well in Wyoming then. Isn't Wyoming the state were women were able to vote first?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 05 Mar 08 - 04:06 PM

HE's still leading in the caucuses in Texas, BTW -- they are real slow counters, I guess...


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: beardedbruce
Date: 05 Mar 08 - 04:21 PM

Washington Post:

Obama's First 100 Days

By Michael Gerson
Wednesday, March 5, 2008; Page A21

In the seesaw Democratic primary race, Republicans generally are rooting for confusion, which means rooting for Hillary Clinton -- who now has some political momentum after last night's victories in Ohio and Texas but little realistic chance of taking a lead in delegates.

It is the Republican dream: a tenacious, buoyant, well-funded challenger to Barack Obama who is also politically doomed -- and incapable of admitting she is doomed.

So now Clinton herself is the most effective agent of the vast right-wing conspiracy -- proving just how devious and subtle that conspiracy really is.

And this is not Agent Clinton's only contribution. By raising questions about Obama's foreign policy judgment, she has identified a potent issue -- an issue she cannot fully exploit because of the liberalism of her own party.

But John McCain could. As a thought experiment, consider the foreign policy achievements of Obama's first 100 days in office.

Redeeming his inaugural pledge to "pay any price, bear any burden, fly any distance to meet with our enemies," Obama's first major international meeting is with President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran. National security adviser Samantha Power does her best to talk tough on human rights in preparation for the meeting. But, as Henry Kissinger once said, "When talks become their own objective, they are at the mercy of the party most prepared to break them off." Having made Iranian talks "without precondition" his major foreign policy goal, Obama is left with little leverage to extract concessions, and little choice but to move forward.

The New York Post runs a front-page picture of the Obama-Ahmadinejad handshake under the headline "Surrender Summit!" The story notes another of Obama's historic firsts: the first American president to meet with a Holocaust denier. The Israeli prime minister publicly asks, "Why is the American president meeting with a leader who calls us 'filthy bacteria' and threatens to wipe us 'off the map?'" Tens of thousands protest in Tel Aviv, carrying signs reading "Chamberlain Lives!"

America's moderate Arab allies in the region also feel betrayed, assuming that America is cutting a bilateral deal with Iran that accepts its nuclear ambitions, while leaving the Sunni powers out in the cold. The Egyptian press notes that President Obama's motorcade in Tehran passed near a street named in honor of Khaled al-Islambouli, the assassin of President Anwar Sadat.

Shell-shocked by the criticism, the Obama administration moves its forthcoming summit with Ra¿l Castro to Turks and Caicos, in a vain attempt to limit media scrutiny. The four-minute, Friday evening meeting -- photographers are forbidden -- still results in hundreds of thousands of Cubans protesting in Miami. Spouses of the imprisoned and tortured carry pictures of their loved ones. Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez praises Obama's visit as a "public apology for generations of American imperialism and militarism."

At the same time, the Obama administration is arm-twisting Mexico and Canada into a renegotiation of the North American Free Trade Agreement. The Mexican president wonders aloud to the press: "Why is the new president courting his enemies in the hemisphere while insulting his closest friends?"

Obama's Oval Office speech to the nation on Iraq is initially more successful. As promised, he orders a phased, unconditional withdrawal of combat forces, beginning "not in six months or one year -- now." American troops will no longer be embedded in Iraqi combat units or used to combat Iranian influence (all pledges made during his campaign).

Many Americans cheer. But the next day, The Post reports stunned disbelief among the troops. A high-ranking officer observes, "The surest way to break the morale of the military is to undo its achievements and humiliate it on the verge of success." Egypt, Saudi Arabia and other Sunni allies react with panic at another sign of American unsteadiness and retreat from the region. Armed groups of Sunnis and Shiites within Iraq begin preparing for a resumption of sectarian conflict. An intercepted al-Qaeda communication talks of "so much defeat, exhaustion and death -- and then, praise be, this unexpected victory!"

Obama's 100-day agenda would be designed, in part, to improve America's global image. But there is something worse than being unpopular in the world -- and that is being a pleading, panting joke. By simultaneously embracing appeasement, protectionism and retreat, President Obama would manage to make Jimmy Carter look like Teddy Roosevelt.

Which is why President Obama would probably not take these actions -- at least in the form he has pledged. Sitting behind the Resolute desk is a sobering experience that makes foolish campaign promises seem suddenly less binding.

But it is a bad sign for a candidate when the best we can hope is for him to violate his commitments. And that's a good sign for John McCain.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 05 Mar 08 - 04:28 PM

What a lot of twisted angry codswallop, Bruce.

How can you be beguiled so by hatred?


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: beardedbruce
Date: 05 Mar 08 - 04:33 PM

Amos,

YOU seem to have no problem using NYT articles to express your hate of Bush.

Are you claiming that the WPost is less "public opinion" than the NYTimes?

Can you give one example in the article that is NOT supported by Obama's words?

How can you be beguiled so by hatred, that you cannot even think of the negative effects of a policy without declaring it to be hatred??

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 05 Mar 08 - 04:43 PM

A rational policy -- being willing to communicate -- has been twisted into an exagerrated, obsessive version. It's a bunch of fantasy. It does not start witht he actual context it pretends to, it projects actions unlikely to be taken, consequences unlikely to be brought on, and reactions unlikely in the actors. It's just codswallop, a sort of hate-based science fiction.
And it smacks of derision and ridicule, which is something we've had enough of from the hooting simians of the true-believers in Rove tribe.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Mar 08 - 05:31 PM

If Ahmadinejad is a welcome guest in Iraq, as he is today, it doesn't make any sense at all for the US not to talk with him.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Riginslinger
Date: 05 Mar 08 - 09:27 PM

You have a really good point there, McGrath. When he tried to speak at Colombia University they hooted him off the stage. That didn't make a lot of sense to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 05 Mar 08 - 09:49 PM

It's easy to distort and twist and nullify people, no matter how smart they are or how good their intentions. It is not as easy to clearly understand their point of view and weigh it without prejudice against other points of view.

It's a sad thing that the process of fielding better button-pushes and scary pictures has taken the place of dialogue and the exchange of ideas.


I guess ya gotta call your side according to your lights, though.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: beardedbruce
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 09:27 AM

Riginslinger

They hooted him off the stage AFTER he made the statement that "There are no homosexuals in Iran."

Since there are people being executed in Iran for the crime of being homosexual, this statement deserved at least a hooting.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 10:08 AM

Well, what the hell...Bush and Cheney would probably get hooted off the stage in Iran too, wouldn't they? ;-) And with good reason.

Although, perhaps the Iranians would be more polite than that.

They should try it and see what happens.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Riginslinger
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 10:12 AM

bb - I think the hooting started long before he got to that point, and why would they bait him with a question like that anyway. His position on homosexuality doesn't seem all that different from Bush-Cheney-Ashcroft-ect. to me.
                      The president of the university was one of the cheerleaders for the hooters. Is that responsible leadership for a prestigious institution like Colombia?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 10:15 AM

The really annoying thing is that "politics as usual" is being allowed to fruck up an important national opportunity to put someone forward who could make a major difference. And it is not McCaIN OR hrc, both of whom are deeply vested in the SSDD patterns of how things are. It's a damn shame, is what.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 11:52 AM

The Huffington Post


"Rep. Lacy Clay (D-MO), Sen. Barack Obama's Missouri co-chairman and pledged Obama superdelegate, said Obama will gain the support of 50 undecided Democratic superdelegates later this week, according to the Columbia Missourian.

Said Clay: "She (Sen. Clinton) will not make up those numbers. This race is over."

Former NBC News anchor Tom Brokaw first reported yesterday that Obama had about 50 secretly committed superdelegates."

Reassuring, if so. I was really irritated that Hillary's "scary phone call at 3AM" ad had any effect at all. I can betcha the occasions when she has been up at 3 A.M. dressed in a suit are on the order of < 2 since she turned 30, so long ago.....(See? Cattiness can be a two-way street).


a

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: mg
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 12:24 PM

Actually I thought the ad was unattractively done, but the questions have to be raised. Of course she has no foreign experience to speak of either so I think the scared people will choose McCain. She actually has some good points..she is just not the one to execute them..oh she is creepy...

I wish they would quit saying the race is over. It just invigorates them. There are so many dirty tricks out there yet...mg

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 12:46 PM

"The race is over" is supposed to appeal to people who like the idea of jumping on a bandwagon. I'd have thought it's just as likely to alienate people who don't like being taken for granted.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: beardedbruce
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 01:37 PM

another unwanted popular view from the Washington Post.

Where's the Exit Strategy?
By Harold Meyerson
Thursday, March 6, 2008; Page A21

In "The Exterminating Angel," a 1962 film by Luis Buñuel, the great Spanish anarcho-surrealist director, the guests at a dinner party find that, mysteriously, they cannot leave. Though there are no external constraints to their exiting, none can cross the threshold of the music room to which they've adjourned. For days and days they stay, some growing to hate one another, some lapsing into despair and most eventually determining to sacrifice their host in the hope that killing him will set them free. (They manage to get out before the host has been dispatched.)

Democratic voters awoke yesterday to find themselves living out a primary season alarmingly like Buñuel's mordant fantasy. Nobody wished for a process that would roll on through summer or envisioned a contest in which the party's constituencies were arrayed against each other, in nearly equal force and with only minor variations, in state after state after state. Nobody anticipated that two candidates with no great policy differences would battle it out to no readily apparent resolution. Yet that's exactly what has happened. The Democrats are stuck.

Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton both have every reason to keep on campaigning, but the remaining contests will probably settle nothing. She almost certainly can't erase his lead among pledged delegates, and he hasn't demonstrated yet that he can win enough white working-class voters in key states to convince an overwhelming majority of superdelegates that he should be their pick. Clinton and Obama have divided up the Democrats' political world along distinct constituency lines, and only in a handful of states has one of them won over the other's demographic base -- chiefly Wisconsin, where Obama managed to win less-affluent white voters.

Indeed, this year's contest is proceeding much like a political-demographic census, in which the class, race and age breakdown of each state's electorate gives you a pretty fair idea of who's going to win. (The party's gender breakdown doesn't vary much by state.) Handicapping which candidate would run better against John McCain is no easy task, either. Obama can clearly attract more upscale independents than Clinton can, and her claim on less-affluent whites who shifted to the Democratic column in the 2006 midterms looks stronger than his. He'd probably do better in the Mountain West; she might do better in the Rustbelt Midwest.

Eventually, of course, the Democrats will have a nominee -- but how to determine whom without wrecking the party's prospects in November will require sound judgment and firm leadership from Clinton, Obama, party Chairman Howard Dean and other party leaders. First, the party needs to schedule primaries in Florida and Michigan -- preferably in June, soon after Puerto Rico, so that it doesn't add a crisis of legitimacy to its accumulating difficulties. Second, party leaders must make clear to the candidates that some attacks and innuendos should be out of bounds -- such as Clinton's hemming and hawing on "60 Minutes" over whether Obama really is Christian. That caution should be conveyed privately, but if such ploys continue, then Dean, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and the as-yet-unheard-from Al Gore should condemn them publicly.

Also, somebody is going to have to focus on McCain, who will merrily be depicting the Democrats, particularly Obama (Clinton is a known quantity), in the worst possible light. If the Democrats are to carry Ohio, Pennsylvania and Michigan in the general election, they need to put a spotlight on McCain's continuing infatuation with trade policies that have taken the Midwest's good jobs offshore. Obama and Clinton will attack McCain on trade while stumping in Pennsylvania, but their chief focus is more likely to be on attacking each other.

McCain's vulnerabilities as a candidate are legion. He accepted his party's de facto nomination Tuesday night without mentioning any ideas on how to get us out of the coming recession. His perfervid support for the Iraq war has blinded him to the bigger strategic picture, which is that the predictable pro-Iranian tilt of Iraq's post-Saddam Hussein leaders has helped Iran in its drive to become a regional superpower. Now, McCain speaks of war against Iran to undo the consequences of the war in Iraq that he has championed. But who will be broadcasting a critical look at McCain's record while Clinton and Obama duke it out? The Democrats' biggest donors -- unions from both sides of the candidate divide and business executives who funded the independent expenditure campaigns of 2004 -- will have to assume this task in the absence of a presumptive nominee.

Because just now the Democrats can't find their way out of a primary contest that almost surreally refuses to end.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: beardedbruce
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 01:43 PM

And another- Washington Post, again...

Why Clinton Isn't Dead
By Robert D. Novak
Thursday, March 6, 2008; Page A21

The scope of Hillary Clinton's latest resurrection can be appreciated only in light of the elaborate preparations that had been made for her expeditious burial. That she is very much alive can be attributed to her true grit but also to the revelation that Barack Obama is not a miraculously perfect candidate after all.

SNIP>>>>>>

LINK TO ENTIRE WASHINGTON POST ARTICLE IN FOLLOWING POST BY McGRATH OF HARLOW

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 01:45 PM

Here is a link to that in the Washington Post

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: beardedbruce
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 02:24 PM

Clone:


Link is to 01:37 posting- I gave full text to both, as links will go bad in a day or so... Not supposed to remember what they said longer than that, I guess.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 02:42 PM

Well, the thing is that punditry jumps hard on small stories. The statistical change in HRC's standing is relatively tine, relative to BHO's, but for want of anything better to do, Is uppose, it has to be analyzed to afaretheewell and everyone has to klook very smart about it, until the next tick in the graph comes along. I don't think these stories are fundamental enough to merit the bloviation. but it's the business they're in. They have no better "fix" on the ground truth to come than they did last Sunday.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: beardedbruce
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 03:06 PM

"Well, the thing is that punditry jumps hard on small stories."

Sort of like what the NYT does about anything it can ding the Bush Administration on... Oh, you mean to say that punditry in support of what YOU want to push is a different thing?


If the discussion of such points is "unworthy", perhaps we need to decide who gets to decide. If these were about McCain, would you have any complaint?

If Obama, or Clinton is supposed to be uncriticizable because YOU want them to win, pardon me for living.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 03:15 PM

OH, Bruce, dinna fash thysel' -- I wasn't commenting on you!! I don't consider yoru living a pardonable offense, but rather, an applaudable virtue on your part, for which many thanks.

You are fully sensitive to the fickleness of the mesia, I expect.

I just think discussion should be tempered with perspective, which I have often seen you do.


As for BHO himself, I rather like him, and find him appealing and seemingly trustworthy. I haven't been aware of him long enough to be able to substantiate that instinct. But it is certainly one MS Clinton does not evoke, in me anyway. POwer to the Shields, Scotty!!


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: beardedbruce
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 03:21 PM

"As for BHO himself, I rather like him, and find him appealing and seemingly trustworthy. I haven't been aware of him long enough to be able to substantiate that instinct. But it is certainly one MS Clinton does not evoke, in me anyway."

Agreed. I do NOT like ( or agree with) his proposed policies, but I do think he would be a reasonable President.

It is the seeming double standard ( anything is ok to ding Bush ( or now McCain), nothing is allowed to criticize Obama) that I object to, NOT your support of him.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 04:02 PM

Oh, of course; I know I can count on you to reject the double standard, as you always have.

But let's not over-simplify. The point I was making was that (regardless of who the story was about) a small change was made into a huge story, painted up as a sea-change, when it was just a swell.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 11:06 AM

STROUDSBURG, Pa. (AP) — For Edwin David, who served with the famed World War II unit of black fighters known as the Tuskegee Airmen, Sen. Barack Obama is an easy choice.

"Just let me live till voting time in November," said David, 83, living in retirement in the Pocono Mountains. "In my lifetime, we just might get to see the first African-American president of the United States!"

Fresh from victories in the big states of Ohio and Texas, and with polls having shown her holding the lead here, even if it has dwindled, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton starts her campaign in Pennsylvania as the favorite to win the April 22 primary.

But in random interviews last week with dozens of voters in swing districts across the state, much of the Democratic voter enthusiasm seemed to tilt toward Obama, not only because he is a fresh face, but because they believe he has the best shot at beating Republican nominee-in-waiting John McCain, whom they call old and out-of-touch.

But unlike David, many said it wasn't an easy decision.

Kate Clark, 53, a cafe owner in Nazareth, a small town near Allentown, said she struggled with her choice. Tempted to vote for Clinton because of her gender, she said Obama's energy and vision ultimately won out.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 11:10 AM

NSIGNT: Why I am a woman for Obama
15:00 Fri 07 Mar 2008 - Vanya Rainova

"I'm tired of pseudo-feminist interpretations suggesting that contempt for Senator Hillary Clinton is rooted in misogyny. I'm disheartened by sisters guilt-tripping sisters for not supporting the first woman to run for president of the United States. So, even though I'm not eligible to vote, I'm a woman supporting Senator Barack Obama for the Democratic nomination for president of the United States.

Yes, I'd very much like to see a woman be the president of the United States, but not any woman, not if this woman is yet another tough guy on the establishment block. I thought the idea of having women in a position of power was that they might introduce some empathy, dialogue and unity to our testosterone-driven, conflict-wrought world, and I don't see divisive, war-supporting Hillary going that way. She says the White House needs a fighter. I say it needs a uniter...."


Full article is an interesting take. It can be found here.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 11:12 AM

Emerging Obama Coalition

...Barack Obama stands the best chance at uniting the Democratic base by promising record turnout of movement activists, appealing to crossover independent voters and drawing stark contrasts with McCain's record. Though Obama won almost as many delegates as Clinton on Tuesday, the perception of losses will help his campaign in that it will force them to deal with adversity head-on.

Tuesday shows the diversity of the Democratic Party. Americans from all walks of life have voted in the Democratic primaries and caucuses since Jan. 3. The varying results from state to state paint a tapestry of the emerging Democratic party of the 21st century. The Democratic base consists of a heterogenous cross section of America: African Americans inspired by the historic candidacy of Obama, seniors living on fixed incomes worried about the economy, Latinos building their lives and families in the United States, young voters finding a voice in their political system and women of all walks of life.

No wonder Democrats in Congress do not always vote as a bloc — the party is far from monolithic and too nuanced to coalesce on every issue. But Obama's candidacy may be the spark to inspire the Democrats to join together.

If Obama can speak to female voters as individuals — and not as a group — he will successfully appeal to the largest single demographic of Democratic primary voters. Younger women do not feel compelled to vote for Clinton, while older women share her brand of "shoulder-pad feminism," a term popularized by The New York Times' Maureen Dowd. If Obama can speak to the young women of Pennsylvania, from Penn State to Bryn Mawr to the teaming office lounges of Philadelphia, the campaign can drive a wedge into Clinton's support.

Ending the Democratic nomination contest before April 22 appears unlikely.

Should the campaign continue for an additional seven weeks, victory by Barack Obama stands the best chance of uniting the Democratic Party for a tough general election campaign against John McCain.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 11:13 AM

From CNN:

"March 6, 2008
Rolling Stone picks Obama
Posted: 12:05 PM ET
(CNN) – Rolling Stone has been endorsing candidates for president for 36 years, but never have they endorsed one during the primary season. Until now.

The magazine endorses Barack Obama for president in its upcoming issue, which hits newsstands on Friday. The cover features the Illinois senator, and the headline "Barack Obama: A New Hope."

"Politicians with gifts like Obama's are so rare that it's imperative for each of us to do our part," Rolling Stone editors write.

The publication first endorsed a candidate for president in 1972 when they picked George McGovern, a democrat. Since then, the magazine has endorsed candidates Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, Al Gore and John Kerry.

Publisher Jann Wenner — an Obama supporter who has given $2,000 to his presidential campaign — also contributed to the presidential campaigns of Gore and Kerry.

Wenner has criticized the way Hillary Clinton has run her campaign, but referred to her a "capable and personable senator." The publisher contributed $2,000 to The New York senator's first senatorial campaign in June 2000, but has not contributed to her current presidential bid.

"


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 11:15 AM

Oh--and those superdelegates?

"Four of Vermont's seven party and elected officials known as superdelegates said Wednesday they were still supporting Illinois Sen. Barack Obama, who continues to lead in the national delegate count even though New York Sen. Hillary Clinton won three of the four state primaries held Tuesday.

A fifth Vermont superdelegate said Obama's victory in Vermont's primary was enough to win him over.

"I'm supporting Obama because the people of Vermont did," said Ian Carleton, chairman of the state Democratic Party, who had said in the past he was leaning toward Obama, but hadn't committed.

Carleton said Wednesday his decision to back Obama was following the will of the Vermont voters.

Superdelegates attend the national party convention, which will be held in Denver in August, and can vote for whomever they choose.

Judy Bevans of Craftsbury, vice chair of the Vermont Democratic Party, called herself a "stauncher" Obama supporter after the primaries.

"The longer this goes on the more I like him," she said. "I like the way he campaigns ... I feel like it's a step into the 21st century not to be caught in an endless loop of the Clinton family.""

---

People--get ready. THere's a train a'comin'
Don't need no ticket.
You just get on board.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 12:35 PM

Hey, Amos...if you were a Hillary-backer, you'd have looked this up instead and posted it:

INSIGHT: Why I am an African American man for Clinton
15:00 Fri 07 Mar 2008 - Dex Walcott

"I'm tired of pseudo-liberal interpretations suggesting that contempt for Senator Obama is rooted in racial prejudice. I'm disheartened by my Black brothers guilt-tripping brothers and sisters for not supporting the first Black man to run for president of the United States. So, even though I'm not eligible to vote, I'm a Black man supporting Senator Hillary Clinton for the Democratic nomination for president of the United States.

Yes, I'd very much like to see a Black man be the president of the United States, but not any Black man, not if this Black man is yet another figurehead for forces that would lead us down the garden path of empty rhetoric and not deliver. I thought the idea of having Black men in a position of power was that they might introduce some empathy, dialogue and unity to our racially divided, conflict-wrought world, and I don't see a knee jerk vote for any Black man just because he IS a Black man bringing about that positive change. Obama says 'Yes we can!' Man, I KNOW that, but Hillary says 'Yes, we WILL!' 'Can' just ain't enough...we need a president who WILL do what needs to be done, and I see Hillary Clinton as that president..."


Heh! ;-) I composed it, of course, out of thin air, paraphrasing the article you copied and pasted from a female Obama supporter. Same psychology. I turned it around so as to demonstrate how it works. Just the same way, only opposite.

This is the partisan technique for changing "hearts and minds". Find the spokespersons of your persuasion, and quote them.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 12:39 PM

Little Hawk:

Ptui. You are so full of hot shit that your eyes are brown, you broke-dick rat-bag mammalucca. It's a good thing for this proud nation that you are a damn furriner, is all I can say!


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 12:54 PM

An interesting analysis of the actual picture of wins in Texas,as distinguished from the merdia event.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 01:23 PM

I am proud of my brown eyes, sir, and I will not have you slander them in this scurrilous and unjustifiable fashion.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 01:53 PM

For the record, I would enjoy seeing a woman president, not this particular one it goes without saying, but I think it is at least 100 times more important to have an African American president. And since most women were married, happily or unhappily in many cases, there was a man in more or less the same sitaution as every woman who had a very difficult struggle in life. So not to minimize the lot of women, who had it very tough..but so did men..going in the coal mines, riding the ranges for months on end etc. I wish he wouldn't go around insulitng Iraquis and threatening Pakistan..the man is not in any way perfect internationally although he could do an enormous amount of good in terms of diplomacy, designing systems for improving istuations etc...but anyway, I hope and hope he wins the nomination and I probably hope that he wins the presidency although he makes me very nervous outside the borders of this country...

He has a hard row to hoe going against the_______but hopefully others will take it upon themselves to point out her various fatal flaws..mg

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 01:53 PM

Have it, or have it not, as thou wilt, sirrah. I have writ my words and all the outrage in the history of Christendom will not undo them, have what you may.

As for scurrilous slander, th'art the author of such slanders as make mine own seem but a paltry moue upon a maiden's fairest visage, caused by the trifling passage of shadows in SPringtime.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 02:00 PM

LOL!!! Oh, fabulous wording, Amos! You have outdone yourself. I shall have to reel back in temporary confusion, and attempt to marshall my verbal resources before entering the fray once more...

mg - I think it would be very cool to have either a female or a Black president...but I can't think how I would go about comparing which of the two is more important...and I don't think I'd even want to.

It interferes too much with the more objective process of simply picking the best candidate one can, regardless of such considerations. It shouldn't matter, either pro or con. One day it won't matter.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 02:06 PM

Wisely put, Oh Hawk.

The bottom line is that Barack Obama is a better human being than Hillary Clinton. This may be, of course, a function of his newness to the gladiator's ring of national politics, compared to her years of scar tissue. But she strikes me as far more bitter, far more opportunistic, and far more conniving than he does.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: beardedbruce
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 03:09 PM

"The bottom line is that Barack Obama is a better human being than Hillary Clinton. This may be, of course, a function of his newness to the gladiator's ring of national politics, compared to her years of scar tissue. But she strikes me as far more bitter, far more opportunistic, and far more conniving than he does."

Damn! I hate it when I have to agree with Amos!

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 03:44 PM

I don't, BB. I take it in a spirit of brotherly celebration. Perhaps we are mutually maturing! :D


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 04:19 PM

...she strikes me as far more bitter, far more opportunistic, and far more conniving than he does.

Well, she has the advantage of having been married to Bill for a good number of years. She's had ample opportunity to hone that skill set while observing a true master of the art. She's learned well. I would give her marks equal with Bill's on the conniving and opportunistic fronts, but she actually leaves him in the dirt when it comes to bitterness.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Charley Noble
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 08:44 PM

It's true, Bill Clinton is incapable of being bitter. Obtuse? Opportunist? Conniving? Fits him like a glove! Of course Bill is also very smart, and is a survivor. Maybe Hillary learned her survival skills from him.

Charley Noble