Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafesj

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH

Related threads:
Post Katrina; Songs mentioning/about N O (12)
BS: positive suggestions for disaster planning (42)
New Orleans Musicians who survived (23)
BS: Katrina's real name? (36)
Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina) (465)
BS: Really... Why Rebuild N.O.'s???... (58)
BS: 3,000 jobless in New Orleans (26)
BS: Hurricane Rita, Mother Nature, & FEMA (155)
BS: Need info about the Red Cross (68)
BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims (96)
New Orleans Catters? (58)
BS: Black looters, white finders (224)
Lyr Add: My City's In Ruins (New Orleans) (8)
BS: So Where will The Next Disaster Hit? (91)
Hurricane Relief Song: Big Muddy (MP3) (4)
BS: New Orleans (39)
Song Challenge: Killer of New Orleans (34)
BS: My editorial cartoon on Federal Response (14)
BS: Controlling hurricanes (41)
BS: Greater Federal Authority? (23)
BS: Katrina Kamps (11)
BS: Katrina: Sequence of Events (31)
BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina (102)
BS: Left Behind in New Orleans: the elderly (25)
BS: Why 'NOLA' and suchlike? (51)
BS: Barbie explains it all (22)
Fats Domino missing in New Orleans -found! (35)
A Harrowing Account, Got to be new Thred (16)
Tabasco Sauce, Avery Isle, is it there? (12)
Neti Vaan and Bart Ramsey?Newn Orleans? (2)
BS: Houston Astrodome Censor (12)
BS: Bush to tell HIS side of story. (44)
BS: View any house in disaster area (4)
BS: PoppaGator survives Katrina.... (23)
BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV (106)
BS: remember... (6)
BS: Karl Rove v. Hillary on Katrina... (20)
BS: Genocide in New Orleans (177)
BS: more hurricane warnings (105)
BS: New Orleans Will Drown Again (65)
Hurricane Relief: How can I help? (29)
BS: Faith Based Disaster Relief! Ta Da!!! (33)
City of New Orleans - radio requests (21)
BS: the only send money syndrome (27)
BS: One Triumph Over Bureaucracy! (4)
Alive and well and OUT of New Orleans (61)
BS: Mike Brown of FEMA (6)
CD BABY and Hurricane Relief (4)
BS: Bobert to take on Katrina... (76)
Aftermath (11)
BS: Katrina photos (8)


Donuel 01 Sep 05 - 12:12 PM
Donuel 01 Sep 05 - 12:14 PM
GUEST 01 Sep 05 - 12:33 PM
McGrath of Harlow 01 Sep 05 - 12:40 PM
beardedbruce 01 Sep 05 - 12:41 PM
GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser) 01 Sep 05 - 12:48 PM
GUEST,Guy Who Thinks 01 Sep 05 - 12:51 PM
Donuel 01 Sep 05 - 12:59 PM
GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser) 01 Sep 05 - 12:59 PM
Donuel 01 Sep 05 - 01:08 PM
Janie 01 Sep 05 - 01:10 PM
beardedbruce 01 Sep 05 - 01:14 PM
Donuel 01 Sep 05 - 01:23 PM
Ebbie 01 Sep 05 - 01:24 PM
Donuel 01 Sep 05 - 01:25 PM
Donuel 01 Sep 05 - 01:40 PM
GUEST,Guy Who Thinks 01 Sep 05 - 05:49 PM
Wesley S 01 Sep 05 - 06:04 PM
GUEST,Guy Who Thinks 01 Sep 05 - 06:14 PM
George Papavgeris 01 Sep 05 - 06:15 PM
artbrooks 01 Sep 05 - 06:25 PM
McGrath of Harlow 01 Sep 05 - 06:32 PM
McGrath of Harlow 01 Sep 05 - 06:59 PM
Bee-dubya-ell 01 Sep 05 - 07:18 PM
nutty 01 Sep 05 - 07:44 PM
The Fooles Troupe 01 Sep 05 - 07:47 PM
dianavan 01 Sep 05 - 08:23 PM
McGrath of Harlow 01 Sep 05 - 08:34 PM
The Fooles Troupe 01 Sep 05 - 08:52 PM
Donuel 01 Sep 05 - 09:12 PM
GUEST,G 01 Sep 05 - 10:16 PM
bobad 01 Sep 05 - 10:36 PM
GUEST,Guy Who Thinks 01 Sep 05 - 10:50 PM
Joe Offer 02 Sep 05 - 03:29 AM
akenaton 02 Sep 05 - 03:54 AM
beardedbruce 02 Sep 05 - 07:27 AM
beardedbruce 02 Sep 05 - 07:36 AM
dianavan 02 Sep 05 - 12:24 PM
Bunnahabhain 02 Sep 05 - 05:04 PM
Amos 02 Sep 05 - 05:10 PM
The Fooles Troupe 02 Sep 05 - 08:23 PM
Peace 02 Sep 05 - 08:37 PM
Peace 02 Sep 05 - 08:39 PM
artbrooks 02 Sep 05 - 08:46 PM
Kaleea 02 Sep 05 - 08:47 PM
Cluin 02 Sep 05 - 08:53 PM
Azizi 02 Sep 05 - 11:02 PM
Azizi 02 Sep 05 - 11:23 PM
Azizi 02 Sep 05 - 11:34 PM
Azizi 02 Sep 05 - 11:52 PM
PoppaGator 02 Sep 05 - 11:55 PM
Peace 03 Sep 05 - 12:18 AM
Amos 03 Sep 05 - 12:19 AM
LadyJean 03 Sep 05 - 12:20 AM
The Fooles Troupe 03 Sep 05 - 12:48 AM
Donuel 03 Sep 05 - 10:36 AM
Stilly River Sage 03 Sep 05 - 11:01 AM
Donuel 03 Sep 05 - 11:34 AM
artbrooks 03 Sep 05 - 03:37 PM
McGrath of Harlow 03 Sep 05 - 03:38 PM
McGrath of Harlow 03 Sep 05 - 03:58 PM
bobad 04 Sep 05 - 07:06 PM
CarolC 04 Sep 05 - 07:48 PM
Amos 04 Sep 05 - 08:07 PM
Amos 04 Sep 05 - 08:10 PM
pdq 04 Sep 05 - 09:01 PM
Peace 04 Sep 05 - 10:52 PM
pdq 04 Sep 05 - 11:16 PM
Peace 04 Sep 05 - 11:19 PM
Peace 04 Sep 05 - 11:21 PM
pdq 04 Sep 05 - 11:25 PM
Peace 04 Sep 05 - 11:29 PM
Peace 04 Sep 05 - 11:37 PM
pdq 04 Sep 05 - 11:46 PM
Peace 04 Sep 05 - 11:47 PM
Peace 04 Sep 05 - 11:52 PM
Peace 04 Sep 05 - 11:54 PM
CarolC 05 Sep 05 - 02:13 AM
GUEST 05 Sep 05 - 02:19 AM
McGrath of Harlow 05 Sep 05 - 07:24 AM
Azizi 05 Sep 05 - 07:34 AM
Donuel 05 Sep 05 - 08:40 AM
pdq 05 Sep 05 - 04:40 PM
Stilly River Sage 05 Sep 05 - 04:46 PM
Peace 05 Sep 05 - 04:58 PM
Sorcha 05 Sep 05 - 05:02 PM
CarolC 05 Sep 05 - 05:02 PM
pdq 05 Sep 05 - 05:13 PM
CarolC 05 Sep 05 - 05:27 PM
CarolC 05 Sep 05 - 05:30 PM
pdq 05 Sep 05 - 05:50 PM
Peace 05 Sep 05 - 05:55 PM
CarolC 05 Sep 05 - 06:06 PM
pdq 05 Sep 05 - 09:37 PM
CarolC 05 Sep 05 - 10:49 PM
Peace 05 Sep 05 - 11:14 PM
Peace 05 Sep 05 - 11:30 PM
pdq 06 Sep 05 - 12:01 PM
Peace 06 Sep 05 - 02:01 PM
pdq 06 Sep 05 - 02:05 PM
Peace 06 Sep 05 - 02:07 PM
CarolC 06 Sep 05 - 02:12 PM
Peace 06 Sep 05 - 02:28 PM
Azizi 06 Sep 05 - 02:36 PM
Azizi 06 Sep 05 - 02:39 PM
CarolC 06 Sep 05 - 02:48 PM
McGrath of Harlow 06 Sep 05 - 06:36 PM
The Fooles Troupe 06 Sep 05 - 08:17 PM
The Fooles Troupe 06 Sep 05 - 08:28 PM
Peace 06 Sep 05 - 09:07 PM
GUEST,TIA 06 Sep 05 - 09:24 PM
Peace 06 Sep 05 - 09:27 PM
pdq 06 Sep 05 - 10:23 PM
Amos 06 Sep 05 - 10:46 PM
Amos 06 Sep 05 - 11:00 PM
GUEST,TIA 06 Sep 05 - 11:01 PM
CarolC 06 Sep 05 - 11:16 PM
Wolfgang 07 Sep 05 - 09:52 AM
GUEST,G 07 Sep 05 - 10:03 AM
Peace 07 Sep 05 - 10:11 AM
Amos 07 Sep 05 - 10:15 AM
GUEST,G 07 Sep 05 - 10:42 AM
Metchosin 07 Sep 05 - 11:16 AM
CarolC 07 Sep 05 - 12:06 PM
GUEST,G 07 Sep 05 - 01:32 PM
Peace 07 Sep 05 - 01:43 PM
CarolC 07 Sep 05 - 02:01 PM
Peace 07 Sep 05 - 02:09 PM
CarolC 07 Sep 05 - 02:14 PM
CarolC 07 Sep 05 - 11:21 PM
Azizi 07 Sep 05 - 11:31 PM
TIA 08 Sep 05 - 12:42 AM
Ebbie 08 Sep 05 - 01:34 AM
CarolC 08 Sep 05 - 02:12 AM
GUEST,G 08 Sep 05 - 07:55 AM
Stilly River Sage 08 Sep 05 - 11:49 AM
Peace 08 Sep 05 - 11:53 AM
bobad 08 Sep 05 - 01:11 PM
Amos 08 Sep 05 - 01:12 PM
TIA 08 Sep 05 - 02:55 PM
Peace 08 Sep 05 - 02:56 PM
The Fooles Troupe 08 Sep 05 - 08:55 PM
Stilly River Sage 09 Sep 05 - 08:15 PM
Stilly River Sage 09 Sep 05 - 11:37 PM
dianavan 10 Sep 05 - 01:03 AM
beardedbruce 12 Sep 05 - 02:45 PM
pdq 15 Sep 05 - 12:43 PM
Azizi 15 Sep 05 - 06:18 PM
GUEST,G 15 Sep 05 - 06:24 PM
Azizi 15 Sep 05 - 06:38 PM
Amos 15 Sep 05 - 06:49 PM
GUEST,G 15 Sep 05 - 08:23 PM
dianavan 15 Sep 05 - 08:40 PM
GUEST,G 15 Sep 05 - 08:43 PM
Donuel 16 Sep 05 - 08:45 AM
dianavan 16 Sep 05 - 08:43 PM
GUEST,G 17 Sep 05 - 09:04 AM
Donuel 17 Sep 05 - 09:25 AM
GUEST,G 17 Sep 05 - 09:40 AM
pdq 18 Sep 05 - 11:21 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 19 Sep 05 - 12:34 AM
GUEST,G 19 Sep 05 - 06:57 AM
Donuel 19 Sep 05 - 08:44 AM
GUEST 19 Sep 05 - 09:18 AM
Donuel 19 Sep 05 - 10:06 AM
Susu's Hubby 19 Sep 05 - 11:59 AM
GUEST,G 19 Sep 05 - 12:13 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 20 Sep 05 - 12:04 PM
CarolC 20 Sep 05 - 01:28 PM
CarolC 20 Sep 05 - 01:52 PM
GUEST,rarelamb 20 Sep 05 - 02:07 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 20 Sep 05 - 02:39 PM
CarolC 20 Sep 05 - 02:48 PM
CarolC 20 Sep 05 - 02:58 PM
GUEST,rarelamb 20 Sep 05 - 03:17 PM
CarolC 20 Sep 05 - 03:49 PM
CarolC 20 Sep 05 - 03:51 PM
GUEST,g 20 Sep 05 - 04:10 PM
GUEST,G 20 Sep 05 - 04:21 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 20 Sep 05 - 04:23 PM
GUEST,G 20 Sep 05 - 04:38 PM
GUEST,G 20 Sep 05 - 04:41 PM
Azizi 20 Sep 05 - 07:30 PM
CarolC 20 Sep 05 - 10:22 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 20 Sep 05 - 11:03 PM
dianavan 21 Sep 05 - 12:31 AM
GUEST,G 21 Sep 05 - 12:53 AM
dianavan 21 Sep 05 - 01:32 AM
GUEST,G 21 Sep 05 - 07:42 AM
Bobert 21 Sep 05 - 08:10 AM
GUEST,rarelamb 21 Sep 05 - 09:51 AM
Donuel 21 Sep 05 - 10:15 AM
CarolC 21 Sep 05 - 12:22 PM
CarolC 21 Sep 05 - 12:40 PM
GUEST,rarelamb 21 Sep 05 - 12:56 PM
CarolC 21 Sep 05 - 02:27 PM
GUEST,G 21 Sep 05 - 02:29 PM
CarolC 21 Sep 05 - 02:31 PM
CarolC 21 Sep 05 - 05:40 PM
Leadfingers 21 Sep 05 - 06:38 PM
dianavan 22 Sep 05 - 01:20 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 22 Sep 05 - 01:21 AM
Barry Finn 23 Sep 05 - 12:12 AM
Stilly River Sage 26 Sep 05 - 04:32 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 26 Sep 05 - 05:22 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 26 Sep 05 - 05:51 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 26 Sep 05 - 07:21 PM
Ebbie 26 Sep 05 - 07:27 PM

Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum Child
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:













Subject: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 12:12 PM

The warnings are over. We are now in an end game.


There is a waiting game going on.

IT is part of the oldest struggle in civilization - class war.
Rescue the rich because the poor are worth less.
Stadium housing is less than 1% of the displaced poor but are ideal for media focus.

Pointing this out is neither remarkable or bemoaning the fact that inaction of a few days can eliminate a large segment of an undesirable element of the population.

Is there money to react? Yes and no.


DHS | Department of Homeland Security | Fact Sheet: US Department ...
Homeland Security budget request totals $41.1 billion, up from $36 billion in 2004.

Where are they after 3 days? Still outside the area of downtown.

Our leader speaks...
President George W. Bush declared that "there will be zero tolerance for looters...
I am Confident you will build your life back up and America will be stronger for it."
.....................................
Humanitarian search and rescue manpower will now be diverted to police enforcement of property laws.
www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/interapp/

Over 1,200 police are to switch from search and rescue today to battle the pillageing of grocery stores.
press_release/press_release_0613.xml

The Red Cross says they only have $1 1/2 million dollars to deal with Katrina. Where did the $6 billion in surplus 9-11 funds go?


........................................

Homeland Security chief Chertoff is talking about official survey's, fact finding committees, and data scrutiny before a total deployment of homeland security relief can be undertaken.
*****************************************************************

It seems if they can only drag their feet another 5 days they should be able to eradicate at least 70% of the extremely poor to thirst and disease.

Deliberate inaction is apparent when the wealthy Tulane University hospital in New Orleans was evacuated by a special National Guard unit but the State Hospital across the street did not get so much as a knock on the door even 3 days later.

The White hotel guests in New Orleans had dozens of private buses take them away much to the consternation of the black residents who were not allowed on board.

*****************************************************************

This disaster seems to have the post event plans of Iraq.
I am sure with the expertise of Halliburton they can get the electricity up and going within 3 years like they have in Iraq.


Watch the self congratulation speeches made by Chertoff, FEMA and Red Cross chiefs. So far the Salvation Army has done the most good.

Watch carefully as all blame for poor disaster relief will be put on the shoulders of the looters. The poor will be made the scapegoat here.

They will be blamed for lack of food water and generators due to looting. I am seeing only 95% black people in the Superdome fiasco.

The victims will have no spokesperson. Instead we will see only Federal chiefs and Govenors telling the "big story".

You can bet on it.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 12:14 PM

hurricaine warnings


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 12:33 PM

Donuel, I find it impossible to discern whether you are playing "Devils Advocate' or that you are completely disatisfied with life.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 12:40 PM

I hope that this disaster makes it impossible for the politicians in Washington to keep their heads buried in the sand about global warming, as they shrug off the warnings about the dangers ahead. Monday, August 29th, 2005
Is Global Warming Causing More Devastating Hurricanes Worldwide?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: beardedbruce
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 12:41 PM

Donuel,

Unless you have information to the contrary, I suggest you change your statement to :

"The HOTEL GUESTS in New Orleans had dozens of private buses take them away much to the consternation of the LOCAL RESIDENTS who were not allowed on board."


I doubt if black hotel guests were removed, or local white residents were allowed on. What you are doing is inciting racial unrest, for your own reasons.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 12:48 PM

Watched the news last night. Shot of men in baseball caps pushing SUVs along the road.

Now do we get it?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: GUEST,Guy Who Thinks
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 12:51 PM

The current "Looters/Finders" thread has more of this.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 12:59 PM

Good, lets all pretend it isn't happening. The TV reporters on the ground have been using code words like "an obvious division" is going on.

No I did not mean to imply that non white hotel guests were not allowed on buses. Remember that class war applies to haves vs. have nots more than any artificial racial divides.

They have said that the people downtown (blacks) are making it impossible to be rescued and are violent with rescuers while the people in the suberbs are gentle gracious and appreciative.

beardedbruce, I could just as easily say that you are inciting mudcat unrest for your own reasons and it would be just as non-sensical as your accusation. - so I won't.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 12:59 PM

Any news of Poppa Gator?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 01:08 PM

He's high and dry in KY


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Janie
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 01:10 PM

Donuel--From what I am reading on the mainstream internet media outlets--The lack of social control is seriously inhibiting rescue and recovery efforts. "Looters", I think, is being used to include anti-social and mob behaviors that are detremental to the life and security of those involved in rescue efforts.

Related, but still thread drift--We here in the USA have rarely, if ever, experienced a disaster on such a large scale, and that has so completely wiped out our considerable infrastructure and ability of social institutions to function. We have often observed this in third world countries. As I read about deaths because aid can not reach people along the Gulf Coast, and about the lawlessness and panic-driven violence occurring, I am reminded of scenes such as those in Bagdad immediately after our invasion. Just goes to show that all around the world, people are more alike than they are different--definitely brothers (and sisters) under the skin.

Janie


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: beardedbruce
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 01:14 PM

Then talk about CLASS rather than RACE.

Should I say that WHITE residents of Montgomery county MD have a greater say in county affairs than BLACK renters?

It may be true- but only in that there are more RESIDENTS than RENTERS. A true statement, then, but one that misrepresents the situation. You forgot to say how, before the hurricane, the WHITE guests were provided clean beds, and the BLACK residents had to go get their own, as well.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 01:23 PM

Janie: here are pictures right after the fall of Baghdad.

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/iraqloot.jpg

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/iraqloot1.jpg

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/iraqloot2.jpg


I also have pictures of US servicemen stripping gold off the walls of palaces in Iraq.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 01:24 PM

I agree with BeardedBruce. To the extent that it's happening, it is inevitably about class. And at this point, if we are not personally there helping, it is counterproductive to incite hatred and division, imo.

Rumors have horses.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 01:25 PM

Bearded bruce - editorial point well taken. The class war too easily gets perverted to a racial only divide.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 01:40 PM

quote from PappaGator

"How can people be trained not to express their unconscious prejudices? One woman on CNN, in particular, has been driving me nuts ~ she is so full of racial hatred (unconsicous, I'm sure, and expressed only obliquely) that I almost had to scream.

There is definitely criminal activity going on, but taking food (that will be going bad soon anyway) out of grocery stores does not fit that category.

New Orleans has its share of thugs ands criminals, and after everyone with a working vehicle and a credit card had left town, the gangbanger portion of the population shot up from maybe 1% of a million people to a good 20% of the remaining thousands. Also, the most skillful criminals left town in their Lincoln Navigators along with the rest of us. The people left in town are almost all black and almost all very poor ~ and the amoral characters among them are very dangerous people indeed."


He is right on the money


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: GUEST,Guy Who Thinks
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 05:49 PM

No evidence of any plot, genocidal or otherwise.

Even Marx and Lenin recognized the existence of a "lumpenproletariat," people so degraded that they were useful only as violent enforcers of revolution. These are the sort of people who are being classed as looters along with those who are simply taking food and water. The difference is that the criminals want plunder.

The gangbangers had every reason to stay in town. First, only cowards run from something like a storm. Second, they face death from a drive-by shooting every day, so how's Katrina any different? Third, if they leave, the other gang may come by and torch their house. Some of them don't want to leave a sick parent. And who wants to sit in a traffic jam for hours anyway? Finally, if they stay, they can loot. Maybe they can settle some scores. They can be hurricane kings. (Nobody counted on a flood and the possibility of drowning or starving.)

So no one should be surprised at sociopathic behavior. I don't think city officials are surprised. Anarchy often follows disasters like this.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Wesley S
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 06:04 PM

So we've reverted back to Dodge City. And in a few weeks New Orleans will look almost medieval.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: GUEST,Guy Who Thinks
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 06:14 PM

I fear that in a few weeks no one there now will be left alive in that swamp. Just terrible.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 06:15 PM

Fats Domino missing in New Orleans


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: artbrooks
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 06:25 PM

According to the news I read, Tulane University Hospital, which is owned and operated by Hospital Corporation of America, is being evacuated by helicopters leased by HCA. Charity Hospital, which is across the street, is being evacuated by Guard choppers using the Tulane helipad. These helicopters, as well as ones at the Superdome and the Convention Center, have been fired upon by "civilians."   A number of hotel guests rented buses to get themselves out of the city, but the buses were confiscated by the military to be used for the Superdome evacuation.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 06:32 PM

There just doesn't seem to have been any adequate contingency planning for this. And yet it could have been predicted that sooner or later it was going to happen in a part of the world where hurricanes are a regular event.

And in fact it was known that Katrina was headed for New Orleans well enough in advance to have put into action an effective complete evacuation to places which were safe, if there had been adequate advance planning.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 06:59 PM

Here's a link to an explanation of "Hurricane Categories" by the "National Weather Service's Hurricane Center".

Katrina was the top Category, Category Five - and the point is, Category Five Hurricanes had stuck the US mainland no fewer than three times since records began, in 1935, 1969 and 1992, with another near miss in 1988.

This was predictable. The failure to prepare for it, to put the work into maintaining and improving the flood defences, in line with the recommendations of the professional experts, and the failure to have a proper evacuation plan in place, are nothing short of criminal. Literally so.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 07:18 PM

To add another thought to Guy Who Thinks' comments above, New Orleans, like all big cities, has a drug problem. I don't know how severe NO's drug problem is, nor do I know how many drug addicts live (or used to live) in the city. But you can bet almost none of them evacuated or sought shelter. One of the main things an addict needs is a place to practice his addiction and in the Superdome with 20,000 other people doesn't really fit the bill.

And most of those addicts are now going into withdrawal because their suppliers either evacuated or are dead. As the authorities start rounding up the last few thousand people left in the city and forcing them to leave the city and go to refugee camps there are going to be a large number of very sick junkies, crackheads and meth-heads among them.

Just another item to be added to the list of issues the folks who are charged with caring for the storm's refugees are going to have to deal with.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: nutty
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 07:44 PM

I still haven't found out what they are going to do with the prisoners..... any ideas??

Further to the post about addicts.
This could be a major cause of the looting. No addict is going to pass up an opportunity to hoard anything he/she thinks will make them enough money to buy drugs.
As they will also have problems obtaining money or drugs from legitimate sources (eg benefit cheques, atm machines, pharmacies )who can blame them.

The gun problem is also exacerbated by the fact that citizens of the USA are legally allowed to carry guns.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 07:47 PM

For very many years, there has been a determination to keep a city built on swamp ground lower than sea level alive in defiance of Nature. Of course, Venice was a city which had lots of reasons to save it. So it was thought, did New Orleans.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: dianavan
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 08:23 PM

bb - "Should I say that WHITE residents of Montgomery county MD have a greater say in county affairs than BLACK renters?"

Renters are also residents.

Land owners have a greater say than renters.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 08:34 PM

Well, they don't have an annual hurricane season in Venice. And, even so, they don't cut back on the essential maintenance work in order to finance foreign wars, while still giving massive tax breaks to rich people.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 08:52 PM

Actually, they do have a regular season of prevailing winds, which pushes up elevated tidal flows.

And while we are on the subject of people living in areas with high risk of natural Disasters, don't forget people who live near volcanoes.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 09:12 PM

And while we are on the subject of people living in areas with high risk of natural Disasters, I think there was a completely safe planet in the Ganglia Galaxy but it was vaporized by a super nova.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: GUEST,G
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 10:16 PM

I wonder quite frequently regarding what the Brits and others think about the great and powerful USA. Some of our examples are quite disturbing.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: bobad
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 10:36 PM

An old man in a chaise lounge lay dead in a grassy median as hungry babies wailed around him. Around the corner, an elderly woman lay dead in her wheelchair, covered up by a blanket, and another body lay beside her wrapped in a sheet.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: GUEST,Guy Who Thinks
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 10:50 PM

We'd better prepare ourselves for many such images in the days to come. They're part of the definition of "catastrophe."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane Aftermath
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 03:29 AM

It does seem that the Feds are being slow to respond to this disaster. I guess it's because Bush channeled all our money into his war games in Iraq.

Here's an excerpt from religious perspective that I found interesting. I got it in an e-mail - the entire article is here (click) on the Web. I think it's a pretty rational insight into what's wrong with our society, particularly in the U.S.
    Katrina, God and Social Morality
    by Rabbi Michael Lerner

    The white majority of the people of Louisiana elected Congressional representatives who enthusiastically support the war in Iraq and the Bush Administration's environmental irresponsibility. When economic devastation hit workers in northern cities over the past several decades, Louisianans voted to downsize the federal government and to let others fend for themselves. Many talked about the glories of relying on the free marketplace rather than on the "handouts" from a national government that they abhorred. Or they told the poor and the homeless in northern cities that "if they worked harder or had better habits or were smarter they'd have employment and wouldn't have to depend on others' help. Or they saw that suffering of others as "the hand of God."

    And yet, the law of karma or Torah doesn't work on a one to one basis, delivering "just rewards" to those who have been directly involved in causing evil, as JOB noted in the Bible and as we can note watching global warming play out. The terrible truth is that it is the POOR, the MOST VULNERABLE, who are the first to suffer. The wealthy built their homes on higher ground, had better information, more insurance, and more avenues of escape. So whether it is in facing the rising waters in Bangladesh or Malaysia or Lousiana and Missippi, it's going to be "the least among us" who will suffer most immediately. This is why it is inappropriate to blame the victim: because the way the world has been created, the consequences of past social injustice, war and ecological irresponsibility come to a whole planet--because from the cosmic perspective we are one, we are all interdependent—and those who suffer most are often not even those who are most culpable. Ditto with environmental cancers—it's often not the oil company executives but poor people living in proximity to the air and water polluted by corporate irresponsibility and abetted by the lawmakers who depend on corporate contributions and pay them back by imposing the weakest possible environmental regulations.

    When some Christian fundamentalists talk about these as signs of the impending doom of the planet, they are laughed off as irrational cranks. It's true that these fundamentalists see no connection between the doom and the environmental irresponsibility that the politicians they support have brought us. But nevertheless, their perception that we are living at "the end of time" can't be dismissed by those of us who know that the life support systems of this planet are increasingly "in danger" if politics continues the way it has been going, with politicians in BOTH parties capitulating regularly to the ethos of selfishness and materialism that is sustained by our corporate plunderers but is validated by the votes of ordinary citizens.

    Yet the fundamentalist message is deeply misleading also, because it seems to suggest that all this is out of our hands, part of some divine scheme. But it's not. The biblical version is quite different from what they say: it insists that the choice between life and death is in our hands. After laying out the consequences of abandoning a path of justice and righteousness, the Torah makes it clear that it is up to us. CHOOSE LIFE, it tells us. That choosing of life means transforming our social system in ways that neither Democrats nor Republicans have yet been willing to consider—toward a new bottom line of love and caring, kindness and generosity, ethical and ecological responsibility, and awe and wonder at the grandeur of the universe replacing a narrow utilitarian approach to Nature.

    --Rabbi Michael Lerner
    Editor, Tikkun and co-chair (with Cornel West and Sister Joan Chittister) of the Tikkun Community
    author, The Left Hand of God (forthcoming in January from HarperSanFrancisco)
    www.tikkun.org


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 03:54 AM

"they didn't listen, they're not listening still.

I guess they never will"

Vincent......Don McLean.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 07:27 AM

dianavan,

"Land owners have a greater say than renters"

Only in that they ( may) be a larger number. Her in the US, one gets to vote whether one ones property or not... A small development you may have overlooked, and a change since the 18th century.

My point was that the reason that the HOTEL GUESTS had buses and the LOCAL RESIDENTS did not was NOT due to race, and the use of race does nothing to help solve the ( obvious) problems.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 07:36 AM

..."owns property"...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: dianavan
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 12:24 PM

beardedbruce - I too, do not believe that this is a racial problem but a social problem. It just so happens that those on the bottom rung are mostly Black.

Your post implied that renters were not residents.

I replied that land owners and renters are both residents but that land owners have more power. Yes, everyone has a vote but a vote is not the only power an individual. Land owners (being wealthier) also have more free time to lobby and become political at many different levels.

Your assumption that rich and poor have the same amount of political power is wrong.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 05:04 PM

Stadium housing is less than 1% of the displaced poor but are ideal for media focus.


Reliable media reports of just under 20,000 people at the stadium.

Are there really 2 million people left in a city that was mostly evacuated before the hurricane?

The 2000 census put the population of Greater New orleans as 1.3 million.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Amos
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 05:10 PM

"I don't think this is a simple tale of incompetence. The reason the military wasn't rushed in to help along the Gulf Coast is, I believe, the same reason nothing was done to stop looting after the fall of Baghdad. Flood control was neglected for the same reason our troops in Iraq didn't get adequate armor.

At a fundamental level, I'd argue, our current leaders just aren't serious about some of the essential functions of government. They like waging war, but they don't like providing security, rescuing those in need or spending on preventive measures. And they never, ever ask for shared sacrifice.

Yesterday Mr. Bush made an utterly fantastic claim: that nobody expected the breach of the levees. In fact, there had been repeated warnings about exactly that risk.

So America, once famous for its can-do attitude, now has a can't-do government that makes excuses instead of doing its job. And while it makes those excuses, Americans are dying. "

Paul Krugman, NY Times 9-2-05


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 08:23 PM

Donuel

Our sun will burn out in 6 billion years, but before that, in about 4 billion years, our galaxy collides with another...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Peace
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 08:37 PM

Fire insurance and collision insurance. It's the only answer.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Peace
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 08:39 PM

It is obvious now that the city should have been evacuated. What plans will be made in the future to ensure that transport is available for all people and that all people will be forced to evacuate? That is a question that needs consideration, IMO.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: artbrooks
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 08:46 PM

If someone wants to leave, the transportation should be available for them to do so; and so far I have heard a lot of negative speculation but I seen nothing at all that says whether it was there or not. However, I would not like to be the individual charged with going from house to house and forcing people from their homes.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Kaleea
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 08:47 PM

Imagine if all the energy we spend opining (of which I am guilty) were instead spent upon positive actions.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Cluin
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 08:53 PM

That would throw things all out of balance, Kaleea. And Nature abhors a vaccuum. What would slouch forth to fill its place?

Better the devil you know.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Azizi
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 11:02 PM

Is it true that the Red Cross wasn't allowed in New Orleans after the hurricane??

See excerpts from this dailykos diary:
[Red Cross NEVER allowed into New Orleans. by SteveRose
Fri Sep 2nd, 2005]

"...This whole week has been so depressing. My Red Cross donation was one bright spot. At least I had done something to help.

Then, after reading dKos and the other blogs all week and seeing over and over again comments that that FEMA and the NG were no where to be seen from the people on the ground in NO, I was wondering where the Red Cross was in all this. They were never mentioned. It was like they didn't exist. And, after yesterday's drama at the convention center, the Brown and Chertoff lies, the Red Cross was still MIA. Then, earlier today, I saw a note that the Red Cross was not allowed to enter NO. Hmm, that's doesn't make sense. This simmered for a couple hours.

So I called the Red Cross and asked them if its true....

And, to my surprise, the nice lady answering the phone said it was true and they told/asked/ordered not to enter NO. She then went right into her spiel about all the other work the Red Cross was doing across the region. I said that's nice, but I still didn't understand why they weren't in NO. To my amazement, she patiently explained it to me. I even called back to verify what she said. This time she asked if I was media, I said no, just a concerned and confused contributor.

So here goes: Homeland Security (her term, not mine) told the Red Cross DO NOT enter New Orleans and says this still now. And why, you may ask? Not Security. Not worker safety. Not lack of access. It was because people would be drawn to the Red Cross food and they wouldn't want to go to be evacuated. So I asked: "The people starving and dying at the convention center yesterday couldn't get Red Cross food and water because they would be drawn to the food at the convention center, where they were, and not want to be evacuated from the convention center where no evacuations were going on or planned and all the while they are dying". (Actually, it was a couple questions.) She went back into her spiel about all of the other good work they were doing. When I asked again, she said yes, that was true. She seem relieved to admit it.

In closing, I asked if she asked this question before since she was very familiar with the answer she gave. She said yes..."

-snip-

Click HERE for comments from dailykos bloggers.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Azizi
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 11:23 PM

The Red Cross website has a Frequently Asked Question page that responds to the question "Why is the Red Cross not in New Orleans?"

Here is that relief organization's answer to that question:

"Hurricane Katrina: Why is the Red Cross not in New Orleans?


Acess to New Orleans is controlled by the National Guard and local authorities and while we are in constant contact with them, we simply cannot enter New Orleans against their orders.

The state Homeland Security Department had requested--and continues to request--that the American Red Cross not come back into New Orleans following the hurricane. Our presence would keep people from evacuating and encourage others to come into the city.

The Red Cross has been meeting the needs of thousands of New Orleans residents in some 90 shelters throughout the state of Louisiana and elsewhere since before landfall. All told, the Red Cross is today operating 149 shelters for almost 93,000 residents.

The Red Cross shares the nation's anguish over the worsening situation inside the city. We will continue to work under the direction of the military, state and local authorities and to focus all our efforts on our lifesaving mission of feeding and sheltering.

The Red Cross does not conduct search and rescue operations. We are an organization of civilian volunteers and cannot get relief aid into any location until the local authorities say it is safe and provide us with security and access.

The original plan was to evacuate all the residents of New Orleans to safe places outside the city. With the hurricane bearing down, the city government decided to open a shelter of last resort in the Superdome downtown. We applaud this decision and believe it saved a significant number of lives.

As the remaining people are evacuated from New Orleans, the most appropriate role for the Red Cross is to provide a safe place for people to stay and to see that their emergency needs are met. We are fully staffed and equipped to handle these individuals once they are evacuated."


Red Cross Site


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Azizi
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 11:34 PM

Babies, children, women, and men in the New Orleans Convention Center and elsewhere in that city have died and are dying because they haven't had food or water.

Many of the people still in New Orleans have no cars of their own and no money to purchase other means of transportation out of the city, if such transportation could have been found. To blame them for not leaving that city on their own before the hurricane struck is beyond insensitive.

When I donated to the Red Cross I assumed that this relief organization was providing support to the people who are still waiting to be evacuated from New Orleans.

I guess my assumption was wrong.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Azizi
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 11:52 PM

And given the fact that tourists from the USA and other nations loved to visit New Orleans and many flew into that city [and didn't rent cars while they were there], one can also assume that there are tourists who were unable to leave that city when the evacuation order was made.

Since the Red Cross isn't allowed to go into New Orleans, presumably these tourists have also been without food and water. Unless they "found" some.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: PoppaGator
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 11:55 PM

This storm was "predictable," but only about 24-36 hours before it hit. It was a category 1 hurricane when it crossed the Florida peninula a few days earlier. When it got into the overheated Gulf of Mexico, it suddenly ballooned to huge proportions.

We left work Friday afternoon without taking any of the usual hurricane precautions. Computers were left turned on and on the floor Two days before the storm hit, it was not perceived as a threat at all.

Change of subject: In this morning's newspaper here in Paducah, KY, I saw a friend stranded in New Orleans in an AP wirephoto. I tried to find a copy on the internet so I could post a link ~ no luck. I'll just have to describe it:

Bob Rue is a fellow member of our Mardi Gras club, the Krewe of Mama Roux. Actually, since Peggy and I are the currently reigning king and queen of Mama Roux (perhaps the last ever), we could say he's one of our "subjects." He owns an oriental rug store and stayed in town to protect his business. The photo shows hm shirtless and sweating in the doorway of his shop, with this message spray-painted on the plywood boarding up his display window:

DON'T EVEN TRY
I AM SLEEPING INSIDE
WITH A BIG DOG
AN UGLY WOMAN
TWO SHOTGUNS
AND A CLAW HAMMER.

Ah, the indominatible spirit of wiseass humor!

One more thing: Check this site, a "blog" and webcam being maintained by the staff of a small local ISP who stayed in town and are telling us what's really happening on the ground:

http://www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor/


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Peace
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 12:18 AM

Thanks for the link to that, PG. Very happy you're safe.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Amos
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 12:19 AM

Thanks, PG> I tell ya, the dramatic contrast between CNN, Fox and the guys in that ISP team are somethin'.

A


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: LadyJean
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 12:20 AM

Go to www.partylaunch.com/hurricanehelp, and find out how to host a house party to aid hurricane victims. All money will go to legitimate organizations that are doing what the government is supposed to do but can't be bothered. Kvetching is fine, but sometimes you have to do something.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 12:48 AM

There are several Queenslanders and many other Australians in NO. Some of them have already made it onto TV here. One guy (with his wife) was saying 'Johnny Howard, where are you?" - that has been getting a lot of airplay! Another clip of him (played less often) when asked what he was doing for food and water, replied with typical Aussie Larikanism/Honesty - "Looting!".

Several others have had famililes locally with who they have made contact advise that the only supplies they have been getting is by stealing - no other method is possible.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 10:36 AM

Azizi, thank you for clarifying the Red Cross "stand down" order.
It is the National Guard's respondsibility. We all know where they are.

When Hurricaine Camille hit the south, Nixon had troops at the sites of devestation inside 3 days. The standing flood waters of New Orleans added only 1 day before the first National Guard response reached the Stadium.


I wish to revise my remark: "Stadium housing can hold less than 1% of the displaced poor."

I should have said "Stadium shelter". It served only as a last resort shelter from the wind and rain and was not prepared to house anyone with food water and sanitation. People probably expected housing but with only 24 hours to prepare, shelter was all to be had.

The Texas stadium is trying to provide basic emergency housing needs.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 11:01 AM

With the arrival of more buses and as the closest stadiums fill I won't be surprised at all to hear of stadiums in Oklahoma City, El Paso, and Albuquerque eventually housing refugees.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 11:34 AM

I am waiting for the first protest from the NFL.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: artbrooks
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 03:37 PM

The one in Albuquerque doesn't have a roof.......


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 03:38 PM

"This storm was "predictable," but only about 24-36 hours before it hit."

There's predictable in the sense of being able to say exactly where it was going to hit and how bad it was going to be, and what Poppagator said there was clearly true, at least in terms of what people had been told.

But there's also predictable in the sense of it being known that Category Five hit the US mainland every few years - and that the levees had not been built to an adequate standard to deal with a storm of that magnitude. And that adequate evacuation procedures and facilities had not been prepared in advance in case one of those Category Five hurricanes came to New Orleans, with its particular low-lying problems.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 03:58 PM

Here is a link to an impassioned but objective piece by BBC correspondent Matt Wells - New Orleans crisis shames Americans

It's well worth reading in full - here are the first few paragraphs:

At the end of an unforgettable week, one broadcaster on Friday bitterly encapsulated the sense of burning shame and anger that many American citizens are feeling.

The only difference between the chaos of New Orleans and a Third World disaster operation, he said, was that a foreign dictator would have responded better.

It has been a profoundly shocking experience for many across this vast country who, for the large part, believe the home-spun myth about the invulnerability of the American Dream.

The party in power in Washington is always happy to convey the impression of 50 states moving forward together in social and economic harmony towards a bigger and better America.

That is what presidential campaigning is all about.

But what the devastating consequences of Katrina have shown - along with the response to it - is that for too long now, the fabric of this complex and overstretched country, especially in states like Louisiana and Mississippi, has been neglected and ignored.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: bobad
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 07:06 PM

More tragedy:

Sunday, September 4, 2005 · Last updated 3:42 p.m. PT

Police kill five as contractors attacked

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

NEW ORLEANS -- Police shot and killed at least five people Sunday after gunmen opened fire on a group of contractors traveling across a bridge on their way to make repairs, authorities said.

Deputy Police Chief W.J. Riley said police shot at eight people carrying guns, killing five or six.

Fourteen contractors were traveling across the Danziger Bridge under police escort when they came under fire, said John Hall, a spokesman for the Army Corps of Engineers.

They were on their way to launch barges into Lake Pontchartrain to help plug the breech in the 17th Street Canal, Hall said.

None of the contractors was killed, Hall said.

The bridge spans a canal connecting Lake Pontchartrain and the Mississippi River.

No other details were immediately available.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 07:48 PM

Here's what that guy with the blog says about the bridge shootings...


"Law enforcement have absolutely lost their minds. Some guy wearing khaki fatigues and black vests which say Police on them have their faces covered in black ski masks and are touting M4-A1s with front hand grips -- like they're some kind of Delta Force operators waiting to hit the tire house. They're guarding the four corners around the Bell South building for crying out loud. And what, they need secret identities? Come on. You can just tell some of these guys have never gotten out before. Now's their big chance to play Army"

"I hope these are false rumors, but we're hearing that the people who were shot on the bridge were Army Corps of Engineer. I told you these military wannabes were gonna get someone hurt. Someone needs to real in these paramilitary types."

http://www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor/


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Amos
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 08:07 PM

From and Assciate Professor at Tulane, sent today (Sunday, September 4, 2005)

>OK. Here is the latest from STP.
>   
> What this office has done in conjunction with the Fire Districts, National
>Guard, Red Cross and gobs of volunteers from Quebec, Ohio, Washington,
>Indiana, etc is beyond remarkable.
>   
> FEMA has yet to show its shit-ass face here. That branch of government is
>an absolute disgrace. We have done it all without FEMA. No appreciable
>supply of food, ice, tarps or fuel.
>   
> The roads of STP are all basically passable. Only a few remain confined to
>one lane. They say we are 70 % back. My guess is that by the time you arrive
>in the next week or so that you will wonder if, indeed, there ever was a
>hurricane. You have no clue what the Fire Districts have done. I strongly
>suggest and ask all you to simply take the time to consider making a meal or
>cake or both for your respective Station in your area. They are flipping
>incredible.
>   
> The National Guard is now all over the place. Its crews are also busting
>hump to pick up debris. They have big cranes and other equipment.
>Impressive. Quick. Clean. Professional. I am very lucky and proud to witness
>these guys at work.
>   
> Power is on in many places. There are nasty rumors that power will be on
>from Mandeville to Madisonville south of I-12 next week. Remember this is
>only a rumor.
>   
> POwer is on all along Hwy 21 north of I-12. Same for 190 to Claiborne Hill.
>Power is on throughout Covington. It is slowly creeping out beyond the major
>thoroughfares.
>   
> There is just so much to do.
>   
> Water and sewer is basically coming back strong. Southeast Water is almost
>back to full strength. Utilities Inc. is the same.
>   
> Gas is still available but line are long. Apparantly computer access is
>difficult, so gas is bought by cash only. This is creating problems of
>course.
>   
> Wal-Mart, Winn-Dixie, Rouses, Aquistapaces are all open. Walgreens and CVS
>are open.
>   
> Life is returning.
>   
> All hospitals are up and running: Heart Hospital, Slidell Memorial, St.
>Tammany, Lakeview.
>   
> Red Cross is kicking ass. They turned out 36,000 hot meals today from their
>stationary kitchens, plus God knows how many from its mobile units that
>travel from neighborhood to neighborhhood.
>   
> There are temporary shelters every in the Parish that currently are housing
>7,500 people. These shelters are primarily in public schools, so that means
>that no school until at least October 1 or until people go home.
>   
> Volunteers from out of state are pouring in. Today, 150+ men from North
>Carolina arrived and fanned out to do people's private driveways. I
>understand that they absolutely butchered trees along Hwy 59 in Mandeville
>and wiped out problems in lower Slidell. They are appparently an organized
>mass of worker bees who attack an area with avengence. I did not see it, but
>the stories at our nightly meeting bring tears to your eyes when you think
>about people who have been trapped for a week.
>   
> Then there are the Church groups who have the same chain-saw gangs. They
>also provide meals and clothing.
>   
> These groups come in with their own heavy equipement. With a signed
>release, they will cut away and remove trees from atop your home. They will
>cut and clear your driveway.
>   
> Guys and gals, this is incredible. It is organized and orchestrated from
>this office. Our team is great and it has been held together by Mr. Davis
>and CAO Bill Oiler. And yet, FEMA has not arrived.
>   
> I have just received word that 63 generators have been delivered for
>distribution to the various shelters. There is also a caravan of 4 tankers
>of 6,400 gallons of water arriving in a few minutes. This is typical of what
>we see every hour on the hour. And it is being done by this group at EOC.
>   
> Slidell and Lacombe are still in trouble. Some streets are still blocked
>and people are trapped.
>   
> Now, on another note, I made two trips to New orleans today. Yes, two.
>Across the Causeway to uptown to look for my family. I could not find them
>on the first trip, but upon my return to Covington, I learned that someone
>was in dire straits, so I returned with 5 gallons of diesel to help someone
>out. I crossed the Causeway twice. It is in bad shape and both ends of the
>span; the water action has separated the north end elevated portion from the
>land portion. Same for the south end. There is approximately a four to ten
>foot section missing from each end.
>   
> As for the City, there are many, many trees down. Mostly oaks along St.
>Charles Ave. Nowhere near the devastation on the northshore, though.
>   
> No people on the streets. Eerily empty, but for sporadic police vehicles.
>   
> Military helicopters everywhere. Sporadic smoke rising from fires around
>the City. Weird feeling.
>   
> There are huge copters air-lifting people from the I-10 @ causeway roadway.
>I stopped and watch 20 to 25 people load up and be whisked away.
>   
> Copters are re-fueling from big air transports over the Lake. Very
>interesting to watch.
>   
> Roads are still flooded. Airline Highway is flooded under the Causeway.
>Cars are still stranded in the lanes of traffic. I spoke with a guy this
>afternoon who described how he was at his shop near the Quarter and he
>watched how the water came down Canal Street when the levee broke.
>   
> Anyway, this is the latest report.
>   
> I hope to up-date you soon with better and better news. I just can't tell
>you when to return.
>   
> I guess we'll know all is in order when soccer starts...
>
>


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Amos
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 08:10 PM

ANd from another correspondent who grew up in the NO area:

>I am taking the time out to write this note to this group for a number of
>reasons. One, because I know that the collective intelligence of this group
>is such that you want to know what is really happening, not what is only
>making the news wires or CNN. Secondly, it helps me to organize my thoughts,
>which to tell you the truth are not working that well. Third, perhaps my
>writings will help you understand what is going on down here --not just in
>New Orleans -- but in my hometown, and in other cities that are not even
>making the nightly news reports or the screen tickers.
>
>First, the facts are clear -- FEMA has done an
>completely reprehensible job in terms of responding to this disaster.
>Absolutely embarrassing. Positively disgusting. When I went home Friday I
>did not even go to the hardest hit areas in Mississippi. I did not even go
>into New Orleans.
>
>But where I did go was where hard-working people live every day. And they
>pay their taxes. And they have nice homes. Or rather they HAD nice homes.
>
>And their homes now are pretty much destroyed by either water and/or
>horrific tree damage.
>
>But that is just the beginning.
>
>NOWHERE was there any National Guard presence. Or Army. Or Air Force. Or
>squat. Absolutely nothing. My father told me that no one had come to his
>house to make sure he was okay. He had no information about food or water.
>He had talked to NO ONE.
>
>Instead the only police presence I saw the entire time I was on the
>Northshore was at the checkpoint into the more heavily damaged area of
>Slidell. You had to show ID to local police to get in.
>
>Oh, and then there was the situation at the hospital and the nursing home
>where my mother is -- or was. But that is a story for a bit later.
>
>In my own neighborhood, which is (was) a lovely older development, heavy
>with trees, our neighbors who are still there have not seen one bit of
>police presence, military, anything. I have to say that the Parish did bring
>in bulldozers to clear the streets of trees -- and that is good. We also
>have water pressure. Both are good in that at least a fire truck can now get
>to a fire and they have water to fight it with.
>
>But my point is that NO locality has the resources to handle the aftermath
>of such a storm without federal help. The police are too busy trying to
>rescue people, and just get the Parish up and running again. There is no way
>the local law enforcement officials can deal with something like this.
>
>And again, I'm not talking about rescuing people off roofs. I'm talking
>basic rescue from areas behind downed trees. People who are sick and have to
>get to a hospital. Basic rescue demands. Street clearing. Whatever.
>
>Troops should have been in place to come in and man these areas on Saturday.
>At the very least -- Sunday -- after the Director of the National Hurricane
>center PERSONALLY called the mayors of New Orleans and the towns along the
>Mississipi Gulf Coast, along with the moron at FEMA, advising them that from
>what they now saw, Katrina had the potential to be worse than Camille.
>
>Heck Ft. Polk is only 3 hours away, and as far as I know, NO troops from
>there have been sent to South Louisiana.
>
>So, on top of having to worry about food, water, and whether or not your
>house is livable, the people there have to worry that their belongings are
>going to be stolen out from under them in the middle of the night -- or the
>middle of the day for that matter.
>
>The night before we got into Covington, one of the neighbors at the front of
>the subdivision (an ex-Marine who is afraid of no one) was in his yard,
>picking up branches when he saw a car full of what he called "rednecks" with
>Alabama license plates drive into Riverwood. He told our neighbor that he
>didn't' even think twice. He walked right in front of them, and asked them
>who they were here to see. They mumbled something about a friend..and he
>told them to turn around and leave. After a stare-down, they backed up and
>left.
>
>That same night, our neighbors, yes, the ones who ride the riding lawn
>mowers and go to Saints football games, and who live the life that we in the
>US have come to take for granted, put together a 24/7 patrol at the front
>gate. And all of them were armed. Visibly. Shotguns, hand guns. You name it.
>
>Oh, and let's talk about Friday, and President Bush's little trip to New
>Orleans. I have good friends in the press in New Orleans, and I can tell you
>that photo ops were set up Friday to make things appear to look better than
>they really were -- both at the airport and at a "temporary feeding station"
>which, suddenly disappeared Saturday. Yes, it was put up on Friday and taken
>down on Saturday. All the activity that was shown across the country at the
>break in the levee? To show that the Feds were now "tackling the situation"?
>Saturday morning, activity came to a screeching halt.
>
>I cannot tell you what thoughts ran through my mind this morning when I
>watched with my own eyes when the fucking HEAD of Homeland Security said on
>national television that well, you know, on Tuesday and Wednesday, the
>headlines in the newspapers seemed to indicate that New Orleans had "dodged
>the bullet."
>
>I was so stunned I could hardly breathe.
>
>Do you understand the significance of this statement? The head of Homeland
>Security is keeping up on the greatest natural disaster in our lifetime by
>reading the fucking headlines?
>
>I don't know what is worse. The fact that he apparently did this. Or the
>fact that he admitted his abject stupidity on national television.
>
>As for my mother, I don't know what has happened to her at this point. She
>made it through the storm. My father had seen her. But it was 100 degree
>plus in the nursing facility (no generator) and he saw her faint twice in
>front of him. They kept telling him they were going to get AC.
>
>When we arrived at his house Friday, he told us that when he was out there
>Friday morning -- they had finally received a generator and that there was
>A/C.
>
>But, when we left my father's house and made our way carefully out to the
>nursing home Friday afternoon, we drove up to a sight that NONE of us needs
>to see. In front of Northshore Hospital, behind which is the nursing home,
>were at least five local and state police cars. Then, standing in front of
>these were various law enforcement types all heavily armed. Standing
>immediately in front of my car was a huge beefy guy in shorts with a gun the
>size of my head strapped to his thigh.
>
>A nurse came over to the car and I explained who I was and that we needed to
>see my mother. She informed me that the hospital and the home were under a
>"lock-down" and that no family or friends could enter.
>
>Okay -- here's what goes through my head. First, that something has happened
>in one of the facilities and they don't want anyone to see what has
>happened.
>
>Secondly -- I then think, well, maybe not. Maybe it's just a preventative
>measure.
>
>Third -- I wanted to see my mother.
>
>I didn't see my mother. Nor has my father seen her since then either.
>
>The nurse, who was the one who verified my suspicion that the beefy guy in
>shorts was the FBI, offered to take a note to my mother. As I figured this
>was my best alternative -- that is what I did, shaking my head at how upset
>she would be to know that we had managed to get down there and then could
>not get in.
>
>That is how we left the situation.
>
>There is no communication between here and there. My father, who lives on a
>street that has a direct electrical line into the other hospital in town,
>said that he was optimistic that his power would be on by Sunday, because of
>his "favored" position. A crew from Omaha was out there working on the
>mangled mess of wires when we were there Friday, but I really thought my
>father's estimate was way too optimistic.
>
>Since he had, until then, been able to see Mom, I knew that scorching heat
>or no heat, stinking refrigerator of bad food or not, he would probably stay
>there, hoping that electricity would come on this weekend.
>
>But -- he agreed that if he did not get electricity by Monday, he would
>drive up to Monroe. Yes, he told me he has enough gas to do so.
>
>At that point, we had to leave.
>
>This morning, I ran to Target to stock up on things I ran off without and
>have not had a chance to even think about for a week. David and I talked
>about ordering an aero bed, or whether we need to go get a mattress here in
>town. (He is sleeping on the bare floor, I am on an old mattress and box
>spring that was his mothers and which has seen better days.)
>
>When I returned, he told me that my father had called from a neighbor who
>apparently has phone service. He was distraught. He had not been able to see
>my mother at all for the last two days, and today, they informed him that
>she was no longer there. But they could not tell him where she was. Well, I
>can only imagine how that went over with him. Finally, apparently, they tell
>him that she was taken to Opelousas. (Sits about halfway in the middle of
>LA.)
>
>Why was she taken there? Is there something wrong with her? They wouldn't
>tell him. They DID NOT EVEN KNOW WHERE SHE WAS. They can't tell him if she
>is in a shelter, in a nursing home. NOTHING.
>
>Thankfully, he just called again about a half an hour ago. They finally
>determined where she had been taken -- and so now he is off tomorrow to find
>her -- and then drive up here.
>
>Meanwhile, let's talk again about FEMA.
>
>Why is it that the Federal government has not done ANYTHING to alleviate the
>gasoline shortage here? Trucks cannot get in with supplies, people are
>running out of gasoline on the Interstate, we are now having difficulty
>getting any gas here in Monroe. Supply and relief efforts are being
>seriously hampered by a lack of gasoline.
>
>But I don't read about this in the New York Times.
>
>The Federal government could easily do any number of things to put more gas
>in this part of the country. You all are bright people. You can, I'm sure,
>figure out why they are not. Then again, maybe they are waiting for the New
>York Times to write about it, before they figure out it is a problem.
>
>Meanwhile, the gas situation here in all of Mississippi and Louisiana is
>very, very, dire.
>
>I agree with a suggestion Sunday morning that was sent to me from a friend
>of mine about what Bush *should* have done Wednesday that would have shown
>true leadership. I can send you transcripts of comments made by that
>worthless piece of shit who is head of FEMA about how 'conditions were
>improving" and how the levee situation was "under control" on Wednesday. I
>can tell you about verified reports I have from friends in the media about
>how FEMA told rescuers to stop going out in boats to rescue people, about
>how shipments from Wal-Mart were blocked by FEMA, about how ....it just goes
>on and on.
>
>For those of you who saw "Meet the Press" this morning -- the interview with
>Aaron Broussard, the President of Jefferson Parish was too much to watch.
>Especially, juxtaposed as it was, with a video of Michael Chertoff's (AKA
>the worthless head of Homeland Security) comments about how he had just not
>been aware of how bad things were in New Orleans -- because the headlines
>Wednesday had indicated the city was fine.
>
>To add salt to the wounds? He could not even pronounce "New Orleans"
>properly. He said, "New Orleeeans." What a complete and total idiot.
>
>Our status here? I've got to get some things together for my dad's arrival.
>We have no place to put him now, but our next-door neighbor here has offered
>the use of a bed they are not using. David left two hours ago to get
>gasoline and I have yet to see him return -- he is going to try and return
>to Covington tomorrow if he can get gas. Why? Because he feels a duty to go
>down and help. Be it by cutting down crap in the neighborhood, helping
>patrol the neighborhood, by taking gas so those with generators will have
>some more power, taking down ice. Whatever.
>
>Oh, and then there is the garage full of my beloved plants. I saved two
>Friday from the 100 plus degree heat in there, taking them inside for much
>needed water. Hopefully if he goes down Monday he can drag out the rest and
>water them. Maybe some will survive. Tomatoes? Sickening sight. The fall
>crop of tomatoes was just starting to come online. We had lots of tomatoes
>just starting to get ripe. We had to rip out the plants last Sunday morning,
>because we had to dismantle the trellis system before we left.
>
>I think he plans on staying there tomorrow night.
>..........


A


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: pdq
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 09:01 PM

Somewhat earlier it was claimed that land owners have more power than those who do not own land. I looked it up and 70.1% of the people in Lousiana are land owners. Actually a bit above the national average. This bodes well for the future of the state even if New Orleans does not fully recover.

As far as responsibility for self-preservation goes, the individual is always number one. Nobody else can put you on a bus out if you choose not to go.

Second priority is the city government. They should have had contingency plans for fire, flood, hurricane, and any other disasters, natural or man-made. Every church or school bus should have been accounted for, and drivers have been available on short notice. Exact exit routes should have been mapped and destinations planned for.

Third priority is the state government. Technically, the US government must be asked by a given state to supply help. There is a formal legal procedure that must be followed. This is where the New Orleans disaster really begin to show incompetence. Governor Blanco had no clue what to ask for and she still doesn't.

Fourth is the US government, which must only do what it is asked to do in this type of emergency. They are not responsible for making contingency plans for each type of disaster in each state. They never have, never will, and never should.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Peace
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 10:52 PM

"Fourth is the US government, which must only do what it is asked to do in this type of emergency. They are not responsible for making contingency plans for each type of disaster in each state. They never have, never will, and never should."

Makes it hard to explain FEMA and Homeland Security, then. (Not trying to pick an argument.)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: pdq
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 11:16 PM

Until you know exactly what help Gov. Blanco asked for, you are only guessing. Bush is not the problem. He is not a cowboy heading a posse bent on slaying the guys with black hats. There are rules set up to protect the states from federal government abuse. If Ms. Blanco made spit-wads in civics class, she should have made up for it by studying same after being elected governor. The mess is largely her doing and she should resign as soon as the New Orleans mess is cleaned up.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Peace
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 11:19 PM

Bush is not the problem. Bush is never the problem, is he?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Peace
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 11:21 PM

True that the Governor should have asked for help from the Feds. Happened in the 'Civil Rights Era' if I recall. However, Bush IS your national leader, and he ain't been doing too much of that lately.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: pdq
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 11:25 PM

With you and several others on Mudcat, he is always the problem, and the only problem. I guess that makes life easy. Really, as you said, not trying to pick a fight. How about some open-mindedness on the part of the Bush-bash crowd. There is plenty of blame to go around, if that is the goal.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Peace
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 11:29 PM

"Despite the sheer magnitude of the disaster, homeland security expert Daniel Prieto said the federal government has to be prepared to pick up the slack when the private sector and state and local officials can't.

"The federal government is the protector of last resort. Dispassionately, that is where responsibility lies," said Prieto, research director for the homeland security partnership at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government.

"I think this really points out how far we have to go, even after 9/11, even though there was knowledge of this storm coming," Prieto said."

Do you think Bush acted well in all this, PDQ? Did he act the way you think he should have?

I do not always 'bash' Bush as you put it. But then, I know you don't always support him, right?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Peace
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 11:37 PM

Federal Emergency Management Agency
Mission:

The Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) provides leadership and support to reduce the loss of life and property and to protect our institutions from all types of hazards through a comprehensive, risk-based, all-hazards emergency management program of mitigation, preparedness, response, and recovery.

Activities:


Provide continuing financial and technical assistance to State and local governments for natural hazard reduction activities.
Provide post-event grants to State and local governments, after presidentially-declared disasters, for identification of hazards and risks and implementation of hazard mitigation measures.
Prepare and disseminate information on hazard-resistant building codes and practices.
Prepare and execute training, education, and public awareness programs in natural hazard reduction.
Plan and coordinate activities of the National Earthquake Hazards Reduction Program and National Hurricane Program.
Coordinate and lead a Unified National Program for floodplain management.
Administer the National Flood Insurance Program, including hazard identification, risk assessment, implementation of loss reduction measures, and the provision of flood insurance.
Develop and coordinate the execution of federal response and recovery plans for disasters.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: pdq
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 11:46 PM

Nice post, Bruce. I had not yet seen a mission statement from FEMA. You still miss the point. The state must ask for help and have detailed contingency plans for each type of disaster. The governor of Louisiana thinks that getting elected is an end in itself. Performance in office is not the goal with people like her.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Peace
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 11:47 PM

Government of Canada's response to Hurricane Katrina
Fact Sheet

On August 28, a travel advisory was issued by Foreign Affairs Canada warning Canadians against all travel to the North Central Gulf Coast from Morgan City, Louisiana, eastward to the Alabama/Florida border, including the City of New Orleans and Lake Pontchartrain.
Foreign Affairs Canada also contacted Canadians in the area and provided consular assistance and guidance as needed. Canadians seeking emergency consular assistance in the area should contact the Emergency Operations Centre in Ottawa toll-free at 1 888 949-9993 or call collect (613) 996-8885. Canadians with good reason to believe that Canadian relatives are in the affected areas may contact the Emergency Operations Centre at 1 800 387-3124; (613) 943-1055 in Ottawa; or by e-mail at sos@international.gc.ca.
On August 29, the Deputy Prime Minister contacted U.S. Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff to express Canada's condolences and offer assistance in support of U.S. disaster relief efforts. The Prime Minister also subsequently released a similar statement, reinforcing Canada 's support.
The Government Operations Centre also went to a higher level of activation in anticipation of a possible request for assistance from U.S. officials.
On August 30, the Public Health Agency of Canada contacted its counterparts at the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services to offer assistance such as emergency medical supplies in the National Emergency Stockpile System.
On the same day, Consuls General in Atlanta and Texas spoke to the relevant governors to express Canada's support and concern for all those in the affected areas. The Consuls also spoke with the mayors of the affected cities and the heads of those emergency services operating in the disaster zones, reiterating Canada's offer of help.

To date, the U.S. federal government has made no requests for Canadian federal assistance; however, the Government of Canada stands ready to provide assistance if needed.

The International Energy Agency (IEA) member countries have been asked to support the supply shortages in the United States. Canada, as a member country, will be contributing 91,000 barrels of crude oil per day which can be met from existing supply.
American federal and state agencies and other organisations have been mobilised and are currently carrying out a full needs assessment in order to provide a comprehensive response to Hurricane Katrina.
Once U.S. resources are in place, the U.S. government will be in a better position to identify what kind of assistance, if any, they may require.
PSEPC is coordinating federal assistance efforts with the provinces and territories in the event that a formal request is made from the U.S. More than 30 federal departments are involved in these efforts, and PSEPC also has a liaison officer posted directly at DHS in Washington DC to ensure that the most up-to-date information is available.
PSEPC convened a conference call on August 31st with provincial and territorial counterparts to review and coordinate potential contributions to assist in disaster relief efforts. Under a joint memorandum of understanding between Canada and the U.S., assistance is to be coordinated between PSEPC and DHS.
On August 31st, General Rick Hillier, Chief of the Defence Staff (Canadian Forces), spoke to spoke his American counterpart, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Richard (Dick) B. Myers, and the U.S. Commander of Northern Command, Admiral Tim Keating. General Hillier indicated that wherever there was a need, they had only to ask and the Canadian Forces would have it rolling, sailing or flying south to stand side-by-side with Americans to bring relief or provide respite – and for however long efforts are required.
Our federal government officials have also talked with the Canadian Red Cross and Salvation Army to discuss their efforts and how we can support their initiatives.
The Government Operations Centre is continuing to closely monitor the situation and is maintaining regular contact with DHS/FEMA.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Peace
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 11:52 PM

I am aware of that, pdq. I do know that Governors must ask for federal assistance--that the feds can't just march in. When Greyhound's stations (specifically washrooms) had to be 'desegrated' (the old HIS, HERS, OTHER designations had to go), it was not because the Constitution was being violated, but rather because Greyhound crossed State lines, thus making it fall under federal authority.

I would like to know when the Louisiana governor asked for federal help. I will go look.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Peace
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 11:54 PM

Request here. Dated August 27, 2005.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 02:13 AM

Third priority is the state government. Technically, the US government must be asked by a given state to supply help. There is a formal legal procedure that must be followed. This is where the New Orleans disaster really begin to show incompetence. Governor Blanco had no clue what to ask for and she still doesn't.

And it also shows where the incompetence of the Federal government was in this case, because anyone with any sense at all and who knows the procedure could have told Governor Blanco what she needed to know in terms of what the procedure was.

Just how totally irresponsible does a government official have to be to say, "You didn't ask me correctly, so I'm not going to help you. And I'm not going to tell you how to ask correctly either. If you don't know, it's your tough luck".

Criminally irresponsible, I'd say.

All they had to do was to tell her the correct procedure if she didn't know it. PEOPLE'S LIVES WERE AT STAKE!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 02:19 AM

Peace's link seems to make it clear help was asked for very early but I'm curious over some of this.

In Bush, we have a man who is quite free to appoint himself judge, jury and excetutioner over the rest of the world, a person who can start ilegal wars based on lies, can decide who is or isn't patriotic in his own country, etc.

But if there is an emergency in his own country, he would be forced to sit down watching reports on tv as a situation worsened over days, powerless to act until asked to do so?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 07:24 AM

It might not be the job of your federal government to organise regional and local plans for responding to emergencies, but it sure as hell is its responsibility to make sure those plans exist and are adequate.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Azizi
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 07:34 AM

Are people planning a New Orleans land grab??

How will people who are displaced by the hurricane prove that they own their property???

Here's a comment from dailykos about that:

"...I'm imagining that some people are going to find themselves in the position of having nothing but their word and maybe the word of some witnesses to atest to the ownership of homes and property that might have been in the family for multiple generations. Lacking fingerprints on file somewhere, how will many people even prove who they are? And then there are the children newly bereaved who are too young to look after their own interests and might not even clearly know what their interests are.

It seems cold to be worried about the property rights when people are still waiting to be rescued, but I don't want to see people already displaced by a hurricane then dispossessed by a perfect storm of bank and developement interests.

by martianchronic on Sun Sep 4th, 2005"

-snip-

Read more
HERE on that topic. That link leads to a dailykos diary that provides an account of how California Congresswoman Maxine Waters and others took it upon themselves to rescue 150 New Orleans "refugees" and transport them to an empty Louisiana shelter that had been waiting 2 days [!!] for people from New Orleans and surrounding communities.

Maxine Waters-a remarkable woman!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 08:40 AM

If one ever calls Bush to task - they are said to be engaged in Bush bashing.

If the buck does not stop there, if the Presidency is not a symbol of respondsibility - WHO is?

Deflecting respondsibility is the administration's best and only game plan when it comes to post incident plans.

Here is my latest edited contribution of counter-propoganda on the subject:

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/attic2.jpg


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: pdq
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 04:40 PM

...from the 04 Sep 05 - 11:54 post (link) dealing with Ms. Blanco's request to the president for help:

"In response to the situation I have taken appropriate action under State law and directed the execution of the State Emergency Plan on August 26, 2005 in accordance with Section 501 (a) of the Stafford Act. A State of Emergency has been issued for the State in order to support the evacuations of the coastal areas in accordance with our State Evacuation Plan and the remainder of the state to support the State Special Needs and Sheltering Plan."

Please read the entire request.

Also note, once again, the emergency plans are generated and controlled by state emergency agencies. The feds help where they are asked to help but they do not, buy law, have the authority to run the show.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 04:46 PM

The poorest of the poor, who haven't been mentioned at all--there will be an aftermath for them also.

Cason Announces Initial BIA Response to Aid Tribal Victims of Hurricane Katrina
link

WASHINGTON – Interior Associate Deputy Secretary James E. Cason announced today that the Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA) has undertaken its initial response to assisting tribes in the Gulf Coast states who are victims of Hurricane Katrina. There are six federally recognized tribes located in Alabama, Louisiana and Mississippi who were impacted by the powerful storm. "Our hearts and prayers go out to the victims of this devastating event and their families," Cason said. "The Bureau of Indian Affairs, along with other Interior Department agencies, is working directly with affected tribal communities in assessing and responding to their public safety, emergency access and emergency services needs."

The affected communities belong to the Poarch Creek Band in Alabama, the Chitimacha Tribe, Coushatta Indian Tribe, Jena Band of Choctaw and Tunica-Biloxi Tribe in Louisiana, and the Mississippi Band of Choctaw Indians in Mississippi. While all of the tribes were left with varying degrees of wind and rain damage, the Choctaws' tribal government offices in Philadelphia, Miss., and several, largely rural communities lay directly in the storm's path resulting in extensive physical damage and loss of telephone service and power.

The BIA's Eastern Regional Office, headquartered in Nashville, Tenn., and Choctaw Agency in Philadelphia are coordinating their recovery efforts with the Mississippi Choctaw tribal government, which include arranging for fresh water to be trucked in from Arkansas, utilizing agency road equipment to help clear debris from roadways, exploring ways to bring in supplies of ice, fuel and food, and assigning law enforcement personnel to protect lives and property.

The BIA Office of Law Enforcement Services (OLES) personnel arrived at the Choctaw reservation shortly after midnight on Tuesday with a Mobile Command Vehicle and Emergency Response Task Force (ERT) to assist Choctaw police with their recovery efforts. Downed trees and power lines impeded their ability to reach the reservation quickly.

The Bureau also is evaluating requests from the affected tribes for financial assistance to help with their recovery efforts. For example, the Chitimacha Tribe is caring for upwards of 400 tribal members who had been living in New Orleans and are now homeless.

"The BIA is committed to helping these communities get back on their feet," Cason said. "We will continue to do all we can to meet that goal."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Peace
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 04:58 PM

I get the impression that some people think Bush has behaved appropriately during all this. Would it be appropriate to request a show of hands?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Sorcha
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 05:02 PM

Thumbs down.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 05:02 PM

Read the entire request yourself, pdq. The reason the Governor listed the kinds of emergency responses that the state was providing was so that, under law, she could show that the state was doing everthing it could, and that that was not enough, and that they needed further help from the federal government. Here's the part where she requested that help...


"Pursuant to 44 CFR � 206.35, I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster. I am specifically requesting emergency protective measures, direct Federal Assistance, Individual and Household Program (IHP) assistance, Special Needs Program assistance, and debris removal."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: pdq
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 05:13 PM

...again, "Federal assistance", not "Federal takeover".

The Feds may be able to take over control of the situation if martial law is declared, but otherwise, the control center is the governor's office in the State of Louisiana. Ms.Blanco and her emergency disaster coordinator were given all the tools they needed to do the best job possible, albeit under difficult circumstances. Most Mudcatters feel a failure has occurred. Why don't some of you demand that she resign?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 05:27 PM

Clearly they didn't have all the resources they needed. That's why they requested assistance from the Federal government. And it wouldn't have been necessary for the Feds to "take over" in order for them to have made an enormous difference. They could have provided all kinds of support without taking control. They did not do so. In fact, they provided no assistance whatever, and they even made the situation worse by turning away much needed supplies like water and fuel, cutting the communications lines of the local emergency people, and turning away volunteers from other places who had come to the area to help.

And it does merit pointing out that about a third of the local National Guard, along with its equipment, is currently in Iraq. The local National Guard was being stretched to its limits as it was.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 05:30 PM

And the reason I don't request that she resign is because I live in Alabama. So if we get a major disaster here where I live, it's not the governor of Louisiana who will determine the outcome. But it's entirely possible that FEMA will. And that prospect scares me quite a lot.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: pdq
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 05:50 PM

Ms. Blanco and her director of disaster emergency had all the tools they needed because those tools INCLUDED all of the resources of our federal government. Is that so hard to understand?

The National Guard is never fully deployed to one area. They must have a reasonable number of soldiers to cover additional emergencies. There is not one shred of evidence that having some Guardsmen in Iraq had any affect on the deployment in New Orleans. Troops from California or Maine can be in Louisiana in a matter of hours if that is what the state requests.

Ms. Blanco also made an idiotic statement that "National Guard should thke over the job of shooting looters so that our police can get on with the job of feeding and rescuing citizens". What crap! I was a member of the National Guard in the early 1970's and nobody joined to shoot American citizens! In this type of emergency, a few selected and specially trained soldiers may be issued bullets, and these people may be required to shoot people who shoot at their fellow Guardsmen, most of whom are not armed or are not issued bullets.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Peace
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 05:55 PM

pdq, is it your position then that the feds have nothing to do with all this? No responsibility whatsoever? That none of this is Bush's business?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 06:06 PM

Ms. Blanco and her director of disaster emergency had all the tools they needed because those tools INCLUDED all of the resources of our federal government. Is that so hard to understand?

Well, they were supposed to include all of the resources of the federal government, but those resources were not forthcoming, so while they were availble, de jure, they were not de facto available. They were "available" in name only. And this is where the federal government fell down. They didn't provide the assistance that they were obligated to provide. That's why I'm criticizing the federal government on this one.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: pdq
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 09:37 PM

A bit more about Ms. Blanco's also idiotic statement that "National Guard should take over the job of shooting looters so that our police can get on with the job of feeding and rescuing citizens"

Apparently, fully 1/3 of all the New Orleans police have "gone missing". Seems like they are happy to draw a large salary for writing parking tickets and such, but have no intentions of putting themselves in harm's way during the anarchy. Not interested in pulling dead bodies out of trees or guarding medical convoys.

Can some of you figure a way to blame this on Bush? Probably.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 10:49 PM

You don't win any points for your man Bush by making idiotic comments like those, pdq.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Peace
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 11:14 PM

I read a few hours back that the 1/3 missing is not true.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Peace
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 11:30 PM

However, that could be wrong.

"New Orleans Police Department Deputy Chief Warren Riley said only about 1,000 of the force's 1,641 officers were accounted for."

From here.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: pdq
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 12:01 PM

Thanks, brewster. Using your numbers, 39% of New Orleans cops skipped out and left the city defenseless.

Want to guess what percent of National Guardsmen failed to show up for their assignment. Usually it is less than 1%.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Peace
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 02:01 PM

Well, because about 40% are in Iraq . . . . *grin*.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: pdq
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 02:05 PM

100th. *grin*


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Peace
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 02:07 PM

LOL--bugger!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 02:12 PM

Many of those police officers had missing family whom they knew were not getting the help they needed. Maybe they didn't want to end up like that man from Jefferson Parrish who will have to live the rest of his life knowing that he allowed his mother to drown while telling her every day that help was on the way, because he was busy doing the job that the federal government was supposed to be doing, instead of saving his mother's life.

And you don't know how long those first responders worked their asses off with no outside help before they quit. And that's what makes you comments idiotic.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Peace
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 02:28 PM

Sustained adrenaline and work, sweat and tension is brutal. I was in tears thinking about the firefighters who were dealing with chemical plants and trying to control those fires. Six hours will drop the strongest guy or gal. They were at it for days. If you get the chance when the immediate emergency is over, speak with the front-line people: medics, SAR folks, cops. The aftermath of disaster is REALLY hard to deal with. One beat up and dead child is tough to see. Scores is a nightmare--and the nightmare doesn't go away when ya wake up. First responders often become victims of the tragedies after the disaster is over. I understand that a few cops and firefighters killed themselves as a result of trying to do the job and having no support, no help, no hope that help was coming. I don't like it, but I do understand. There will be lots of folks who will need critical incident stress debriefing, and lots of others who will need psychiatric help. Post traumatic stress disorder--it's not only war vets who get it. In fact, if any vets are presently in the disaster zone they are likely reliving scenes they went through before. They'll get the job done, but the nation will owe them all not only its gratitude, but also its help. I hope they are not forgotten when Bush scrambles to offload responsibility and FEMA looks for scapegoats.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Azizi
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 02:36 PM

And apart from the lives that could have been saved, the failure to help those New Orleans first responders is another reasons why it is so criminal that it has been widely reported that for some time FEMA not only didn't accept offers of help from American and international teams who are trained but also actually turned trained volunteers away.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Azizi
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 02:39 PM

To any English teachers out there- I caught my error.

Correction-the criminality is not the wide reporting but what it is reported that FEMA did.

also "reason" and not "reasons"


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 02:48 PM

Two of those police officers committed suicide. I can only imagine what drove them to do that. I am eternally grateful that I didn't have to experience what they did, first hand.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 06:36 PM

Would death count as a valid reason for not turning up to work?
...................................................

I think maybe Bush should have a new sign to put on his desk. Instead of Truman's "The buck stops here" it would say "Passing the buck starts here". They could call it "The Bush Doctrine"...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 08:17 PM

Saw a TV shot of some red neck dickhead with a badge and a gun who called those who left (not knowing whether they had suicided) cowards and that if he saw them again he would shoot them on sight.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 08:28 PM

I was referring to Police.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Peace
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 09:07 PM

Truth is that sometimes people 'break'. I have seen brave men and women crying/shaking because a situation is beyond their ability or the ability of the resources available to them. I have held some of these folks, and some of themn have held me. Shit happens.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 09:24 PM

In June of 1944, Dwight Eisenhower wrote a speech (that he luckily never had to use) that said "Our landings have failed and I have withdrawn the troops. My decision to attack at this time and place was based on the best information available. The troops, the air and the Navy did all that bravery could do. If any blame or fault attaches to the attempt it is mine alone."

Following the Bay of Pigs disaster in 1961, John Kennedy publicly stated at a press conference "I made a mistake."

When 241 marines were killed in a truck bombing in Lebanon in 1983, Ronald Reagan said "If there is to be blame, it properly rests here in this office and with this president."

When eight soldiers died attempting to rescue the hostages in Iran in 1980, Jimmy Carter said "It was my decision to attempt the rescue operation. It was my decision to cancel it when problems developed. The responsibility is fully my own."

Although (in my opinion) it should have been between him and his immediate family, in 1998, Bill Clinton apologized to the nation for his sexual infidelity saying "It constituted a critical lapse in judgment and a personal failure on my part for which I am solely and completely responsible."

Now, have you ever heard anything like this from George W.Bush? Can you even imagine him saying it? Through Enron (et al.) scams, 9/11 lapses, misinformation about WMD in Iraq, the looting of Baghdad, torture at Abu Ghraib, the leak from his office of a covert CIA operative's identity, and now the pitiful federal response to the aftermath of hurricane Katrina, he finds NOTHING that is his responsibility? It was all someone else's fault? (BTW the excuse for the above, in order, are: "it's not the government's business", "who could have guessed they'd fly airplanes into buildings", "everyone else was wrong too", "sh*t happens", "it was a few loose cannons", "no crime has been proven", and "who could have guessed the levees would break"). Come on Bush people. Is it really ALWAYS someone else's fault? None of these involve any mistakes by George W. Bush? If your kids fed you these lines, would you believe THEM? If you had an employee minding your store and incidents constantly happened on their watch, but they had a good excuse every time, would you keep them on?

The quotes at the top are from real presidents. What we have now is a petulant, insecure, self-centered man-child. God help the USA.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Peace
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 09:27 PM

GUEST,TIA: That is a great post.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: pdq
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 10:23 PM

CarolC, brewster's post states:

"New Orleans Police Department Deputy Chief Warren Riley said only about 1,000 of the force's 1,641 officers were accounted for."

Do you think two police officers who were known to have committed suicide should be considered "unaccounted for"?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Amos
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 10:46 PM

Aaron Broussard, president of Jefferson Parish in New Orleans, was on
NBC's Meet the Press on Sunday, September 4, 2005. He gave a scathing
assessment of how our government has failed us in the wake of
Hurricane Katrina. But most notably, I was moved by his personal
story of how someone's mother was trapped in a nursing home and
subsequently died:

"The guy who runs this building I'm in, emergency management, he's
responsible for everything. His mother was trapped in St. Bernard
nursing home and every day she called him and said, 'Are you coming,
son? Is somebody coming?' And he said, 'Yeah, Mama, somebody's
coming to get you. Somebody's coming to get you on Tuesday.
Somebody's coming to get you on Wednesday. Somebody's coming to get
you on Thursday. Somebody's coming to get you on Friday.' And she
drowned Friday night. She drowned Friday night." -- Jefferson Parish
President Broussard

Video clip: http://www.crooksandliars.com/2005/09/04.html#a4783

Full Meet the Press transcript (Broussard's comments appear about
halfway down): http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9179790/


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Amos
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 11:00 PM

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/9/6/132725/8931

Hurricane Katrina-Our Experiences Larry Bradshaw, Lorrie Beth Slonsky

Two days after Hurricane Katrina struck New Orleans, the Walgreen's   store at the corner of Royal and Iberville streets remained locked. The dairy   display case was clearly visible through the widows. It was now 48 hours without electricity, running water, plumbing. The milk, yogurt, and cheeses were beginning to spoil in the 90-degree heat. The owners and managers had locked up the food, water, pampers, and prescriptions and fled the City. Outside Walgreen's windows, residents and tourists grew increasingly thirsty and hungry.

The much-promised federal, state and local aid never materialized and   the windows at Walgreen's gave way to the looters. There was an   alternative. The cops could have broken one small window and distributed the nuts, fruit juices, and bottle water in an organized and systematic manner. But they did   not.

Instead they spent hours playing cat and mouse, temporarily chasing   away the looters.

We were finally airlifted out of New Orleans two days ago and arrived   home yesterday (Saturday). We have yet to see any of the TV coverage or   look at a newspaper. We are willing to guess that there were no video images or front-page pictures of European or affluent white tourists looting the Walgreen's in the French Quarter.

We also suspect the media will have been inundated with "hero" images   of the National Guard, the troops and the police struggling to help the   "victims" of the Hurricane. What you will not see, but what we witnessed,were the   real heroes and sheroes of the hurricane relief effort: the working class   of New Orleans. The maintenance workers who used a fork lift to carry the   sick and disabled. The engineers, who rigged, nurtured and kept the generators   running. The electricians who improvised thick extension cords stretching over   blocks to share the little electricity we had in order to free cars stuck on   rooftop parking lots. Nurses who took over for mechanical ventilators and   spent many hours on end manually forcing air into the lungs of unconscious   patients to keep them alive. Doormen who rescued folks stuck in elevators.   Refinery workers who broke into boat yards, "stealing" boats to rescue their neighbors   clinging to their roofs in flood waters. Mechanics who helped hot-wire any car   that could be found to ferry people out of the City. And the food service   workers who scoured the commercial kitchens improvising communal meals for   hundreds of those stranded.
Most of these workers had lost their homes, and had not heard from   members of their families, yet they stayed and provided the only infrastructure   for the 20% of New Orleans that was not under water.

On Day 2, there were approximately 500 of us left in the hotels in   the French Quarter. We were a mix of foreign tourists, conference attendees like ourselves, and locals who had checked into hotels for safety and   shelter from Katrina. Some of us had cell phone contact with family and friends   outside of New Orleans. We were repeatedly told that all sorts of resources   including the National Guard and scores of buses were pouring in to the City. The   buses and the other resources must have been invisible because none of us had   seen them. We decided we had to save ourselves. So we pooled our money and came   up with $25,000 to have ten buses come and take us out of the City. Those who   did not have the requisite $45.00 for a ticket were subsidized by those who   did have extra money. We waited for 48 hours for the buses, spending the last   12 hours standing outside, sharing the limited water, food, and clothes we   had. We created a priority boarding area for the sick, elderly and new born   babies. We waited late into the night for the "imminent" arrival of the buses.   The buses never arrived. We later learned that the minute the arrived to the   City limits, they were commandeered by the military.

By day 4 our hotels had run out of fuel and water. Sanitation was   dangerously abysmal. As the desperation and despair increased, street crime as   well as water levels began to rise. The hotels turned us out and locked their   doors, telling us that the "officials" told us to report to the convention   center to wait for more buses. As we entered the center of the City, we finally encountered the National Guard. The Guards told us we would not be   allowed into the Superdome as the City's primary shelter had descended into a   humanitarian and health hellhole. The guards further told us that the City's only   other shelter, the Convention Center, was also descending into chaos and   squalor and that the police were not allowing anyone else in. Quite naturally, we   asked, "If we can't go to the only 2 shelters in the City, what was our   alternative?" The guards told us that that was our problem, and no they did not   have extra water to give to us.

This would be the start of our numerous   encounters with callous and hostile "law enforcement".
We walked to the police command center at Harrah's on Canal Street   and were told the same thing, that we were on our own, and no they did not   have water to give us. We now numbered several hundred. We held a mass meeting to   decide a course of action. We agreed to camp outside the police command post.   We would be plainly visible to the media and would constitute a highly visible embarrassment to the City officials. The police told us that we could   not stay. Regardless, we began to settle in and set up camp. In short order,   the police commander came across the street to address our group. He told us he   had a solution: we should walk to the Pontchartrain Expressway and cross   the greater New Orleans Bridge where the police had buses lined up to take us out   of the City. The crowed cheered and began to move. We called everyone back and explained to the commander that there had been lots of misinformation   and wrong information and was he sure that there were buses waiting for us. The   commander turned to the crowd and stated emphatically, "I swear to you that the   buses are there."

We organized ourselves and the 200 of us set off for the bridge with   great excitement and hope. As we marched pasted the convention center, many   locals saw our determined and optimistic group and asked where we were   headed. We told them about the great news. Families immediately grabbed their few   belongings and quickly our numbers doubled and then doubled again. Babies in   strollers now joined us, people using crutches, elderly clasping walkers and others   people in wheelchairs. We marched the 2-3 miles to the freeway and up the steep   incline to the Bridge. It now began to pour down rain, but it did not dampen our enthusiasm. As we approached the bridge, armed Gretna sheriffs formed a line   across the foot of the bridge. Before we were close enough to speak, they began firing their weapons over our heads. This sent the crowd fleeing in   various directions. As the crowd scattered and dissipated, a few of us inched   forward and managed to engage some of the sheriffs in conversation. We told   them of our conversation with the police commander and of the commander's   assurances. The sheriffs informed us there were no buses waiting. The commander had   lied to us to get us to move.

We questioned why we couldn't cross the bridge anyway, especially as   there was little traffic on the 6-lane highway. They responded that the West   Bank was not going to become New Orleans and there would be no Superdomes in their   City. These were code words for if you are poor and black, you are not   crossing the Mississippi River and you were not getting out of New Orleans. Our small group retreated back down Highway 90 to seek shelter from   the rain under an overpass. We debated our options and in the end decided to   build an encampment in the middle of the Ponchartrain Expressway on the center   divide, between the O'Keefe and Tchoupitoulas exits. We reasoned we would be   visible to everyone, we would have some security being on an elevated freeway   and we could wait and watch for the arrival of the yet to be seen buses. All day long, we saw other families, individuals and groups make the   same trip up the incline in an attempt to cross the bridge, only to be turned   away. Some chased away with gunfire, others simply told no, others to be   verbally berated and humiliated. Thousands of New Orleaners were prevented and   prohibited from self-evacuating the City on foot. Meanwhile, the only two City   shelters sank further into squalor and disrepair. The only way across the bridge   was by vehicle. We saw workers stealing trucks, buses, moving vans, semi- trucks and any car that could be hotwired. All were packed with people trying to   escape the misery New Orleans had become.

Our little encampment began to blossom. Someone stole a water   delivery truck and brought it up to us. Let's hear it for looting! A mile or so down   the freeway, an army truck lost a couple of pallets of C-rations on a   tight turn. We ferried the food back to our camp in shopping carts. Now secure   with the two necessities, food and water; cooperation, community, and creativity   flowered. We organized a clean up and hung garbage bags from the rebar poles.   We made beds from wood pallets and cardboard. We designated a storm drain as the bathroom and the kids built an elaborate enclosure for privacy out of   plastic, broken umbrellas, and other scraps. We even organized a food   recycling system where individuals could swap out parts of C-rations (applesauce for   babies and candies for kids!).

This was a process we saw repeatedly in the aftermath of Katrina. When individuals had to fight to find food or water, it meant looking out for yourself only. You had to do whatever it took to find water for your   kids or food for your parents. When these basic needs were met, people began   to look out for each other, working together and constructing a community. If the relief organizations had saturated the City with food and   water in the first 2 or 3 days, the desperation, the frustration and the ugliness   would not have set in.

Flush with the necessities, we offered food and water to passing   families and individuals. Many decided to stay and join us. Our encampment grew to   80 or 90 people.

From a woman with a battery powered radio we learned that the media   was talking about us. Up in full view on the freeway, every relief and news   organizations saw us on their way into the City. Officials were being asked what   they were going to do about all those families living up on the freeway? The   officials responded they were going to take care of us. Some of us got a   sinking feeling. "Taking care of us" had an ominous tone to it. Unfortunately, our sinking feeling (along with the sinking City) was   correct. Just as dusk set in, a Gretna Sheriff showed up, jumped out of his   patrol vehicle, aimed his gun at our faces, screaming, "Get off the fucking   freeway". A helicopter arrived and used the wind from its blades to blow away   our flimsy structures. As we retreated, the sheriff loaded up his truck with our   food and water.

Once again, at gunpoint, we were forced off the freeway. All the law enforcement agencies appeared threatened when we congregated or   congealed into groups of 20 or more. In every congregation of "victims" they saw   "mob" or "riot". We felt safety in numbers. Our "we must stay together" was   impossible because the agencies would force us into small atomized groups. In the pandemonium of having our camp raided and destroyed, we   scattered once again. Reduced to a small group of 8 people, in the dark, we sought   refuge in an abandoned school bus, under the freeway on Cilo Street. We were   hiding from possible criminal elements but equally and definitely, we were hiding   from the police and sheriffs with their martial law, curfew and shoot-to-kill   policies.

The next days, our group of 8 walked most of the day, made contact   with New Orleans Fire Department and were eventually airlifted out by an urban   search and rescue team. We were dropped off near the airport and managed to   catch a ride with the National Guard. The two young guardsmen apologized for the limited response of the Louisiana guards. They explained that a large   section of their unit was in Iraq and that meant they were shorthanded and   were unable to complete all the tasks they were assigned. We arrived at the airport on the day a massive airlift had begun. The   airport had become another Superdome. We 8 were caught in a press of humanity as flights were delayed for several hours while George Bush landed   briefly at the airport for a photo op. After being evacuated on a coast guard cargo   plane, we arrived in San Antonio, Texas.

There the humiliation and dehumanization of the official relief effort continued. We were placed on buses and driven to a large field where   we were forced to sit for hours and hours. Some of the buses did not have air-conditioners. In the dark, hundreds if us were forced to share   two filthy overflowing porta-potties. Those who managed to make it out with any possessions (often a few belongings in tattered plastic bags) we were   subjected to two different dog-sniffing searches.

Most of us had not eaten all day because our C-rations had been   confiscated at the airport because the rations set off the metal detectors. Yet, no   food had been provided to the men, women, children, elderly, disabled as they   sat for hours waiting to be "medically screened" to make sure we were not   carrying any communicable diseases.

This official treatment was in sharp contrast to the warm, heart-felt   reception given to us by the ordinary Texans. We saw one airline worker give   her shoes to someone who was barefoot. Strangers on the street offered us money and toiletries with words of welcome. Throughout, the official relief   effort was callous, inept, and racist. There was more suffering than need be.   Lives were lost that did not need to be lost.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 11:01 PM

clicky to the clip to which Amos refers

Again - listen and your heart will tell you who is speaking truth.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 11:16 PM

Do you think two police officers who were known to have committed suicide should be considered "unaccounted for"?

No, and I never suggested that they should. But the fact that they committed suicide ought to give you some idea of the kind of stress the first responders were under. And with no outside support.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Wolfgang
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 09:52 AM

Viewed from outside, the lack of quick (re)action was very surprising. A disaster of a similar dimension would have been handled differently over here (one difference of course: a train can carry more than 2,000 people at a time).

in my perception, the blame of incompetence and unpreparedness rests on all levels of government. A governor of a state that is know to be vulnerable by natural disasters has to be prepared to know what and how to do in such a situation. At least one of her staff has to have the knowledge. If she has to be told what to do she is a failure. As McGrath has said either here or in another thread, preparation and planning has to start much more early than 24 hours before a hurricane.

I have not the slightest idea whether governor Blanco is Dem or Rep, white or coloured, but she and not only Bush alone (but him too) has given a lousy job performance in these days.

Wolfgang


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: GUEST,G
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 10:03 AM

Tia, this is an example of what I referred to on another thread. Going to a biased site. Try reading sources left and right and then decide. You are a prime example of what I see here, "Your heart will tell you who is speaking truth".

Think with your head1 It is fact, not feeling that indicates a persons' ability to think and speak truthfully.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Peace
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 10:11 AM

Tim,

I'm with you 100% for what it's worth. Your heart is just fine. So's yer thinking.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Amos
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 10:15 AM

Guest G:

I think you have some learning ahead, amigo. While it is critical to know the difference between facts, opinions, and fanatasies, it is feeling that enables one to see the whole and penetrate the obscure; these are two faces of the same power.

Thinking without heart leads to very poor decisions, in matters of human life.

A


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: GUEST,G
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 10:42 AM

I was merely referring to one who said your heart will tell you the truth. A little feeling is always present in decision making but so many here use too much feeling, i.e., reading what they want to hear,
that mmay of the facts are completely ignored.

I challenge you wait for a few weeks and see what the outcome is.
The facts of what happened with responders getting into LA and MS are still being ignored by those who continue to gore the Ox of GWB.

I can think of reasons to gore that Ox but respones time is not one of them. Even the Mayor of NOLA, who did not follow the exacuation plan at the onset has come up with evidence of how the Gonernor of LA failed. Have you talked to anyone from Biloxi?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Metchosin
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 11:16 AM

Amen, Amos. ...... Jesus wept.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 12:06 PM

Guest, G, they're just as pissed off with FEMA in Mississippi as they are in Louisiana. If Bush tries to make Blanco the fall guy for his own disasterous policies, he will be making a big mistake.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: GUEST,G
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 01:32 PM

Okay, who in Biloxi did you talk to?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Peace
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 01:43 PM

The LA governor requested federal aid on AUGUST 27, 2005.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 02:01 PM

I haven't talked to anyone. But I've seen a LOT of people being interviewed. If the Bush people (with your assistance) try to sweep them under a rug, they will only be shooting themelves in the foot in the long run, because people in Mississippi are upset.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Peace
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 02:09 PM

Well, it seems that Bush also thinks the Feds didn't do so well.

Even Georgie thinks things didn't work right.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 02:14 PM

From the Mayor of Hattiesburg, Mississippi...

"FEMA, meanwhile, has refused to release 50 trucks carrying water and ice sitting at Camp Shelby, Mississippi, Hattiesburg Mayor Johnny DuPree said.

'They're sitting down there right now because one person from FEMA won't make the call to say, "Release those trucks,"' he said.

Two-thirds of the residents of the southern Mississippi city have no power, and that figure was 100 percent for three-and-a-half days, he added.

He said FEMA representatives did not arrive in Hattiesburg -- 95 miles from New Orleans -- until Saturday.

'People from all over America have come in to help us," he said. "But the people who get paid to do this haven't done what I think they should have done.'"

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/04/katrina.blame/?section=cnn_topstories


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 11:21 PM

9/1/05

WASHINGTON - The federal government so far has bungled the job of quickly helping the multitudes of hungry, thirsty and desperate victims of Hurricane Katrina, former top federal, state and local disaster chiefs said Wednesday.

The experts, including a former Bush administration disaster response manager, told Knight Ridder that the government was not prepared, scrimped on storm spending and shifted its attention from dealing with natural disasters to fighting the global war on terrorism.

The disaster preparedness agency at the center of the relief effort is the Federal Emergency Management Agency, which was enveloped by the new Department of Homeland Security with a new mission aimed at responding to the attacks of al Qaeda.

'What you're seeing is revealing weaknesses in the state, local and federal levels,'' said Eric Tolbert, who until February was FEMA's disaster response chief. ``All three levels have been weakened. They've been weakened by diversion into terrorism.'

In interviews on Wednesday, several men and women who have led relief efforts for dozens of killer hurricanes, tornadoes and earthquakes over the years chastised current disaster leaders for forgetting the simple Boy Scout motto: Be prepared.

PROUD OF RESPONSE

Bush administration officials said they are proud of their efforts. Their first efforts emphasized rooftop rescues over providing food and water for already safe victims.

'We are extremely pleased with the response . . . every element of the federal government [and] all of our federal partners have made to this terrible tragedy,' Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said Wednesday.

The agency has more than 1,700 truckloads of water, meals, tents, generators and other supplies ready to go to the affected areas of the Gulf Coast, Chertoff said. Federal health officials have started setting up at least 40 medical shelters. The Coast Guard reports rescuing more than 1,200 people.

But residents, especially in Biloxi, Miss., said they aren't seeing the promised help, and Knight Ridder reporters said they saw little visible federal relief efforts, other than search-and-rescue teams. Some help started arriving in areas Wednesday by the truckload, but not everywhere.

'We're not getting any help yet,' said Biloxi Fire Department Battalion Chief Joe Boney. ``We need water. We need ice. I've been told it's coming, but we've got people in shelters who haven't had a drink since the storm.'


The slow response to Katrina and poor federal leadership is a replay of 1992's mishandling of Hurricane Andrew in South Florida, said former FEMA chief of staff Jane Bullock, a 22-year veteran of the agency.

Bullock blamed inexperienced federal leadership. She noted that Chertoff and FEMA Director Michael Brown had no disaster experience before they were appointed.

The slowness is all too familiar to Kate Hale. As Miami's disaster chief during Andrew, Hale asked: 'Where the hell's the cavalry?'

'I'm looking at people who are begging for ice and water and [a] presence,'' Hale said Wednesday. ``I'm seeing the same sort of thing that horrified us after Hurricane Andrew. . . . I realize they've got a huge job. Nobody understands better than I do what they're trying to respond to, but . . ..'

CUTS IN FUNDING

Budget cuts haven't made disaster preparedness any easier.

Last year, FEMA spent $250,000 to conduct an eight-day hurricane drill for a mock killer storm hitting New Orleans.

This year, the group was to design a plan to fix such unresolved problems as evacuating sick and injured people from the city's Superdome and housing tens of thousands of stranded citizens.

Funding for that planning was cut, Tolbert said. 'A lot of good was done, but it just wasn't finished.'

FEMA wasn't alone in cutting hurricane spending in New Orleans and the surrounding area.

Federal flood-control spending for southeastern Louisiana has been chopped from $69 million in 2001 to $36.5 million in 2005, according to budget documents.

In 2004, the Army Corps of Engineers essentially stopped major work on the now-breached levee system that had protected New Orleans from flooding. It was the first such stoppage in 37 years, The New Orleans Times-Picayune reported.

The Corps' New Orleans office, facing a $71 million cut, also eliminated funds to pay for a study on how to protect the Crescent City from a Category 5 storm, New Orleans City Business reported in June.

Being prepared for a disaster is basic emergency management, experts say.

'These things need to be planned and prepared for -- it just doesn't look like it was,' said James Lee Witt, a former director of FEMA during the Clinton administration who won bipartisan praise on Capitol Hill during his tenure.

A FEMA spokesman, James McIntyre, blamed the devastation in the region for slowing down relief efforts.

That explanation didn't satisfy Joe Myers, Florida's former emergency management chief.

'I would think that yesterday they could have flown in,' he said. 'Everyone was flying in. Put it this way, Fox [News] and CNN are there. If they can get there . . ..'

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/weather/hurricanes/12529729.htm?source=rss&channel=miamiherald_hurricanes


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Azizi
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 11:31 PM

Hurricane Andrew-Bush 1

Hurricane Katrina-Bush 2

Both Presidents' responses- disasters.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: TIA
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 12:42 AM

Look deep down inside yourself Guest G. Do you really truly believe the stuff you are repeating. One of my heros is Richard Feynman (no mushy thinker he) who said "the easiest person to fool is yourself."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 01:34 AM

"The facts of what happened with responders getting into LA and MS are still being ignored by those who continue to gore the Ox of GWB. "Guest/ G

For some reason this reminds me of what my very proper remember-the-Sabbath-to-keep-it-holy sister said, while we were working hard one Sunday to turn our mother's house inside out and clean it and set it to rights again. Coming back from emptying quart jars of homecanned discolored, out of date peaches into the pig slop, my sister said, as though arguing the point to herself: "Even in the Bible it says that on the Sabbath you should pull your neighbor's ass out of the ditch."

My mother said, mildly: 'That's 'neighbor's ox', honey."

In Dubya's case I think it's an ass.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 02:12 AM

Relevant bits excerpted from a longer article...


AAN EXCLUSIVE: Disaster in the Making

"Here's a story we ran in Oct. 7, 2004, questioning whether federal policy and budget changes�and homeland security concerns�are trumping protection from natural diasters. We're pulling it back to the top of the site due to Hurricane Katrina...

...Fridays don't get much busier than this. It's the morning of Sept. 3, and Federal Emergency Management Agency headquarters in Washington, D.C., is running at a full clip, having mobilized a cadre of disaster-response specialists in its National Emergency Operations Center the day before. 'This is our 'war room,' a FEMA employee explains.

'Right now we're in 24-hours-a-day activation,' he says. 'It's a double-whammy.' Indeed, the agency is still busy helping Florida recover from Hurricane Charley's punishing winds and rain when satellite images show that an even greater storm, Hurricane Frances, will soon make landfall. It appears so threatening that most of FEMA's personnel on the ground, along with 2.5 million Floridians, have evacuated from the storm's projected path.

Inside the op center, scores of personnel from FEMA and a host of other agencies, including the Environmental Protection Agency, the Coast Guard, the Army Corps of Engineers and the Department of Health and Human Services, buzz around in what appears to be a state of controlled chaos. They work the phones, hover over computer screens and trade the latest weather forecasts. Using a time-tested system of disaster management, they've split their tasks into 12 "emergency support functions" designed to bring in food, water, medical care, electricity, housing, transportation and other desperately needed resources as soon as Frances moves on.

John Crowe, a Department of Homeland Security geospatial-mapping expert detailed to FEMA to help track such outbreaks of rough weather, steps outside the building for a quick cigarette.
'Everybody's really running into gear here,' he says between puffs. 'FEMA's ready, about as ready as they've ever been.'

FEMA's relatively quick response to the hurricanes has thus far won mostly high marks from Florida officials, who remember well a time when the disaster agency seemed the last party to show up after catastrophes. In addition, President Bush has paid multiple visits to assure victims they will get whatever help is needed, and he promptly secured more than $2 billion from Congress to fund Florida's recovery.

As storms continue to batter the Panhandle, no one would call Florida lucky. But with elections just around the corner, the hurricanes could scarcely have hit at a better time or place for obtaining federal disaster assistance. 'They're doing a good job,' one former FEMA executive says of the Bush administration's response efforts. 'And the reason why they're doing that job is because it's so close to the election, and they can't f*ck it up, otherwise they lose Florida�and if they lose Florida, they might lose the election.'

Such political considerations may indeed make this round of recoveries go better than most. But long before this hurricane season, some emergency managers inside and outside of government started sounding an alarm that still rings loudly. Bush administration policy changes and budget cuts, they say, are sapping FEMA's long-term ability to cushion the blow of hurricanes, earthquakes, floods, tornados, wildfires and other natural disasters.

Among emergency specialists, 'mitigation'�measures taken in advance to minimize damage caused by natural disasters�is a crucial part of the strategy to save lives and cut recovery costs. But since 2001, key federal disaster mitigation programs, developed over many years, have been slashed. FEMA's Project Impact, a model mitigation program created by the Clinton administration, has been canceled outright. Federal funding of post-disaster mitigation efforts designed to protect people and property from the next disaster has been cut in half, and now communities across the country must compete for pre-disaster mitigation dollars.

As a result, some state and local emergency managers say, it's become more difficult to get the equipment and funds they need to most effectively deal with disasters. In North Carolina, a state regularly damaged by hurricanes and floods, FEMA recently refused the state's request to buy backup generators for emergency support facilities. And the budget cuts have halved the funding for a mitigation program that saved an estimated $8.8 million in recovery costs in three eastern N.C. communities alone after 1999's Hurricane Floyd. In Louisiana, another state vulnerable to hurricanes, requests for flood mitigation funds were rejected by FEMA this summer.

Consequently, the residents of these and other disaster-prone states will find the government less able to help them when help is needed most, and both states and the federal government will be forced to shoulder more costs after disasters strike.

In addition, the White House has pushed for privatization of essential government services, including disaster management, and merged FEMA into the Department of Homeland Security, where natural disaster programs are often sidelined by counter-terrorism programs. Along the way, morale at FEMA has plummeted, and many of the agency's most experienced personnel have left for work in other agencies or private corporations.

In June, Pleasant Mann, a 16-year FEMA veteran who heads the agency's government employee union, wrote members of Congress to warn of the agency's decay. 'Over the past three-and-one-half years, FEMA has gone from being a model agency to being one where funds are being misspent, employee morale has fallen, and our nation's emergency management capability is being eroded,' he wrote. 'Our professional staff are being systematically replaced by politically connected novices and contractors.'...

...In August 1992, Hurricane Andrew assaulted Florida and other Southern states with 170-mile-an-hour winds, killing 23 people and leaving a trail of devastation. The severity of the storm caught FEMA off-guard, and the agency did too little, too late to help the state recover, enraging thousands of storm victims. Several days after Andrew dissipated, Dade County's emergency manager famously pleaded, 'Where the hell is the cavalry?'

Two months later, President George H.W. Bush paid a price of sorts at the polls when Bill Clinton shrunk the incumbent's once-sizable lead and came within two percentage points of beating Bush in Florida. It was an important lesson learned for both the politicians and the emergency agency.

In 1993, President Clinton's new FEMA director, James Lee Witt, set the agency on a corrective course. Witt, who had served under then-Gov. Clinton as director of Arkansas emergency management, embarked on an ambitious campaign to bulk up the agency's natural disaster programs while staying prepared for "all hazards." Witt's changes reversed FEMA's reputation for being unfocused and ineffective. The agency drew praise from Democrats and Republicans for improving coordination with state and local emergency offices and turning attention and resources to the benefits of disaster mitigation.

'Mitigation is the cornerstone of emergency management,' a FEMA Web site explains today.

'It's the ongoing effort to lessen the impact disasters have on people's lives and property.' Under mitigation plans, houses in flood plains are moved or raised above the flood-line, buildings are designed to withstand hurricane winds and earthquakes, and communities are relocated away from likely wildfire zones. According to FEMA estimates, every dollar spent on mitigation saves roughly two dollars in disaster recovery costs.

The need for more systematic mitigation efforts was driven home by 1996's Hurricane Fran, which killed 37 people and caused tens of billions of dollars in damages. In 1997, Witt established Project Impact, which would become the agency's most high-profile mitigation program.

Under the project, FEMA fostered partnerships between federal, state and local emergency workers, along with local businesses, to prepare individual communities for natural disasters. Impact partnerships sprang up in all 50 states. In Seattle, Wash., for example, the grants were used to retrofit schools, bridges and houses at risk from earthquakes. In Pascagoula, Miss., the project funded the creation of a database of structures in the local flood plain�crucial information for preparing mitigation plans. In several eastern North Carolina communities, it helped fund and coordinate buyouts of houses in flood-prone areas.

By the time the Bush administration entered office in January 2001, some 250 communities had signed up for Project Impact. FEMA seemed sturdy, having found its role and proved itself capable of fulfilling it. But in the field of emergency management, some things can change as quickly as the weather...

...At the same time, Allbaugh gave contradictory signals on the value of mitigation, on one occasion chastising a community for doing too little to prepare in advance for disaster. In April 2001, he caused a stir when he asked Iowans, then in the midst of massive flood recovery efforts, 'How many times will the American taxpayer have to step in and take care of this flooding, which could be easily prevented by building levees and dikes?'

A month later, The Washington Post reported that Bush�s moves against mitigation programs were causing worries in disaster-prone states. 'Statehouse critics of the proposed cuts contend that in the long run they would cost the government more because many communities will be unable to afford preventative measures and as a result will require more relief money when disasters strike,' the newspaper noted.

By ignoring the logic of fully-funded mitigation and other preparedness programs, Bush's first FEMA director earned some scorn among emergency specialists. 'Allbaugh? He was inept,' says Claire Rubin, a researcher at George Washington University's Institute for Crisis, Disaster and Risk Management. 'He was chief of staff for Bush in Texas�that was his credential. He didn't have an emergency management background, other than the disasters he ran into in Texas, and he wasn't a very open guy. He didn't want to learn anything.'

Allbaugh's tenure at the agency would be a relatively short one. In December 2002, he announced he would leave his post. While political observers expected Allbaugh to join the Bush re-election effort, instead he set about creating a string of lobbying firms, including New Bridge Strategies (which grew out of Barbour, Griffith & Rogers), which helps U.S. companies win reconstruction contracts in Iraq. This summer, he started another consulting company with Andrew Lundquist, the former director of Vice President Dick Cheney's secretive energy policy task force. The firm's first client was Lockheed Martin, one of the country's largest defense contractors...

...But Bush's proposal won out, and a shift in priorities from natural disasters to counter-terrorism immediately took hold. In its 2002 budget, the White House doubled FEMA's budget to $6.6 billion, but of that sum, $3.5 billion was earmarked for equipment and training to help states and localities respond to terrorist attacks.

Michael Brown, a college friend of Allbaugh's who had served as FEMA's general counsel, was recruited to head the agency, which would now be part of the DHS's Emergency and Response Directorate. When the reorganization took effect on March 1, 2003, Brown assured skeptics that under the new arrangement, the country would be served by 'FEMA on steroids'�a faster, more effective agency...

...In 2003, Congress approved a White House proposal to cut FEMA's Hazard Mitigation Grant Program (HMGP) in half. Previously, the federal government was committed to invest 15 percent of the recovery costs of a given disaster in mitigating future problems. Under the Bush formula, the feds now cough up only 7.5 percent.

Such post-disaster mitigation efforts, specialists say, are crucial to minimizing future losses. It's after a disaster strikes, they argue, that the government can best take the steps necessary to avoid repeat problems, because that's when officials and victims are most receptive to mitigation plans.

Larry Larson is executive director of the Association of State Floodplain Managers, an organization that keeps a close eye on mitigation matters. The Bush administration, he says, is 'being penny-wise and pound foolish' by cutting the HMGP formula. His group has pressed Congress to restore the federal investment to 15 percent of disaster costs, and he expects that some legislators will soon take up the cause on their own. 'Florida's going to be looking for mitigation money so that they can rebuild in a safer fashion,' he says. 'I'm sure that the Florida delegation is going to be thinking now about how the state can't do what's needed with the recent cuts in post-disaster mitigation�how they can't do today what they could have done before.'

Pressed on this issue, Bush administration officials have said that the formula puts more of the mitigation burden on state governments, where it belongs. But the National Emergency Management Association (NEMA) points out that, now more than ever, cash-strapped states cannot afford to pick up the balance. 'The federal focus on terrorism preparedness has left states with an increased responsibility to provide support for natural disasters and emergencies,' noted a report by the association this summer. 'State budget shortfalls have given emergency management programs less to work with, at a time when more is expected of them. In fiscal year 2004, the average budget for a state emergency management agency was $40.8 million, a 23 percent reduction from fiscal year 2003.'

The administration also argues that its new pre-disaster mitigation grants, which are awarded on a competitive basis, will help states pick up the slack. But again, emergency managers say it's not enough. In recent congressional testimony, a NEMA representative noted that 'in a purely competitive grant program, lower income communities, those most often at risk to natural disaster, will not effectively compete with more prosperous cities.... The prevention of repetitive damages caused by disasters would go largely unprepared in less-affluent and smaller communities.'

Indeed, some in-need areas just have been left out of the program. 'In a sense, Louisiana is the flood plain of the nation,' noted a 2002 FEMA report. 'Louisiana waterways drain two-thirds of the continental United States. Precipitation in New York, the Dakotas, even Idaho and the Province of Alberta, finds its way to Louisiana's coastline.' As a result, flooding is a constant threat, and the state has an estimated 18,000 buildings that have been repeatedly damaged by flood waters�the highest number of any state. And yet, this summer FEMA denied Louisiana communities' pre-disaster mitigation funding requests.

In Jefferson Parish, part of the New Orleans metropolitan area, flood zone manager Tom Rodrigue is baffled by the development. 'You would think we would get maximum consideration' for the funds, he says. 'This is what the grant program called for. We were more than qualified for it.'...

...In case Congress hasn't gotten the message, former FEMA director James Lee Witt recently restated it in strong terms. 'I am extremely concerned that the ability of our nation to prepare for and respond to disasters has been sharply eroded,' he testified at a March 24, 2004, hearing on Capitol Hill. 'I hear from emergency managers, local and state leaders, and first responders nearly every day that the FEMA they knew and worked well with has now disappeared. In fact one state emergency manager told me, 'It is like a stake has been driven into the heart of emergency management.'"...

...'This is an exposed nerve in the emergency management community, in the sense that resources have been shifted away from hurricanes, tornados and other kinds of disasters--the kind of disasters that are more likely to occur than terrorism.'"

The rest of the article here...

http://www.jacksonfreepress.com/comments.php?id=4176_0_9_0_C


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: GUEST,G
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 07:55 AM

Once again, I suggest we all wait until the facts are above the 'surface'. "shots fired at a rescue Helicopter in a neighborhood" now seems to be "two people shooting at each other in the vicinity of the Super Dome when a Helicopter was nearby".

Ebbie; Those that wish to "keep the Sabbath holy" still do.
Otherwise, I don't understand what "pouring peaches into hog slop" has to do with this.

Tia, I don't thing I am repeating anything. Just some thoughts of mine based on the few conclusions that can be honestly drawn in this short time period. And I agree, the "easiest person to fool is yourself". You think about that also.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 11:49 AM

News of one minority group that hasn't turned up in the media this time around. The region hit had a variety of indigenous tribes, and this is a followup to an article I posted a couple of days ago. This came in an email, I don't have a link.

Indian Country responds to victims of Katrina
09/02/2005 - INDIAN COUNTRY

INDIANZ.COM
Tribal nations across the United States are sending their support to the victims of Hurricane Katrina as federal officials pledged to help tribes affected by a disaster that battered the Gulf Coast.

The National Congress of American Indians has set up a relief fund to assist tribes and their members in Alabama, Louisiana and Mississippi. Six federally recognized tribes are located in the three states, which were hit by wind, rain and flooding."Our thoughts and prayers are with the people of the Indian Nations located in the region effected by Hurricane Katrina," said NCAI President Tex G. Hall. "It is times like this when it is important for Native people to come together to help one another out."

NCAI staff said it has reached some, but not all, of the tribes affected by Katrina. Reports so far have indicated that the Mississippi Band of Choctaw Indians suffered the most damage. The Mississippi Choctaw Reservation was hit by Katrina as it was downgraded to a tropical depression. Several tribal communities have suffered "extensive" physical damage, the Bureau of Indian Affairs said. Telephone service and power have been lost in some areas. "The BIA is committed to helping these communities get back on their feet," said associate deputy secretary Jim Cason. "We will continue to do all we can to meet that goal." With NCAI coordinating financial assistance and the BIA addressing public safety, emergency access and emergency service, Indian Country is helping out in other ways. The Seminole Tribe of Florida sent emergency crews to the Mississippi Choctaw Reservation earlier this week, Indian Country Today reported.

Support is coming from as far away as Oregon. The Klamath Tribes are sending their primary physician, Dr. Curtis Hanst, and their pharmacist, Dr. Matt Baker, to New Orleans, the city that has endured some of the worst damage. Hanst and Baker are due to leave Klamath Falls either today or tomorrow. "This is a devastating and traumatic event in that region and the Klamath Tribes are honored to be able to assist," said Allison Henrie, the administrative officer for the tribe's health and family services department.

New Orleans is currently in a state of chaos as tens of thousands of refugees remain stranded in a city deluged by flood waters. After losing their homes and property to the storm, people are now running out of food, clothing and drinkable water. The death toll could be in the thousands.

The picture isn't as grim for tribal communities but some problems have been reported. Members of the Tunica-Biloxi Tribe of Louisiana who live in Slidell have lost homes although the storm didn't claim any lives, NCAI said yesterday. The tribe, meanwhile, is housing nearly 600 refugees at its convention center. Some are residents of New Orleans who may not be able to return home for several more months, if at all.

In Alabama, the Poarch Band of Creek Indians suffered only minor damage. But April Sells, the tribe's management director, said members of Southeastern tribes who live in the region have been hit hard."We're setting up a shelter for our members who are coming back to the reservation because they now have no home and no place to go," Sells said. The Poarch Creeks are also sending clothing, food and water to the Chitimacha Tribe in Louisiana, Sells said.

The Chitimacha Tribe has already taken in 400 tribal members who lived in New Orleans, the BIA said. Other communities affected are the Coushatta Tribe of Louisiana and the Jena Band of Choctaw Indians.

To donate to the NCAI Hurricane Relief Fund, send donations to:
National Congress of American Indians
1301 Connecticut Ave, NW
Suite 200
Washington, DC 20036

Put Hurricane Relief in subject line of check.

All donations will go to the tribes in Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama. A large contribution to the fund is expected from a California gaming tribe. The National Indian Gaming Association is helping to coordinate. Copyright 2005 Indianz.Com


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Peace
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 11:53 AM

Link here, SRS.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: bobad
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 01:11 PM

Three cheers for Canada!


Canadians beat U.S. Army to New Orleans suburb

Thu Sep 8, 1:36 AM ET

BATON ROUGE, Louisiana (Reuters) - A Canadian search-and-rescue team reached a flooded New Orleans suburb to help save trapped residents five days before the U.S. military, a Louisiana state senator said on Wednesday.

The Canadians beat both the Army and the
Federal Emergency Management Agency, the U.S. disaster response department, to St. Bernard Parish east of New Orleans, where flood waters are still 8 feet deep in places, Sen. Walter Boasso said.

"Fabulous, fabulous guys," Boasso said. "They started rolling with us and got in boats to save people."

"We've got Canadian flags flying everywhere."

The stricken parish of 68,000 people was largely ignored by U.S. authorities who scrambled to get aid to New Orleans, a few miles (km) away. Boasso said residents of the outlying parishes had to mount their own rescue and relief efforts when Hurricane Katrina roared ashore on August 29.

The U.S. government response to the disaster has been widely criticized. Politicians and editorial writers have called for the resignation of top Bush administration officials.

Boasso said U.S. authorities began airdropping relief supplies to St. Bernard last Wednesday, the same day the Canadian rescue team of about 50 members arrived from Vancouver, nearly 2,200 miles away.

"They chartered a plane and flew down," he said.

Two FEMA officials reached the parish on Sunday and the U.S. Army arrived on Monday, he said.

"Why does it take them seven days to get the Army in?" Boasso asked.

He speculated that the smaller parishes suffered because the focus was on New Orleans, the famous home of jazz and Mardi Gras.

As for the Canadians, Boasso gave thanks for their quick work.

"They were so glad to be here," he said. "They're still here. They are actually going door-to-door looking in the attics" for people to rescue, he said.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Amos
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 01:12 PM

Adventures of one family visitng a FEMA Relocation Campl, rmeiniscent of the DP Camps following WWII.

Seems to be some confusion between refugees from a hurricane and political prisoners going on, eh?


A


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: TIA
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 02:55 PM

My good person, if I'm the one who brought it up, wouldn't it seem that I'm already thinking about it?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Peace
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 02:56 PM

No point tryin' to teach a cat to sing. It's a waste of your time and it irritates the cat.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 08:55 PM

Just stand on its tail...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 08:15 PM

Here's another piece of good news that came through the email this afternoon from one of our librarians. I posted the request for help from the LA State librarians a day or two ago on one of these threads:

Subject: AmigosNow, September 9, 2005

SPECIAL NOTICE
-----------------------------------------------------------
RESPONSE TO LOUISIANA STATE LIBRARY'S CALL FOR COMPUTERS, PRINTERS TERMED "TREMENDOUS"
Libraries around the country have resoundingly responded to the State Library of Louisiana's call earlier this week for computers and printers, notes State Librarian Rebecca Hamilton, rhamilton@crt.state.la.us.

"The outpouring of support for our request for computers has been tremendous," Hamilton advises. "We nearly have what we need. Please put out the word that we have what we need in the way of computers and printers and people can focus on those other states that have been devastated. Tell everyone to pass on the word. We are working quickly to prepare the computers for our libraries. You all have saved the day!"
------------------------------------------------------


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 11:37 PM

Dallas launches Katrina housing fund

I'm a logged-on user of this site, but they usually want you to register, so I'll also post the story for those who don't want to sign up.




DALLAS - With New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin looking on, Dallas Mayor Laura Miller on Friday announced a campaign to raise private dollars to move Hurricane Katrina evacuees into apartments around Dallas.

Miller said the city aims to raise $3 million in private donations to cover the first two months' rent for as many as 800 Katrina households. She said the campaign already has received $250,000 in donations, and the 7-11 convenience stores around Dallas have agreed to sell Mardi Gras beads for $1 each to benefit the fund.

About 17,000 Hurricane Katrina survivors from Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama were still housed at Reunion Arena and the Dallas Convention Center as of Thursday afternoon. Miller said most evacuees who were receiving public assistance in New Orleans have already been placed. Those that remain are those that had jobs, and they are the ones the fund is intended to help.

"They were in apartments, in rental homes," Miller said. "They were working the Friday before the hurricane, and they have lost everything."

Nagin was in Dallas to see family members who had evacuated here as Katrina neared New Orleans, but also because he wanted to check on the 1,500 evacuees who are still at Reunion Arena and the Dallas Convention Center. He said he was amazed at the effort's organization.

"You know you have a slogan, it says 'Don't Mess with Texas,'" he said. "It's so appropriate, because you are an incredible people."

Nagin had nothing but positive words about how Dallas has provided housing, food and other aid for evacuees.

"I saw sick people being taken care of in ways that we couldn't take care of them in New Orleans," Nagin said. "I can't say thank you enough."

Nagin and Miller both expressed frustration with FEMA's involvement in helping the hurricane victims who are now in North Texas; the Dallas mayor said the city is not waiting for federal and state help to move Hurricane Katrina victims out of the city's shelters.

"There is some chaos going on, and dysfunction with the federal government," Miller said. "Dallas can no longer wait."

Dallas megachurch The Potter's House will run the program. They are looking for churches, groups and organizations to adopt families, and help them find beds, cribs, dishes and other basics to help them get back on their feet.

It's a lot to ask after so much has already been given, but Potter's House spiritual leader Bishop T.D. Jakes is convinced that North Texans have even more in their hearts to give.

"If there is any positive thing to come from the hurricane, it's that it has blown God's people together in an unprecedented way," Jakes said.

If you want to donate items or adopt a family, call The Potter's House at 214-632-4081.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: dianavan
Date: 10 Sep 05 - 01:03 AM

bobad -

I read about the search and rescue team's plans before they actually left Vancouver. I remember the leader of the team saying they weren't waiting for an invitation.

Gutsy! Good on em!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: beardedbruce
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 02:45 PM

Congress, Heal Thyself

Monday, September 12, 2005; Page A18

MEMBERS OF CONGRESS have been quick to point fingers in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. Some of the blame ought to be directed at themselves.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/11/AR2005091100954.html

(from that clicky-)

Members of the Louisiana congressional delegation might ask themselves -- or, even better, their constituents might ask -- whether they steered federal spending in the state to benefit their constituents or their financial underwriters. As The Post's Michael Grunwald reported, Louisiana has received more money for Army Corps of Engineers civil works projects than any other state during the Bush administration -- about $1.9 billion. But much of that money has gone to navigation projects of benefit to oil companies and shipping interests, not for shoring up protection against flooding. Given scarce resources, was dredging the J. Bennett Johnston Waterway really the best use of federal dollars?

Likewise, the Katrina disaster ought to lead lawmakers to rethink the irrational, porky formula that Congress has insisted on for spending disaster prevention funds. Instead of allocating money based solely on risk, Congress doles out cash even to states and cities facing minimal danger. That way, every area gets its slice of the homeland security funding pie -- and every lawmaker gets to claim credit.

The administration has tried to change these rules, but it's run into stiff resistance from some of those very lawmakers who now bewail the lack of preparedness exposed by Hurricane Katrina, including Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine), who as chair of the Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee has agreed to change the current formula but has held out for an arrangement still tilted too generously to small states such as her own.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: pdq
Date: 15 Sep 05 - 12:43 PM

Blanco takes blame for state response
By Melinda DeSlatte
ASSOCIATED PRESS
September 15, 2005        

BATON ROUGE, La. -- Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco yesterday took responsibility for failures and missteps in the immediate response to Hurricane Katrina and pledged a united effort to rebuild areas ravaged by the storm.
    "We all know that there were failures at every level of government: state, federal and local. At the state level, we must take a careful look at what went wrong and make sure it never happens again. The buck stops here, and as your governor, I take full responsibility," Mrs. Blanco told lawmakers in a special meeting of the Louisiana Legislature.
    Mrs. Blanco's statement came a day after President Bush said he would "take responsibility" for federal failures in dealing with Katrina. The Democratic governor, who has criticized the response of federal officials to the storm and subsequent flood that deluged New Orleans, yesterday told legislators that Mr. Bush is "a friend and partner" in Louisiana's recovery effort.
    In New Orleans yesterday, test results released showed that floodwaters still pose a health risk because of dangerous levels of sewage-related bacteria and toxic chemicals, potentially delaying the mayor's plan to reopen parts of the city by Monday.
    The Army Corps of Engineers estimates that up to 50 percent of the floodwaters that had covered 80 percent of the city had been removed and said New Orleans would be almost completely drained by Oct. 8.
    Pumps are removing more than 8 billion gallons a day, and Mayor C. Ray Nagin was deliberating time frames for reopening parts of the city that are dry, including the French Quarter and Central Business District.
    Addressing Louisiana lawmakers yesterday, Mrs. Blanco said she would appoint an outside financial adviser to oversee the expenditure of billions of dollars in federal money that Congress has allocated to help the recovery from the disaster.
    "I assure the Congress and every American taxpayer that every nickel will be properly spent," Mrs. Blanco said.
    Meanwhile, in Washington, Senate Republicans scuttled an attempt by Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, New York Democrat, to establish an independent, bipartisan panel patterned after the September 11 commission to investigate what went wrong with federal, state and local governments' response to the hurricane.
    Separately, a Senate committee opened a hearing on the disaster, with the panel's Republican chairman saying that changes instituted after September 11 in the government's emergency preparedness failed their first major test during Katrina.
    With billions of dollars to boost disaster preparedness at all levels of government, "we would have expected a sharp, crisp response to this terrible tragedy," said Sen. Susan Collins, Maine Republican. "Instead, we witnessed what appeared to be a sluggish initial response."
    The official death toll from Hurricane Katrina rose to 708 yesterday after Louisiana confirmed 51 more deaths. In addition to Louisiana's 474 deaths, 218 deaths have been recorded in Mississippi, two in Alabama and 14 in Florida, according to officials in the different states.
    At least two of the Katrina evacuees scattered across the country have committed suicide, and 55 others have died, authorities said yesterday.
    Most of the post-Katrina dead were elderly or already sick, with heart conditions, cancer or other terminal illnesses, authorities said. Many had been living in hospitals, hospices and nursing homes. Several suffered heart attacks.
    On Tuesday, Mrs. Blanco had lashed out at the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), saying she was "outraged" at the slow pace of recovering bodies of those who perished in the storm. Yesterday, FEMA responded by saying that Louisiana officials asked to take over the effort last week.
    "The collection of bodies is not normally a FEMA responsibility," FEMA spokesman David Passey said.
    According to documents released by the state yesterday, Kenyon International Emergency Services was hired Tuesday to recover, document and handle the bodies of the victims of Hurricane Katrina. The contract will cost almost $119,000 a day for two months.
    "It's going to take months, maybe years," said Dr. Louis Cataldi, the coroner for Baton Rouge Parish. "This is not going away."
    Louisiana transportation officials estimated yesterday that about 1.2 million people were evacuated from the metropolitan New Orleans area in the two days leading up to Katrina's Aug. 29 landfall and that many of those people are still scattered in other states.
    Despite speculation that some would prefer to settle in their new towns, Mr. Nagin expected most would return and rebuild.
    "I know New Orleanians," he said. "Once the beignets start cooking up again and the gumbo is in the pots and red beans and rice are served on Monday -- in New Orleans, and not where they are -- they're going to be back."
    A day after Mr. Nagin said the city is essentially broke, New Orleans' already beleaguered school system announced that it would also need federal assistance to keep paying its teachers.
    Dan Packer, chief executive of Entergy New Orleans, said the company had restored power to 75 percent of the 1.1 million customers who were out at the height of the storm, mostly in Mississippi and areas of Louisiana north and west of New Orleans.
    President Bush will arrive in Louisiana today to deliver a prime-time televised speech to the nation.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Azizi
Date: 15 Sep 05 - 06:18 PM

See this article by Rebecca Solnit from a forthcoming issue of Harper's Magazine, October 2005. The Uses of Disaster

The subtitle for this article is "Notes on bad weather and good government".

Here is an excerpt from the postscript, available only on the Web, that specifically addresses the disaster in New Orleans.

"Disasters are almost by definition about the failure of authority, in part because the powers that be are supposed to protect us from them, in part also because the thousand dispersed needs of a disaster overwhelm even the best governments, and because the government version of governing often arrives at the point of a gun. But the authorities don't usually fail so spectacularly. Failure at this level requires sustained effort. The deepening of the divide between the haves and have nots, the stripping away of social services, the defunding of the infrastructure, mean that this disaster—not of weather but of policy—has been more or less what was intended to happen, if not so starkly in plain sight.

The most hellish image in New Orleans was not the battering waves of Lake Pontchartrain or even the homeless children wandering on raised highways. It was the forgotten thousands crammed into the fetid depths of the Superdome. And what most news outlets failed to report was that those infernos were not designed by the people within, nor did they represent the spontaneous eruption of nature red in tooth and claw. They were created by the authorities. The people within were not allowed to leave. The Convention Center and the Superdome became open prisons. "They won't let them walk out," reported Fox News anchor Shepard Smith, in a radical departure from the script. "They got locked in there. And anyone who walks up out of that city now is turned around. You are not allowed to go to Gretna, Louisiana, from New Orleans, Louisiana. Over there, there's hope. Over there, there's electricity. Over there, there is food and water. But you cannot go from here to there. The government will not allow you to do it. It's a fact." Jesse Jackson compared the Superdome to the hull of a slave ship. People were turned back at the Gretna bridge by armed authorities, men who fired warning shots over the growing crowd. Men in control. Lorrie Beth Slonsky and Larry Bradshaw, paramedics in New Orleans for a conference, wrote in an email report (now posted at CounterPunch) that they saw hundreds of stranded tourists thus turned back. "All day long, we saw other families, individuals and groups make the same trip up the incline in an attempt to cross the bridge, only to be turned away. Some chased away with gunfire, others simply told no, others to be verbally berated and humiliated. Thousands of New Orleaners were prevented and prohibited from self-evacuating the city on foot." That was not anarchy, nor was it civil society...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: GUEST,G
Date: 15 Sep 05 - 06:24 PM

Good for the Washington Post article, Beardedbruce. I wonder how many here really read it. I had forgotten about it but will mention it on the outraged thread so no one misses it.

Keep in mind people, it was Congress that set up the Homeland Security Program and insistited that FEMA be an integral part of it.
Rumor has it that the Dems insisted that FEMAs inclusion had to be done or no deal.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Azizi
Date: 15 Sep 05 - 06:38 PM

here is the end of that Harper's Magazine article by Rebecca Solnit:

"And when we look back at Katrina, we may see that the greatest savagery was that of our public officials, who not only failed to provide the infrastructure, social services, and opportunities that would have significantly decreased the vulnerability of pre-hurricane New Orleans but who also, when disaster did occur, put their ideology before their people."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Amos
Date: 15 Sep 05 - 06:49 PM

IS it not odd that in a scandal involving two adults covering up an illicit affair, the forces of Congressional fury were so aroused as to require an independent counsel to investigate what happened? WHile in a scandal involving the loss of hundreds of lives and causing untold misery attributable to mismanaged emergency responses, the Governmental powers avoid having any independent investigators?

BB, thanks for the article on the skewing and porkery of Federal spending. I think there is a lot to uncover on thats side of things as well.

What facts are referred to by the statement that the "administration tried to change these rules....".

Seems to me some details have been omitted here for some reason.

A


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: GUEST,G
Date: 15 Sep 05 - 08:23 PM

I do not like what I am becoming here - attacking the posters rather than contraidicting the content of the post(s).

But, Azizi and Amos, your last two statements are of such a generalized nature and without basic substance and contribute to the lowering of your stature within this board.
You simply ignored the factual comments of beardedbruce and pdq and proceeded to skirt the issues with mundane comments.

Don't, of course, take my word but go back and read their posts several times and then yours. Let me know if you think I am completely out of line in my thinking. If you are fair and honest, you will admit to some neglect in your thought processes.

Until then, I shall take a short sabbtical and get back to being an fair and astute reviewer of the posts presented here.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: dianavan
Date: 15 Sep 05 - 08:40 PM

astute?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: GUEST,G
Date: 15 Sep 05 - 08:43 PM

Yes, astute!
I would not expect you to understand that word.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Sep 05 - 08:45 AM

Here is a classic example of the same disaster incident/story being reported 4 different ways.
AP, Reuters, local and the US memo to officially kill the story.

A number of people died in this incident as well as morphing into the grand daddy of all looter violence stories that went right to the top of the media at large.
http://xymphora.blogspot.com/2005/09/danziger-bridge-incidents.html


http://xymphora.blogspot.com/2005/09/danziger-bridge-incidents.html


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: dianavan
Date: 16 Sep 05 - 08:43 PM

Guest G -

astute - shrewd and discerning, especially where personal benefit is to be derived.

I think you are blowing your own horn.

Neither Amos nor Azzisi seem to have this need.

Yes, I will confirm that you hold yourself in high esteem while negating the intelligence of others.

Does anyone, beside yourself, think so highly of you?

Where's the applause?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: GUEST,G
Date: 17 Sep 05 - 09:04 AM

I apologize if I struck a nerve.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Sep 05 - 09:25 AM

BLOWING YOUR OWN HORN ? http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/tuba.jpg

We all recognize a person who enjoys "hitting a nerve" as an arrogant and somehwat sadistic kind of person who is otherwise known as a troll. They may actually think that a response of outrage is proof they are right when nothing could be farther from the truth.

People like that are easily torn apart on the stand and pose a greater threat to themselves than a clever lawyer/prosecuter.

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/tuba5.jpg


now back to our regularly scheduled aftermath.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: GUEST,G
Date: 17 Sep 05 - 09:40 AM

Donuel, once again I say, you are such a clever fellow.

Your attack mode works not with me. My sympathies are extended to you
albeit on a very limited basis.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: pdq
Date: 18 Sep 05 - 11:21 PM

The Louisiana Office of Emergency Preparedness is the agency responsible for coordinating hurricane relief efforts and directing federal help. This is where the contingency plans are written and this is where the buck stops. Seems they may have been nothing but a bunch of self-serving politicos planning how to divide up the federal aid pie. Note, the LA TImes is as Left as any major newspaper in the country. Note, indictments were in March, long before the hurricane. Note, return of money stolen as early as 1998 is demanded.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

September 17, 2005
        latimes.com : National News        


KATRINA'S AFTERMATH
Louisiana Officials Indicted Before Katrina Hit

*        Federal audits found dubious expenditures by the state's emergency preparedness agency, which will administer FEMA hurricane aid.

By Ken Silverstein and Josh Meyer, Times Staff Writers

WASHINGTON — Senior officials in Louisiana's emergency planning agency already were awaiting trial over allegations stemming from a federal investigation into waste, mismanagement and missing funds when Hurricane Katrina struck.

And federal auditors are still trying to track as much as $60 million in unaccounted for funds that were funneled to the state from the Federal Emergency Management Agency dating back to 1998.

In March, FEMA demanded that Louisiana repay $30.4 million to the federal government.

The problems are particularly worrisome, federal officials said, because they involve the Louisiana Office of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness, the agency that will administer much of the billions in federal aid anticipated for victims of Katrina.

Earlier this week, federal Homeland Security officials announced they would send 30 investigators and auditors to the Gulf Coast to ensure relief funds were properly spent.

Details of the ongoing criminal investigations come from two reports by the inspector general's office in the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, which oversees FEMA, as well as in state audits, and interviews this week with federal and state officials.

The reports were prepared by the federal agency's field office in Denton, Texas, and cover 1998 to 2003. Improper expenditures previously identified by auditors include a parka, a briefcase and a trip to Germany.

Much of the FEMA money that was unaccounted for was sent to Louisiana under the Hazard Mitigation Grant program, intended to help states retrofit property and improve flood control facilities, for example.

The $30.4 million FEMA is demanding back was money paid into that program and others, including a program to buy out flood-prone homeowners. As much as $30 million in additional unaccounted for spending also is under review in audits that have not yet been released, according to a FEMA official.

One 2003 federal investigation of allegedly misspent funds in Ouachita Parish, a district in northern Louisiana, grew into a probe that sprawled into more than 20 other parishes.

Mark Smith, a spokesman for the Louisiana emergency office, said the agency had responded to calls for reform, and that "we now have the policy and personnel in place to ensure that past problems aren't repeated."

He said earlier problems were largely administrative mistakes, not due to corruption.

But federal officials disagreed. They said FEMA for years expressed concerns over patterns of improper management and lax oversight throughout the state agency, and said most problems had not been corrected.

They point to criminal indictments of three state workers as evidence the problem was more than management missteps. Two other state emergency officials also were identified in court documents as unindicted co-conspirators.

"The charges were made after some very extensive reviews by FEMA investigators and other authorities, who identified issues they felt were of the severity and magnitude to refer them to the U.S. attorney's office," said David Passey, the spokesman for FEMA's regional office in Texas.

Passey, while acknowledging that the state had made some administrative changes, said it had not completed the kind of overhaul FEMA said was needed.

"It concerns us a lot. We are devoted to the mission of helping people prepare for, prevent and recover from disasters and we want these federal funds — this taxpayer money — to be spent and used well and in accordance with the rules," he said.

Keith Ashdown of Taxpayers for Common Sense, a Washington watchdog group, said recent Louisiana history showed that FEMA "money earmarked for saving lives and homes'' was instead squandered in "a cesspool of wasteful spending."

Louisiana's emergency office receives money directly from FEMA. It passes on much of the funding to local governments that apply for assistance.

The audit reports said state operating procedures increased the likelihood of fraud and corruption going undetected.




                         more here but registration is required


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Sep 05 - 12:34 AM

Now the people start back.
The following is a link to an announcement on the re-entry plan by Jefferson Parish President Aaron Broussard.
The first line states: "All Jefferson parish residents are welcome to return by Sunday, September 18th by 8:00 pm."
http://www.jeffparish.net/JeffParish.nsf/vwWeb/OtherReEntryPlanAmend091705
Jefferson Parish


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: GUEST,G
Date: 19 Sep 05 - 06:57 AM

Thanks, Q. To me, the above illustrates that the Government in the area has not a clue. Going back to areas without adequate facilities only compounds the health situation.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: tongue through cheek
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Sep 05 - 08:44 AM

Bush apologists unite!

We all know George did not cause the storm. We all know that local evacuation orders were primarily an after thought.

Just because the Bush administration was surprised and overwhelmed on 9-11, in post war Iraq and in various federal responses to the Katrina storm DOES NOT MEAN that he will not get it right the next time. So what if GWB has three strikes against him already, we can pass a law to give him four.

Jeez, give the poor guy a chance. We have to unite and start apologizing like we have never apologized before. President Bush is leading the charge by declaring respondsibility for emergency responses.

The President has extolled the virtues of the CIA (Christ in Action) for their humanitarian aid in feeding and clothing the storm victims.
Now its our turn to bite the bullet, hunker down, dig deep and make tax cuts permanent.

There will be plenty of money to rebuild the South by CUTTING:
Minimum wage, Medicare drug benefits, food stamps, EPA super fund clean ups, air quality standards, veteran benefits and turning over Social Security to Wall Street giants to invest at their will.

Even if we do borrow from Japan and Chinese banks, if we default, it will be their problem.

So lets apologize, rally the troops and pray. Pray like you have never preyed before. Prey upon the poor, the disinfranchised and elderly. Pray that God will once again be on speaking terms with our President. Pray Apologize and Cut spending (PACS)
Our tax cut depends upon it.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Sep 05 - 09:18 AM

Donuel, Sounds like you could use the phone number of my shrink.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Sep 05 - 10:06 AM

cool, shrinks are often fans of sarcasm.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 19 Sep 05 - 11:59 AM

Well it seems as if the esteemed Mayor of N.O. has spoken. Yes, the same mayor who left all of the school buses parked in neat little rows as to make a pretty symmetrical display when the flood waters advanced. Nevermind the people stuck in the Superdome or the Convention Center.
He NOW has ok'd people to come back into N.O. and in the meantime, guess what? There's another storm out there getting ready to enter the Gulf. TS Rita soon to be Hurricane Rita is the latest stray turd in the toilet bowl that we call the Gulf of Mexico. Round and Round and Round it goes....where it will stop....nobody knows. But let's let the people back in so they can get stuck for a second time if that thing should draw a bead on N.O.

Good idea, Mayor.

Ranks right up there with leaving the buses locked up.



Hubby


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: GUEST,G
Date: 19 Sep 05 - 12:13 PM

"...latest stray turd in the toilet bowl....."
I had to go back, thought is was Peace or Firth posting.lol

Can we hope that some, just some, of the folks here blaming everything
on the Federal response will catch a small clue as to the total ineptness of the local government?

They can also get stuck with NO potable water and a large percentage of the sewage lift stations out of commission.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Sep 05 - 12:04 PM

There is NO central authority that can enforce evacuation or rules of re-population for metro New Orleans. Only the Louisiana State Government could coordinate responses, and they failed to do so. There is blame on everyone's part, but State laws and authorities are the only means of coordinating the whole. But could they have done so?

New Orleans City (and the mayor) lack authority outside of the legal and artificial City boundaries which cover only part of metro New Orleans and about 60% of the population. Cities such as Kenner (between the International Airport and central N. O.) have their own governments, police, etc. (and we see nasty situations such as their mayor's refusal to give shelter to Hispanics working in their community).
Cities on the south side of the River, such as Gretna, also have their own government, police, etc.- (it was Gretna that locked down the bridge from 'downtown' N. O. to their city, keeping refugees out).

The President of Jefferson Parish is not bound by New Orleans pronouncements or orders. Part of his Parish is part of central New Orleans, but Algiers, Gretna, etc., are traditionally considered his government's responsibility. A municipality such as Gretna, however, will tend to go its own way.
If the Parish President says the Parish is open for business, only the State Government can naysay his order. His "welcome to Jefferson Parish residents," linked by Q on the 17th, has not yet been withdrawn although the New Orleans mayor, because of the new hurricane Rita approaching the Gulf, has issued a delay for the part of the Parish within his city.

In other words, there is NO centralized authority over metro New Orleans.

Most of Louisiana's population is in the southern part of the State, hence it elects a considerable part of the State government's representatives. The State Governor and his officials will do nothing to upset the southern part of their constituency. They seldom can be convinced to take the bull by the horns.

Now we see the Federal Government is "advising" caution, but unless it enacts martial law, it cannot force local authorities to comply with their advice. Its evacuation 'orders' cannot be enforced.

We can only 'wait and see' if, in the future, the State can re-structure the lines of authority to cover the entire New Orleans metro population.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: CarolC
Date: 20 Sep 05 - 01:28 PM

http://mediamatters.org/items/200509090002


FEMA responsible for coordinating Red Cross efforts as well as emergency disaster relief

In touting Evans's assertion that state officials blocked the Red Cross from New Orleans to avoid encouraging people to stay or return, Fox News and others have omitted another key fact: It was the federal government that was primarily responsible for coordinating operations, including the activities of the Red Cross. Presumably, if FEMA had deemed it necessary for the Red Cross to enter New Orleans, the agency could have intervened with state authorities at any time. Both the federal Department of Homeland Security's (DHS) December 2004 National Response Plan (NRP) and the Red Cross' charter clearly place the Red Cross under the purview of FEMA. Further, the response plan stipulates that federal agencies should strive for full coordination with state officials but not allow such coordination to "impede the rapid deployment and use of critical resources."

According to the federal charter of the American Red Cross, the organization has "the legal status of 'a federal instrumentality' " with "responsibilities delegated to it by the Federal government." Listed among these responsibilities is "to maintain a system of domestic and international disaster relief, including mandated responsibilities under the Federal Response Plan coordinated by the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA)."

The NRP represents the most recently approved "federal response plan." It confirms that the Red Cross falls under the purview of the federal government:

    This plan is applicable to all Federal departments and agencies that may be requested to provide assistance or conduct operations in the context of actual or potential Incidents of National Significance. This includes the American Red Cross, which functions as an Emergency Support Function (ESF) primary organization in coordinating the use of mass care resources in a Presidentially declared disaster or emergency.

    Departments and agencies at all levels of government and certain NGOs, such as the American Red Cross, may be required to deploy to Incidents of National Significance on short notice to provide timely and effective mutual aid and/or intergovernmental assistance.

But as journalist Joshua Micah Marshall noted in a timeline on his Talking Points Memo blog, it wasn't until Wednesday, August 31, two days after the hurricane struck, that DHS Secretary Michael Chertoff declared Katrina an 'Incident of National Significance,' "triggering for the first time a coordinated federal response to states and localities overwhelmed by disaster," according to the Associated Press.

The NRP establishes the Red Cross as a "primary agency" under the Emergency Support Function (ESF) structure, which consists of 12 "precise components that can best address the requirements" of an "incident of national significance." Specifically, the Red Cross is responsible for the "mass care" element of ESF component No. 6. Mass care services include the "sheltering of victims, organizing feeding operations, providing emergency first aid at designated sites, collecting and providing information on victims to family members, and coordinating bulk distribution of emergency relief items." The NRP designates both DHS and FEMA as the coordinators of ESF No. 6 and stipulates that the Red Cross should be treated as a federal agency in its disaster relief capacity:

    For the purposes of the National Response Plan, the American Red Cross functions as an ESF primary organization in coordinating the use of Federal mass care resources in the context of Incidents of National Significance. For the purposes of ESF #6, any reference to Federal departments and agencies with respect to responsibilities and activities in responding to an Incident of National Significance includes the American Red Cross.

Moreover, the NRP directs FEMA to act on its own authority to quickly provide assistance and conduct emergency operations following a major catastrophe, pre-empting state and local authorities if necessary. In the case of "catastrophic events," such as what occurred in New Orleans, it calls for heightened and "proactive" federal involvement to manage the disaster. Catastrophic events are defined as incidents that immediately outstrip the resources of state and local governments. FEMA viewed a major hurricane strike in New Orleans as a "catastrophic" event when it (via Marshall's Talking Points Memo weblog) proposed studies to formulate a disaster relief plan. The response plan's "guiding principles" make clear that, in these "catastrophic" cases, the federal government would operate independently to provide assistance, rather than simply supporting or cajoling state authorities:

    Notification and full coordination with States will occur, but the coordination process must not delay or impede the rapid deployment and use of critical resources. States are urged to notify and coordinate with local governments regarding a proactive Federal response.

In addition, in a July 2004 planning exercise called "Hurricane 'Pam'," federal and state emergency planners under FEMA's direction examined the consequences of major hurricane striking New Orleans. They reported that the federal government should not wait for requests from state and local officials to respond:

    "Federal support must be provided in a timely manner to save lives, prevent human suffering and mitigate severe damage," the report says. "This may require mobilizing and deploying assets before they are requested via normal (National Response Plan) protocols."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: CarolC
Date: 20 Sep 05 - 01:52 PM

Friday, September 02, 2005
        
JP's Maestri said FEMA didn't keep its word
Mark Schleifstein
Staff writer

Jefferson Parish Emergency Preparedness Director Walter Maestri said Friday night that the Federal Emergency Management Agency reneged on a promise to begin relieving county emergency preparedness staffers 48 hours after Hurricane Katrina hit the New Orleans metropolitan area.

Maestri's staff has been working almost around the clock since Katrina approached the Louisiana coastline on Sunday. Today, the staff is
expected to finally switch to a 12 hours on/12 hours off schedule, he said, adding that they're both tired and demoralized by the lack of assistance from federal officials.

"We had been told we would be on our own for 48 hours," Maestri said.
"Prepare to survive and in 48 hours the cavalry would arrive.

"Well, where are they?" he said.

Maestri said the agreement was signed by officials with the Southeastern Louisiana Emergency Preparedness Officials Association, the state and the Federal Emergency Management Agency as part of this year's Hurricane Pam tabletop exercise. That exercise began the process of writing a series of manuals explaining how to respond to a catastrophic disaster. Financed by FEMA, it included a variety of federal, state and local officials.


A FEMA spokesman late Friday said they couldn't confirm or deny that the agency signed the agreement Maestri referred to.

FEMA Director Michael Brown also raised Maestri's ire when he said in a television interview Friday that he waited so long to respond because he didn't want to interfere with local aid attempts, and that local officials hadn't asked FEMA to come in.

"My response is very simple," Maestri said in an interview on a cell phone after repeated attempts to reach his office. "We didn't have any communications. We still don't have outside communications."

He said FEMA officials have now informed him the first members of a liaison team might arrive at the Emergency Operations Center this morning or Sunday...

...Maestri also was upset with American Red Cross officials for delaying the staffing of shelters in the parish. He said a Red Cross official said he should send a staffer to Mount Olive, La., with a request for personnel. When the staffer arrived, he was handed a note saying help would not be coming until it was safe for Red Cross workers.

"They can go to Iraq and Afghanistan and tell us it's too dangerous to New Orleans," he said. "I've got that note and will frame it with a copy of my resignation letter for the board of directors" of the southeastern Louisiana Red Cross.


http://www.nola.com/newslogs/breakingtp/index.ssf?/mtlogs/nola_Times-Picayune/archives/2005_09_02.html


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 20 Sep 05 - 02:07 PM

LOL. Carolc, are you still going on about this?

Your hatred of W is clouding your judgement.

In the article you posted, they do not disagree with the thrust of the reporting: the STATE prevented them from going to help the dome.

Your attempts to sully the Red Cross will win over no more people than waiving your red book.

Look, i've posted plenty that there were screw ups all over the place and we will find out about more screw ups in the future.

The reality is that people who should have left did not.
People became lawless which slowed aid.
Only the Governor could have sent in the National Guard.

If you want to go back further, i'de be happy to.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Sep 05 - 02:39 PM

Kenner (the western part of metro N. O. between the Airport and the central City) authorized the return of citizens on a permanent basis on Sept. 15, although some parts of Kenner still lacked power, water, sewer facilities. No revision has been issued.
Here is the "welcome," posted Sept. 16: Kenner reentry

St. Bernard Parish (Chalmette area east of N. O., much belongs to metro N. O.) has suspended its re-entry plan, according to a directive by Parish President Junior Rodriguez, upon order of the Governor, because of the possible threat from Rita. (Sept. 19, www.st-bernard.la.us/).

The Governor's order ("State of Louisiana, in conjunction with ground military forces") mentioned in the St. Bernard news release suggests that the State is trying to exercise some control (Most of the National Guard remains under State control).

The Nokia Sugar Bowl (N. O.) has not announced any relocation plans. The Dome is being cleaned, but its future uncertain.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: CarolC
Date: 20 Sep 05 - 02:48 PM

Red tape frustrates local volunteers trying to help in storm's aftermath

By Jamie Malernee
Staff Writer
Posted September 10 2005

Dr. Douglas Barlow wanted to treat the sick and injured.

But relief agencies didn't want the Boca Raton physician to practice medicine -- they wanted him to fill out forms, attend disaster-orientation classes and make sure he obtained special insurance.

Lt. Vernon Oster wanted to pull hurricane victims off rooftops and douse fires from his department's air-rescue helicopter. But the feds said neither he, nor Miami-Dade County Fire-Rescue's specialized equipment, was needed -- even as Oster watched live footage of people stranded by floodwaters and homes blazing in New Orleans.

"When I look at all the people who drowned, I know it's because some bureaucrat said, `We don't need them,'" said Oster, who has trained since 1985 for disasters like Katrina. "They could have used us from the first day out, and they'll need us for the weeks to come. We're ready. That's the tragedy, [and] I feel guilty because I am a part of it."

Across South Florida and the nation, frustration levels spiked this week as many Americans who wanted to give aid to those devastated by the storm said their offers were often ignored, delayed or even outright rejected.

In the wake of such criticism, much of it directed at the Federal Emergency Management Agency, the director for FEMA, Michael Brown, has been replaced as commander of Hurricane Katrina relief operations.

Yet local emergency officials continue to defend their efforts, saying they are tying to manage and organize a massive outpouring of aid in a safe and effective manner.

"When it comes to response and recovery, it's never fast enough," said Frances Marine, FEMA Public Affairs Director for Florida. "There are so many people trying to help, it's a matter of coordinating those efforts."

She added that FEMA's mission is to "supplement" local resources, requiring local officials to tell state officials what they need, and then have state officials tell FEMA, which then looks for the resources.

"It's not top down, it's bottom up," she said.

That explanation gave some little comfort as they watched local Gulf Coast residents and politicians beg for help through various media, saying they were getting nowhere with official channels.

The president of Jefferson Parish, La., cried openly on national TV, accusing FEMA of turning away three trailer trucks with water from Wal-Mart and preventing the Coast Guard from delivering 1,000 gallons of diesel fuel. In Atlanta, hundreds of volunteer firefighters complained that they were playing cards, taking classes on FEMA's history and lounging at an airport hotel for days while they awaited orders. More than 100 surgeons and paramedics assigned to a mobile hospital said they waited for days 70 miles north of New Orleans while officials decided where to deploy them.

In South Florida, frustration grew as well.

Oster, the Miami-Dade flight medic and firefighter, went through his chain of command, trying to find out why their air-rescue team wasn't helping.

"It is an embarrassment to the department and the county for Air Rescue not to respond when we have received so much help from other departments for our own hurricane disasters in the past," he wrote in an email.

In reply, Oster said he was told that FEMA had "more help than it needed."

Barlow, the Boca pediatrician, said the Red Cross discouraged him from going to the Gulf Coast until he jumped through various paperwork hoops that could take weeks.

He ignored them and flew to Baton Rouge on Sunday, becoming part of what he calls the "largest MASH unit" in U.S. history, set up on the floor of an athletic center arena. While there, he helped save a paramedic who was bleeding internally.

"Sometimes the legislators and politicians don't know how to get out of their own way. But as doctors, we know that while you're getting through the red tape, the patient dies," said Barlow, vice chairman of pediatrics at Boca Community Hospital. "There were physicians from everywhere, and we all came on our own. It was phenomenal. It was a hospital set up so quick, your head spun."

Mark Cruz of Fort Lauderdale also wanted to do something. He owns an airboat, and as soon as he saw the flooding in New Orleans, he said, he knew the vessels would help. So he and other airboat owners across the state tried to organize, offering their services to FEMA.

Days passed, Cruz said, and he never got answers as to where officials wanted them to go or when they wanted them to leave. The only thing that changed was the increasing requirements to help.

"When no one knows what's going on, no one wants to volunteer," he said. "I finally gave up."


http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl-cnohelp10sep10,0,4199264.story?page=1&coll=sfla-home-headlines


_______________________________________


Cut the red tape, Lott says
Criticizes FEMA for holding up 20,000 trailers 'sitting in Atlanta'

Monday, September 5, 2005; Posted: 9:12 p.m. EDT (01:12 GMT)


POPLARVILLE, Mississippi (CNN) -- Sen. Trent Lott berated both the Federal Emergency Management Agency and his own state's emergency management, MEMA, for being mired in red tape at a time of urgent need given the devastation left by Hurricane Katrina.

Lott said he has been trying to get FEMA to send 20,000 trailers "sitting in Atlanta" to the Mississippi coast, and he urged President Bush during a meeting Monday to intervene. He said FEMA has refused to ship the trailers until contracts are secured.

"FEMA and MEMA need to be saying, 'Yes' to Mississippi's needs, not, 'No.," the former majority leader said in a written statement.

"Mississippians are homeless, hungry and hurting."

Similar stories of governmental red tape have been reported elsewhere, including a case of 100 surgeons and paramedics hindered from caring for hurricane victims in rural Mississippi. (Full story)

"This is an emergency situation without peer, like nothing our generation has ever encountered," Lott said. "If suffering people along the Gulf Coast, from Mobile to New Orleans, are going to recover as soon as possible, we'll need an unprecedented public and private effort that can't be hampered by a process geared toward much lesser disasters."

His own home, in Pascagoula, was among the thousands destroyed in the storm.

Bush visited Poplarville, Mississippi during a tour of the region Monday. He told a group of community workers assisting in relief efforts that the region will be rebuilt.

"I understand the damage, I understand the devastation, I understand the destruction, I understand how long it's going to take. And we're with you," Bush said. (Full story on his Gulf Coast visit)

Lott said he appreciated Bush's visit, but stressed to the president the need to cut through the bureaucracy.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/05/katrina.lott/index.html


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: CarolC
Date: 20 Sep 05 - 02:58 PM

I don't hate Bush, rarelamb.

And unlike you, Guest, G, and a few other people around here, I don't have a political agenda. I am only responding to the lies that are being posted to this thread by you, Guest, G, and others, and my only concerns in this matter are saving lives and preventing anything like this from ever happening again. Blaming Democrats isn't going to help prevent a repeat of what happened because the problem doesn't originate with Governor Blanco, or Mayor Nagin, as you can see from the quotes from Trent Lott just above.

Catastrophes like the aftermath of Katrina can only be prevented by fixing what is wrong with FEMA and making sure it is fully funded and equipped.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 20 Sep 05 - 03:17 PM

Or...by people heading the mandatory evacuation orders.
Or...by the city selling munis to pay for their own levees instead of waiting for federal hand outs.
Or...by taking the free buses to the dome instead of throwing stones at them
Or...by not shooting at rescue people
Or...by having the 'three days of supplies' that were recommended
Or...by not sueing to stop the Corpse of engineers from work
Or...by changing city budget priorities to bus people out
Or...by storing supplies at the dome
Or.................

Feel free to mention at what point people start to take responsibity for their own well being instead of waiting for others to take care of them.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: CarolC
Date: 20 Sep 05 - 03:49 PM

Even President Bush, and FEMA head, Chertof, have acknowleged that the severity of this disaster was beyond the resources and capabilities of the state and local governments. That's why we havea FEMA and a Department of Homeland Security. That's why they exist. And most of the posts I've put in this thread, including the quotes from Trent Lott, say that in this particular disaster, FEMA PREVENTED local people and others not acknowleged by FEMA from providing help on their own initiative. It doesn't help to have people trying to use their own initiative if they are going to be blocked from helping and/or turned away by FEMA.

Your hatred of Democrats is clouding your judgement, rarelamb.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: CarolC
Date: 20 Sep 05 - 03:51 PM

Oops. That should read, Chertof, head of the Department of Homeland Security.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: GUEST,g
Date: 20 Sep 05 - 04:10 PM

Now I am accused of lies? Good grief, CarolC, I have barely posted here the past week, where, pray tell, where have I lied?

But here you are CarolC, posting news clips 10 days old, maybe more.
How do you know what you have posted is true. If it isn't, I would not accuse you of "posting lies". I only know what I read in the newspapers, left and right leaning, and similar magazines.
Please don't think I have taken offense to your post. Far from it as my posts are fairly bland and it is obvious to me that your "political agenda" is much more apparent than mine. In reality, a smile crept across my face when I read your post. I have been saying for weeks "why don't we wait until all the facts are present before we decide what really happened" and then decide who might have screwed up.

I only know 3 things for sure;
1. The Mayor admits to error.
2. The Red Cross had tons of supplies nearby before Katrina came hit.
3. The city knew the trouble with the Super dome from its use in 1998.
4. And point #3 leads me to quote the National Director of the American Red Cross; "We had all the food and water needed but the local and State officials prevented their issue as 'we don't want to attract any more to this site'".
Oh yes, one more and that is rescue people were shot at and pulled back, either on their own or by order of local officials.

Don't you remember hearing the mayor telling all evacuees to bring 3-5 days of food amd water with them to the 'dome? He even stipulated one gallon of water per person per day as he was aware of the time for 'non-first responders' to get on site. Read FEMA, Federal troops if and when requested, etc.
Don't forget to point out my lies, okay?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: GUEST,G
Date: 20 Sep 05 - 04:21 PM

CarolC, go back to Azizis' post on 02 Sep @ 11:23 which is a quote from the Red Cross site. Then, after reading it very carefully, try again to convince me that the Feds were the problem, rather than State and local people.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Sep 05 - 04:23 PM

rarelamb shows evidence of the usual mis-information picked up by one not familiar with the labyrinthine interrelationships of the various levels of government in Louisiana.
1. Mandatory evacuation orders. There was no overall authority to enforce 'mandatory' orders. The State would have had to declare an emergency requiring martial law.
2. City selling munis- The 'city' only governs a part of the metro area. State and Federal bureaus are involved in changes to the River and navigable canals. Both State and Federal agreement is needed to effect any major change in the levees or wetlands.
3. Free buses to the Dome- Where would the drivers come from? Many paid drivers had evacuated. Citizen drivers would not be insured unless they had a license to carry passengers; in any accident they could be sued 'into the poorhouse.'
ALL kinds of volunteers, including doctors, were interferred with, delayed or turned away by FEMA employees.
4. Not shooting at rescue people- hard to control crazed drug addicts. With 1.3 million in metro, there are bound to be some thugs and crazies. The police and Guard did what was necessary- shoot some of them as a warning.
5. Most people would have had 3 days of supplies except the very poor, who live from meal to meal.
6. I would like to see a valid report about the Corps being sued in this instance.
7.Budget priorities were not involved in the busing problem. Fox put out much mis-information on this. Also see 3.
8. Some supplies were at the Dome, but the place was overwhelmed. It was never designed as a refugee center.

Finally, a personal hang-up of mine about the Red Cross. I remember that during WW2, the Red Cross charged the GIs for any food, etc., that they 'volunteered' to the troops. I donate regularly to the Salvation Army and other agencies, but I will not donate to the Red Cross. Just after the War, while still in camp awaiting discharge, the admin. tried to raise donations for the Red Cross, and the boycott was almost 100%. Old grudges never die.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: GUEST,G
Date: 20 Sep 05 - 04:38 PM

CarolC, go back to Azizis' post on 02 Sep @ 11:23 which is a quote from the Red Cross site. Then, after reading it very carefully, try again to convince me that the Feds were the problem, rather than State and local people.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: GUEST,G
Date: 20 Sep 05 - 04:41 PM

One more thing,
Azizi, don't you think your 11:23 post was the answer to your 11:34 post? If not, just what do you need?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Azizi
Date: 20 Sep 05 - 07:30 PM

The statement that I quoted from the Red Cross' website on Sept 2, 2005 indicated that:

1."Acess to New Orleans is controlled by the National Guard and local authorities and while we are in constant contact with them, we simply cannot enter New Orleans against their orders."

2.The state Homeland Security Department had requested--and continues to request--that the American Red Cross not come back into New Orleans following the hurricane. Our presence would keep people from evacuating and encourage others to come into the city."

****

I'm not sure who was in charge of the National Guard and who the "local authorities" were who supposedly denied the Red Cross access to entering New Orleans.

Even if it is true that the state agencies requested that the Red Cross not "come back to New Orleans following the hurricane" because that agency's "presence would keep people from evacuating and encourage others to come into the city," why didn't the federal authorities countermand that "request"? Surely they had the power to do so, since FEMA was ultimately in charge.

****

Since there are so many "he said/she said" statements and so many contradictory charges & countercharges, it seems to me {and quite a number of other folks} that what is needed is an INDEPENDENT inquiry about Hurricane Katrina and its aftermath.

Why don't the Republicans in Congress want an independent inquiry? Are they afraid learning the truth?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: CarolC
Date: 20 Sep 05 - 10:22 PM

CarolC, go back to Azizis' post on 02 Sep @ 11:23 which is a quote from the Red Cross site. Then, after reading it very carefully, try again to convince me that the Feds were the problem, rather than State and local people.

It's pretty obvious that the Red Cross people are lying to cover their asses. They had a standing policy to no go into New Orleans for safety reasons as recently as July of 2005. They also were not willing to send anyone into Jefferson Parrish for safety reasons. If they wouldn't send their people into Jefferson Parrish for safety reasons, it's pretty obvious that they didn't change their standing policy of not going into New Orleans for safety reasons. They're just saying they weren't allowed in to cover their asses.

The lies I was refering to from you and others are the ones originated with the Karl Rove spin machine and then spread through the use of a wisper campaign and through media outlets like FOX News and others in order to make Blanco and Nagin scapegoats for problems that were not of their making.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Sep 05 - 11:03 PM

Much garbage and distortion on the internet and on TV 'news' services.
A good article on the buildup to chaos is in the Washington Post. Some points are missed, including the interrelationships and divided local governmental authority for metro New Orleans, but a reasonable balance:
City Chaos


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: dianavan
Date: 21 Sep 05 - 12:31 AM

Very good, link, Q.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: GUEST,G
Date: 21 Sep 05 - 12:53 AM

CarolC, your interpretation of the Red Cross statement that they are lying is the most pathetic attempt at covering your sorry butt yet seen in this thread. Facts are required, CarolC, not your sorry attempts at altering the truth. You have really undermined yourself this time!

And Azizi, get a clue. It has been stated more than once with regard to the Federalies not being able to get involved unless asked to do so by the State Government. You and CarolC are candidates for the annual "out in space" award.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: dianavan
Date: 21 Sep 05 - 01:32 AM

According to the link provided by Q, "After the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, an entirely new Department of Homeland Security had been created, charged with doing better the next time, whether the crisis was another terrorist attack or not. Its new plan for safeguarding the nation, unveiled just this year, clearly spelled out the need to take charge in assisting state and local governments sure to be "overwhelmed" by a cataclysmic event."

What part of '...take charge in assisting...' do you not understand, Guest, G?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: GUEST,G
Date: 21 Sep 05 - 07:42 AM

I think I understand it okay. Have worked with it but don't consider my self knowledgeable of all aspects.

One thing I am completely aware of, however, is that EACH STATE has it's own 'Department of Homeland Security' which operates independently of the Federal group. They are responsible for actvities within their respect state, or to "take charge in assisting".
Rumor has it, and please notice I use the word "rumor", that it was the state agency in Louisiana that was improperly identified as FEMA.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Sep 05 - 08:10 AM

Hey, just dropped in to see how Karl Rove's plan of reducing the administartion's role in the mistakes that *were* made into a blame game on local governments...

Ahhh, excuse me but did I dream up 9/11 here folks???

Did I dream up the Department of Homeland Security???

Did I dream up Bush appointing unqualified firends to run FEMA???

But worse than these, everyday that the Bush adminstartion does virually nuthin except pledge money, kinda like they did after the tzunami, is another day they missed the *leaderhip* boat...

Lets get half real here... The coastal region, including New Orleans, is one very dangerous place right now and it's going to get more dangerous as vast colonies of mold set in... Oh, this isn't gonna happen??? Sure, it is... It's happening as folk reduce this massive problem to bickering...

Rove is smiling...

And I don't see and leadership here at the federal level, where it needs to come from...

I ask myself what Slick Willie would have done??? Well, by now he would have in place something akin to a "Coastal Summit" with all kinds expwerts in all kinds of fieldas to discuss and come up with an over all paln for clean-up... He would also have another out-of-the-box thinking group of folks to make recommendation for the rebuiling (or not)/ re=development (or not) of the entire region...

These are the tough questions that only the feds can make seein' as it is a regional problem...

Clinton would have also, between blow jobs, appointed someone opf high stature to come up with recommendation on how the evacuee/refugees will be either assimilated into the society...

This isn't exclusively the Red Cross and Jerry GFalwell's responsibilyt but a much larger problem that is going to nedd mutilevels of assistence with basic needs, job training and decent jobs...

These are the discussions that *should* be taking place and everyday they don't is another day that the Bush administration is AWOL...

Bobert


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 21 Sep 05 - 09:51 AM

The city did send out a mandatory evacuation order. If people decided to ride out the storm then that shows remarkably bad judgement.

There is no law barring the city from making its own levees. It may be better to fund the Corps of Engineers plans (cost 2-3 billion to protect the city proper). Regardless the responsibility to protect your town from flooding rests with the residence not your 259 million countrymen. That is precisely what Galveston did after they had their disaster.

There were free buses to the dome. There were not buses to get them out of the city. Some of those buses were stoned by the residence.

The statement that there wasnt a central command for the greater NO area is a little confusing to me. Why is this a point at all? If you have a city and there are other towns or cities around that city, is one to expect that what happens in the largest city will be the law in the suburbs? If they want to coordinate then fine but there is no obligation.

I'm seeing a very disturbing trend in a lot of posts where some are continually trying to force a centralization of everything. Tyrannies begin this way.

Here is a bit I posted elsewhere to counter the notion that political appointees are just Bush phenomena. The reality is that there have always been political appointees in every department. And I might add it is necessary if you want to get more funding. I don't like the idea but it is the natural result of 'centralizing everything'.

"Here's James Witt

http://www.fema.gov/about/bios/witt.shtm

"He was the first agency head who came to the position with experience in emergency management, having previously served as the Director of the Arkansas Office of Emergency Services for four years."

Did you notice the 'first'.

"Mr. Witt's professional career includes the formation of Witt Construction, a commercial and residential building company. After 12 years as a successful businessman and community leader, he was elected County Judge for Yell County, serving as the chief elected official for the county, with judicial responsibilities for county and juvenile court. At age 34, he was the youngest elected official in Arkansas, and was later honored for his accomplishments by the National Association of Counties. After being re -elected six times to the position, Mr. Witt was tapped by then-Governor Bill Clinton to assume leadership of the Arkansas Office of Emergency Services."

So, when Bill 'tapped' him in Arkansas, he had zero emergency management experience.


Here's Raymond Young.

http://www.fema.gov/about/bios/rd6bio.shtm

"Mr. Young is a veteran of 26 years of service for the Arkansas State Police. He joined FEMA after serving as director of security for then-Governor Bill Clinton, a post he had held since 1983. During the 1992 presidential campaign, Mr. Young coordinated state security matters for the governor's office, working with federal law officers responsible for protecting presidential candidates. As Director of Security for the Office of the Governor, Mr. Young formed a close professional relationship with President Clinton and FEMA Director James Lee Witt, serving as a vital link to the Arkansas Office of Emergency Services and the state's emergency management community."

His emergency management experience has been :
"Mr. Young formed a close professional relationship with President Clinton and FEMA Director James Lee Witt"


IBD (Investors Business Daily) said of Young :
"Bill Clinton's choice to be Southwest Regional FEMA director in 1993 was ... Raymond "Buddy" Young, a former Arkansas state trooper, got his choice assignment after leading efforts to discredit other state troopers in the infamous Troopergate scandal. If a storm like Katrina struck the Big Easy back then, Young would've been in charge."

So there you have it. A couple, in the long line of political appointees. I think it's just a fact of life."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Sep 05 - 10:15 AM

If you live beneath a dam it would be wise to get your ass up there and look for cracks for yourself.

If you elect a politician who runs on the platform of Homeland Security and "I will protect you - the other guy won't", it would be wise to check up on the promised protection.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: CarolC
Date: 21 Sep 05 - 12:22 PM

I've noticed that "pathetic" is a word you like to use against others when you don't have a leg to stand on Guest,G. The Red Cross didn't let their people go into Jefferson Parrish for safety reasons. That's an indisputable fact. They had a standing policy to not let their people go into New Orleans as recently as July of 2005. That's an indisputable fact. The Red Cross is very tightly linked to FEMA. That's an indisputable fact.

The Red Cross stands to gain by lying, and to lose by not lying. Its words and actions are not consistant. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck (and smells like a duck)...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: CarolC
Date: 21 Sep 05 - 12:40 PM

rarelamb, you may be right about the centralization of government not necessarily being the best thing. But if we are going to leave it up to the states to take care of their own, with no centralized federal response, we need to stop paying BILLIONS of our taxpayer dollars to the Department of Homeland Security for that job. The DHS shouldn't be taking our money if they're not going to do the job.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 21 Sep 05 - 12:56 PM

I totally agree. Although, the DHS does give billions back to the states. I blame Bush for the creation of the biggest boondoggle department in this generation.

When people are scared, government will take advantage of the population by grabbing power and passing bad legislation; you can bet on it!

Apparently compassionate conservatism looks an aweful lot like big government liberalism.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: CarolC
Date: 21 Sep 05 - 02:27 PM

Most of the money the DHS sends back to the states is only allowed to be used for terrorism related issues. Very little of it is allowed to go for natural disaster preparedness and response.

I think, if we are going to not have a centralized federal governmental hierarchy for disaster preparedness and response, the states need to be able to decide for themselves how they are going to use their money and resources.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: GUEST,G
Date: 21 Sep 05 - 02:29 PM

CarolC, simply tell me where I can substantiate those "facts" regarding the Red Cross in your 12:22 post.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: CarolC
Date: 21 Sep 05 - 02:31 PM

Right here in this thread (and the other Katrina threads), Guest,G. Just read the contents of the links I've already provided.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: CarolC
Date: 21 Sep 05 - 05:40 PM

The mayor of Houston now finds himself in the exact same situation with regard to ability to evacuate people without transportation in advance of Hurricane Rita, as Mayor Nagin found himself in prior to Hurricane Katrina...

White urged those who did not have the means to evacuate themselves to arrange with friends or neighbors to get out. He said if that was not possible, people should contact emergency numbers to get help from the authorities.

But he warned: "There will not be enough government vehicles to go and evacuate people in all the areas."


http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050921/ts_nm/rita_houston_evacuations_dc


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Leadfingers
Date: 21 Sep 05 - 06:38 PM

Despite the seriousness of this thread , 200 !!!!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: dianavan
Date: 22 Sep 05 - 01:20 AM

From the Miami Herald:

"For Bush, there is only today and tomorrow. Yesterday is someone else's responsibility -- maybe still Clinton's. Even in his White House statement saying, ''I take responsibility,'' he also said, ''Katrina exposed serious problems in our response capability.'' Funny, I thought the 9/11 terrorist attacks did that. It was then that we learned about inadequate communications systems, among other things. It was then that our minds were focused on the incomprehensible and that people -- not to mention governments -- started thinking about the evacuation of whole cities. Bush makes a lousy Boy Scout. Be Prepared he wasn't.

If Bush were the CEO of a major corporation, his board of directors would fire him. It would want to know what the hell he's been doing for the last four years and what he's done with the untold billions given to the Department of Homeland Security. After seeing how the feds stood by while sick people died in New Orleans hospitals, the board might want to fire itself -- but that is not practical. The board, in this case, is the American people."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Sep 05 - 01:21 AM

I hope that the barrier islands, such as Galveston, are evacuated. So far, it seems to be going well (fingers X).
The story of Galveston and the 10,000 or so lost on the island in 1900 is well-known on the coast, so people tend to be cautious.
The current wall at Galveston City is 17 feet, but does not cover the whole island.

*Population- Galveston County (part of Metro Houston)
250,000 total
White 189,000
Black 39,000
Other 18000
Asian 5000
Hispanics (any race) 48,000.
Household median income- $42,000 (county)
Per capita income
White- $25,000
Black- $13,500

Population- Galveston City (island)
58,000 total
white- 34,000
Black- 14,000
Asian- 2000
Other- 6000
(I didn't include Indians, Hawaiians, and other small groups counted separately, hence the disparity with the total)
Hispanic (any race) 15,000
Household median income- $29,000 (national average- $42,000)
Per capita income
White- $23,000
Black- $11,000
Asian- $17,000
Hispanic- $11,000

* all figures roughly rounded off. Not all figures for same year- most are 2003 est., some 2000. Figures from various Texas State sites.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Barry Finn
Date: 23 Sep 05 - 12:12 AM

EVACUATION NOTICE


To: Peoples of the Gulf Coast

Re: Hurricane>br>
From: The Fema/Katrina Group Inc


There's aid on the way. News Briefs #1&2.


If you haven't left yet stay home.


If you're staying write you social security on your arm.




Well, folks have a good day folks, signing off now FEMA.

See you in the spring


FEMA is now hiring: Low level intellegence for high level positions,
Family first

White House is hiring:    DITTO

Family first, connections second


Barry


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 04:32 PM

From Nola.com/Times Picayune:

Rumors of deaths greatly exaggerated
Widely reported attacks false or unsubstantiated
6 bodies found at Dome; 4 at Convention Center

link

By Brian Thevenot and Gordon Russell
Staff writers

After five days managing near-riots, medical horrors and unspeakable living conditions inside the Superdome, Louisiana National Guard Col. Thomas Beron prepared to hand over the dead to representatives of the Federal Emergency Management Agency.

Following days of internationally reported killings, rapes and gang violence inside the Dome, the doctor from FEMA - Beron doesn't remember his name - came prepared for a grisly scene: He brought a refrigerated 18-wheeler and three doctors to process bodies. "I've got a report of 200 bodies in the Dome," Beron recalls the doctor saying. The real total was six, Beron said.

Of those, four died of natural causes, one overdosed and another jumped to his death in an apparent suicide, said Beron, who personally oversaw the turning over of bodies from a Dome freezer, where they lay atop melting bags of ice. State health department officials in charge of body recovery put the official death count at the Dome at 10, but Beron said the other four bodies were found in the street near the Dome, not inside it. Both sources said no one had been killed inside.

At the Ernest N. Morial Convention Center, just four bodies were recovered, despites reports of corpses piled inside the building. Only one of the dead appeared to have been slain, said health and law enforcement officials.

That the nation's front-line emergency management believed the body count would resemble that of a bloody battle in a war is but one of scores of examples of myths about the Dome and the Convention Center treated as fact by evacuees, the media and even some of New Orleans' top officials, including the mayor and police superintendent. As the fog of warlike conditions in Hurricane Katrina's aftermath has cleared, the vast majority of reported atrocities committed by evacuees have turned out to be false, or at least unsupported by any evidence, according to key military, law enforcement, medical and civilian officials in positions to know.

"I think 99 percent of it is bulls---," said Sgt. 1st Class Jason Lachney, who played a key role in security and humanitarian work inside the Dome. "Don't get me wrong, bad things happened, but I didn't see any killing and raping and cutting of throats or anything. ... Ninety-nine percent of the people in the Dome were very well-behaved."

Dr. Louis Cataldie, the state Health and Human Services Department administrator overseeing the body recovery operation, said his teams were inundated with false reports about the Dome and Convention Center. "We swept both buildings several times, because we kept getting reports of more bodies there," Cataldie said. "But it just wasn't the case."

Orleans Parish District Attorney Eddie Jordan said authorities had confirmed only four murders in New Orleans in the aftermath of Katrina - making it a typical week in a city that anticipated more than 200 homicides this year. Jordan expressed outrage at reports from many national media outlets that suffering flood victims had turned into mobs of unchecked savages.

"I had the impression that at least 40 or 50 murders had occurred at the two sites," he said. "It's unfortunate we saw these kinds of stories saying crime had taken place on a massive scale when that wasn't the case. And they (national media outlets) have done nothing to follow up on any of these cases, they just accepted what people (on the street) told them. ... It's not consistent with the highest standards of journalism."

As floodwaters forced tens of thousands of evacuees into the Dome and Convention Center, news of unspeakable acts poured out of the nation's media: evacuees firing at helicopters trying to save them; women, children and even babies raped with abandon; people killed for food and water; a 7-year-old raped and killed at the Convention Center. Police, according to their chief, Eddie Compass, found themselves in multiple shootouts inside both shelters, and were forced to race toward muzzle flashes through the dark to disarm the criminals; snipers supposedly fired at doctors and soldiers from downtown high-rises.

In interviews with Oprah Winfrey, Compass reported rapes of "babies," and Mayor Ray Nagin spoke of "hundreds of armed gang members" killing and raping people inside the Dome. Unidentified evacuees told of children stepping over so many bodies, "we couldn't count." The picture that emerged was one of the impoverished, masses of flood victims resorting to utter depravity, randomly attacking each other, as well as the police trying to protect them and the rescue workers trying to save them. Nagin told Winfrey the crowd has descended to an "almost animalistic state."

Four weeks after the storm, few of the widely reported atrocities have been backed with evidence. The piles of bodies never materialized, and soldiers, police officers and rescue personnel on the front lines say that although anarchy reigned at times and people suffered unimaginable indignities, most of the worst crimes reported at the time never happened.

Military, law enforcement and medical workers agree that the flood of evacuees - about 30,000 at the Dome and an estimated 10,000 to 20,000 at the Convention Center - overwhelmed their security personnel. The 400 to 500 soldiers in the Dome could have been easily overrun by increasingly agitated crowds, but that never happened, said Col. James Knotts, a midlevel commander there. Security was nonexistent at the Convention Center, which was never designated as a shelter. Authorities provided no food, water or medical care until troops secured the building the Friday after the storm.

While the Convention Center saw plenty of mischief, including massive looting and isolated gunfire, and many inside cowered in fear, the hordes of evacuees for the most part did not resort to violence, as legend has it. "Everything was embellished, everything was exaggerated," said Deputy Police Superintendent Warren Riley. "If one guy said he saw six bodies, then another guy the same six, and another guy saw them - then that became 18."

Soldier shot - by himself

Inside the Dome, where National Guardsmen performed rigorous security checks before allowing anyone inside, only one shooting has been verified. Even that incident, in which Louisiana Guardsman Chris Watt of the 527th Engineer Battalion was injured, has been widely misreported, said Maj. David Baldwin, who led the team of soldiers who arrested a suspect.

Watt was attacked inside one of the Dome's locker rooms, which he entered with another soldier. In the darkness, as he walked through about six inches of water, Watt was attacked with a metal rod, a piece of a cot. But the bullet that penetrated Watt's leg came from his own gun - he accidentally shot himself in the commotion. The attacker never took his gun from him, Baldwin said. New Orleans police investigated the matter fully and sent the suspect to jail in Breaux Bridge, Baldwin said.

As for other shootings, Baldwin said, "We actively patrolled 24 hours a day, and nobody heard another shot."

~~~
there's a lot more to this article--follow the link.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 05:22 PM

Today (Sept. 26), Omni Energy Services Corp. announced that its environmemtal unit, Trussco, has been engaged to assist in the cleaning of the New orleans Arena and the New Orleans Superdome under contracts issued by FEMA.
The Company also announced that its seismic drilling division has been working under contract to furnish ... [equipment and personnel] to assist authorities in the retrieval of deceased persons in the Orleans Parish area. Trussco is a provider of environmental cleaning services to the oil and gas industries.

SHARES SOARED 29% MONDAY--- in this company.
Business Week


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 05:51 PM

The New York Times (Eric Lipton and Ron Nixon) article "Many Contracts for Storm Work Raise Questions."
Already 1.5 billion in contracts have been authorized by FEMA. 80% were awarded without bidding. Five contracts are for $500 million or more.
"As of last week, the federal government was spending more than $263 million/day on the recovery effort."
Contracts for manufactured housing and debris removal so far total $2 billion.
Kellogg, Brown and Root (Haliburton subsid.) have the contract from the Defense Dept. for levees in N, O. and military installations. $45 million so far.

Figures all subject to change as many contracts are active.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 07:21 PM

Houston Chronicle, Sept. 25, 2005
"Too many people and no way out"
Feldstein and Stiles

"Hurricane planners have a little ditty that goes: "run from the water, hide from he wind."
It means evacuate if you are in a coastal surge area, but hunker down if you are in an area that will get hurricane-force winds and rain only.
In addition to wondering why there wasn't a contraflow traffic plan, the reporters note that people evacuating wind and rain only areas blocked those trying to escape the dangerous coastal surge areas.
www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/front/3369453


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 07:27 PM

Sept. 8 1:34 "Even in the Bible it says that on the Sabbath you should pull your neighbor's ass out of the ditch."

My mother said, mildly: 'That's 'neighbor's ox', honey."

Sorry, Guest/G. It was a joke. Very funny at the time.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate


 


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.



Mudcat time: 28 January 10:25 AM EST

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 2022 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.