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BS: positive suggestions for disaster planning

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GUEST,mg 09 Sep 05 - 07:11 PM
Rapparee 09 Sep 05 - 07:59 PM
Peace 09 Sep 05 - 08:00 PM
Les B 10 Sep 05 - 12:39 PM
Donuel 10 Sep 05 - 07:45 PM
mg 10 Sep 05 - 11:03 PM
mg 10 Sep 05 - 11:30 PM
dick greenhaus 11 Sep 05 - 09:20 PM
Peace 11 Sep 05 - 09:27 PM
GUEST 11 Sep 05 - 10:37 PM
GUEST 11 Sep 05 - 10:40 PM
Peace 11 Sep 05 - 10:52 PM
GUEST 12 Sep 05 - 04:39 PM
Mr Red 12 Sep 05 - 04:50 PM
Rapparee 12 Sep 05 - 05:21 PM
Cluin 12 Sep 05 - 07:29 PM
GUEST,mg 12 Sep 05 - 07:35 PM
GUEST,G.I. JOE 12 Sep 05 - 08:19 PM
Peace 12 Sep 05 - 08:26 PM
GUEST,Guest, MO1 13 Sep 05 - 08:33 AM
Rapparee 13 Sep 05 - 09:20 AM
RichM 13 Sep 05 - 12:43 PM
Le Scaramouche 13 Sep 05 - 12:55 PM
Bee-dubya-ell 13 Sep 05 - 10:04 PM
Rapparee 14 Sep 05 - 05:35 PM
Cluin 14 Sep 05 - 06:17 PM
Midchuck 14 Sep 05 - 06:46 PM
pdq 14 Sep 05 - 07:03 PM
Cluin 14 Sep 05 - 10:10 PM
Rapparee 14 Sep 05 - 10:30 PM
Pauline L 15 Sep 05 - 01:24 AM
Metchosin 15 Sep 05 - 01:34 AM
Pied Piper 15 Sep 05 - 07:42 AM
Midchuck 15 Sep 05 - 08:10 AM
Pied Piper 15 Sep 05 - 08:20 AM
Rapparee 15 Sep 05 - 09:19 AM
Midchuck 15 Sep 05 - 09:30 AM
Rapparee 15 Sep 05 - 09:55 AM
Azizi 01 Sep 09 - 12:04 AM
Azizi 01 Sep 09 - 12:17 AM
Azizi 01 Sep 09 - 12:27 AM
Azizi 01 Sep 09 - 01:52 AM

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Subject: BS: positive suggestions for disaster planni
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 07:11 PM

I would like to collect input and forward it somewhere.

One thing I think...take an indelible magic marker and mark the names of your children and elders and yourself with a phone number of a relative out of state ...stomach area I guess.    Also make your children and yourselves backpacks with change of clothes, poncho, water, etc. mg


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Subject: RE: BS: positive suggestions for disaster planni
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 07:59 PM

You can get skin reactions from some markers. Buy them identification tags or bracelets instead. These should also include medical info, such as medicines taken, conditions such a diabetes, etc.

The Red Cross has some very good suggestions, as does various government agencies -- but you have to adapt them for your needs and region. One size does not necessarily fit all.


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Subject: RE: BS: positive suggestions for disaster planni
From: Peace
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 08:00 PM

Get a copy of "The SAS Survival Handbook" by Wiseman.


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Subject: RE: BS: positive suggestions for disaster planning
From: Les B
Date: 10 Sep 05 - 12:39 PM

Put www.survival-center.com in your search engine. It should bring up a huge list of "lists" put together by various entities interested in survival. Pick & choose what fits you.

Some of this dates back to the Y2K scare of five years ago, remember that fun ?


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Subject: RE: BS: positive suggestions for disaster planning
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Sep 05 - 07:45 PM

for staying at home

canned goods

kids inflatable swimming pool filled with water + 3 drops of CLorox every day.

lots of garbage bags for toilet.

bring ladder indoors.

inverter that attaches to your running car battery to supply power to refridgerator for 1 week.

music.


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Subject: RE: BS: positive suggestions for disaster planning
From: mg
Date: 10 Sep 05 - 11:03 PM

before you get any stupid bath salts for anyone this christmas, or a tie or whatever, get them one of the noaa radios..or a radio or flashlight that you shake to get going. get solar candles or solar lanterns that you can take in at night. mg


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Subject: RE: BS: positive suggestions for disaster planning
From: mg
Date: 10 Sep 05 - 11:30 PM

Also, you have to not necessarily think of people as victims or people who must be rescued...some of them are resources and with food water and a good rest can be of great help in the rescue operation. Certainly strong men are always needed in these situations. And women too of course. There are lots of skills within any population..carpenters, mechanics, nursing assistants...you would probably be amazed at the skills they collectively possessed...and we have to take disasters into account in planning for educating the youth of this country..first of all, they need specific skills such as first aid, simple construction, but also you need to make sure each and every population, even if is seems they will never get jobs they are trained for,(hopefully not the case) has a proportional number of electricians, nurses radio types, cooks, .....mg


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Subject: RE: BS: positive suggestions for disaster planning
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 09:20 PM

stick with the Federal Government's suggestion---Buy lots of duct tape!


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Subject: RE: BS: positive suggestions for disaster planning
From: Peace
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 09:27 PM

LOL

We carry that--at least one roll--on every fire-response vehicle we have.


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Subject: RE: BS: positive suggestions for disaster planning
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 10:37 PM

Have a household evacuation plan, and know where you will all meet up if you get separated.


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Subject: RE: BS: positive suggestions for disaster planning
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 10:40 PM

I'd also suggest believing the National Hurricane Center forecasters, and acting accordingly. Those who stayed in NO & Mississippi (including my sister-in-law, who admitted this tonight when we finally spoke to her at length) really didn't take the Category 4 part seriously. They all figured it would be like every other storm, and things would be pretty much back to normal after 3 days. They even expected their cell phones to work (they didn't, with few exceptions).


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Subject: RE: BS: positive suggestions for disaster planning
From: Peace
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 10:52 PM

The 'where to meet' thing is crucial. Had an occasion a few years back where we arrived at a house that was engulfed. The scene commander asked the mom if everyone was out. She didn't know. Two guys did entry and two were at the door with an exposure line (charged hose) ready to spray or do rapid intervention in case things went bad, fast. Turns out there was no one in the house, and it put two men at risk needlessly. As Clinton Hammond is so fond of saying, "Running isn't a plan. Running is what you do when a plan fails."


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Subject: RE: BS: positive suggestions for disaster planning
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 04:39 PM

Don't forget an ICE number in your mobile phone.


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Subject: RE: BS: positive suggestions for disaster planning
From: Mr Red
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 04:50 PM

redundancy - capacity for more than 10 times normal demand - of anything. It is expensive in dollars but not in lives. Problem is that until it happens no-one can out-argue the optimist who demands proof.

NOW DO YOU BELIEVE US?


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Subject: RE: BS: positive suggestions for disaster planning
From: Rapparee
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 05:21 PM

So much depends upon where you are. In the desert you'll need more water than in a moister climate. All lists are guidelines, but modify them to fit your own needs.

Use good sense. Why store gallons and gallons of water at home if you have a hot water heater that stores it all the time anyway? Why buy extra food if you have a supply anyway?


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Subject: RE: BS: positive suggestions for disaster planning
From: Cluin
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 07:29 PM

Duct tape.

It isn't just for serial killers anymore.


If I were planning a disaster, I would start with very thin cheap paper plates.


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Subject: RE: BS: positive suggestions for disaster planning
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 07:35 PM

gee..let's rip our hot water heaters out and take them with us if we have to evacuate....they could be blown up, or the water supply itself could be poisoned or polluted before we know it or the house might be on fire....back to the drawing board on that one I think. mg


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Subject: RE: BS: positive suggestions for disaster planning
From: GUEST,G.I. JOE
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 08:19 PM

Ask your plumber. They are called "water heaters" You really dont want to heat hot water..


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Subject: RE: BS: positive suggestions for disaster planning
From: Peace
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 08:26 PM

It is a good thing to turn off fresh air ducts/intakes and also to cut the water supply from outside the house. If you are worried about the water, give some to the dog or cat. Watch them for six hours or so. By then you'll have heard whether biological contamination to the source has occurred.

If the dog or cat croak, don't drink the water.


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Subject: RE: BS: positive suggestions for disaster planning
From: GUEST,Guest, MO1
Date: 13 Sep 05 - 08:33 AM

Don't live in a bowl.


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Subject: RE: BS: positive suggestions for disaster planning
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Sep 05 - 09:20 AM

It depends, as I said, on your situation. Using the water from the water heaters is a good source IF you are at home. Obviously, if you evacuate you use another source. In either case you should turn off the water heaters and turn off the intake valves.

You should also shut off the gas (if any) coming into your house. Turning off the main switch at the circuit breaker or fuse box is also a good move. Both of these should be done whether you stay or leave.

The best move you can make is to plan ahead and know what you're going to do in both situations.

Out here, we could be cut off by a blizzard. An earthquake is a definite possibility too, as the area is seismically active. There is also the Idaho National Laboratory only about 60 miles away; there's depleted nuclear fuel there and a BUNCH of other stuff. The railyards in the middle of town transport things like tank cars of chlorine. And we sit at the intersection of two Interstates, one of which is the main drag from Mexico to Canada -- and trucks are like trains in what they carry.

So you plan ahead: for blizzards, for earthquakes, for a catastrophe at INL, for whatever. Then play the probabilities: is a release of radioactives at INL more likely to harm me than a blizzard? -- No, INL is north and west of here and the winds are USUALLY from the west and south, so that's a lower probability and I'll forgo the dosimeter. Instead, I'll keep some firewood around.


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Subject: RE: BS: positive suggestions for disaster planning
From: RichM
Date: 13 Sep 05 - 12:43 PM

Be willing to learn from others' success in dealing with catastrophe:

Hire Cuba to give lessons in hurricane disaster planning.


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Subject: RE: BS: positive suggestions for disaster planning
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 13 Sep 05 - 12:55 PM

As important as where to meet is how to get there.


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Subject: RE: BS: positive suggestions for disaster planning
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 13 Sep 05 - 10:04 PM

If you evacuate for a hurricane, take your chainsaw with you. Nothing's more useless than a perfectly good chainsaw inside a flattened toolshed with a 50 foot oak tree on top of it.


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Subject: RE: BS: positive suggestions for disaster planning
From: Rapparee
Date: 14 Sep 05 - 05:35 PM

Good advice, Bee-Dubya. My chain saw's electric.

But if you do evacuate (and I'm serious here), be sure to take a couple rolls of toilet paper. As one who has been stuck in a car by a blizzard, believe me when I say that you'll be glad you did.

(My uncle stocked 120 rolls of toilet paper as part of his Y2K preparation. He figured that no matter what happened he would eventually use it, and it wouldn't go bad.)


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Subject: RE: BS: positive suggestions for disaster planning
From: Cluin
Date: 14 Sep 05 - 06:17 PM

Good advice, Rapaire. The alternative is a whole lotta snow or something else that doesn't bear thinking about.


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Subject: RE: BS: positive suggestions for disaster planning
From: Midchuck
Date: 14 Sep 05 - 06:46 PM

Guns. Lots of guns.

P.


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Subject: RE: BS: positive suggestions for disaster planning
From: pdq
Date: 14 Sep 05 - 07:03 PM

abandon the cities

move to the country

raise good children

eat a lot of peaches


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Subject: RE: BS: positive suggestions for disaster planning
From: Cluin
Date: 14 Sep 05 - 10:10 PM

Blow up your TV


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Subject: RE: BS: positive suggestions for disaster planning
From: Rapparee
Date: 14 Sep 05 - 10:30 PM

Guns. Uh-huh. I do hope that you were tongue-in-cheek, Midchuck.


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Subject: RE: BS: positive suggestions for disaster planning
From: Pauline L
Date: 15 Sep 05 - 01:24 AM

Don't forget to send out engraved invitations with RSVP in advance.


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Subject: RE: BS: positive suggestions for disaster planning
From: Metchosin
Date: 15 Sep 05 - 01:34 AM

Make sure that you have a supply of spare O rings, if you're using a propane campstove. It can be quite disconcerting when flames shoot out of places other than the burner.


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Subject: RE: BS: positive suggestions for disaster planning
From: Pied Piper
Date: 15 Sep 05 - 07:42 AM

MrRed absolutely, some people died because they were on life support and the power went off. All hospitals (and any other vital institutions) should have back up power facilities that cut in automatically. The lighting units in my tower block here in sunny Eccles contain rechargeable batteries, which are constantly trickle charged and take over when the power goes off.
Apparently most electricity in this part of the States is carried in overhead cables, which are easily disrupted, and time consuming to repair. In UK cities underground cables do the job and we are a lot less venerable.
A more distributed power generating and storage system to prevent hole cities from being knocked out by computer glitches, natural events, and evil acts.
I did a few calculations on energy storage using pumped water and quite small installations can store useful amounts of power for use in slack generating times and emergencies.
This distributed system would cut down on transmission losses and allow more small scale Solar, Wind, Geothermal and biomass contributions to power production.
With a sufficiently distributed system it would be almost impossible for large areas to crash and with plenty of redundancy would keep working in times of emergency. It would reduce CO2 emissions, be sustainable, and involve a lot of individuals, families, and communities generating their own electricity, and selling back any surplus to the Grid.
None of this is rocket science but it would take the political will and local involvement to achieve.

TTFN
PP


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Subject: RE: BS: positive suggestions for disaster planning
From: Midchuck
Date: 15 Sep 05 - 08:10 AM

Guns. Uh-huh. I do hope that you were tongue-in-cheek, Midchuck.

Well, it was a quote...but, the fact is, if there's a major disaster, and you have no food or water socked away, you'll die of thirst or starvation. If you do have food and water socked away, other people who don't will want to take yours. Once they do, you'll die of thirst or starvation somewhat before they do.

So you may have to protect your food and water by force. It isn't a nice thought. Can you suggest an alternative which still involves surviving?

Peter.


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Subject: RE: BS: positive suggestions for disaster planning
From: Pied Piper
Date: 15 Sep 05 - 08:20 AM

I think the idea should be to prevent your society from degenerating into every one for them selves, though I know the distance to fall is very short in parts the US.

PP


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Subject: RE: BS: positive suggestions for disaster planning
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Sep 05 - 09:19 AM

The distance to fall is very short in most countries of the world, not just in the US.

Peter, I have guns. I have rifles, pistols, revolvers, and shotguns. I have cartridge guns and black powder, muzzleloading guns, and I have the ammunition for them. I have shot and used firearms for nearly half a century, both as a civilian and in the military. I have carried a gun during disasters, as a member of the National Guard. I have experience both as a Military Policeman and in the Infantry. While I am not an "expert", I think that I can speak about guns and their use.

Untrained people think that the mere possession of a gun makes them invulnerable, some sort of superperson, and it will solve all of their problems.

It won't. It will, if anything, compound them.

Suppose that you are sitting in your living room, defending your home, behind a quad-.50 machine gun (or any of the others pictured here). I am outside and have a single shot .22. Who wins?

Answer: Speed's fine, but accuracy's final. And you have to see me to shoot me, and you won't.

Besides, all I have to do is keep you pinned down until you're out of ammo.

If you MUST have a gun, go get one of these.    More importantly, go get trained. Learn to use it well, and most importantly, learn when NOT to shoot. To do this well will take a lifetime. (And if you think a .22 is silly, think again.)


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Subject: RE: BS: positive suggestions for disaster planning
From: Midchuck
Date: 15 Sep 05 - 09:30 AM

Untrained people think that the mere possession of a gun makes them invulnerable, some sort of superperson, and it will solve all of their problems.

You are taking it upon yourself to assume that:

1) I am untrained.

2) I think that the mere possession of a gun makes me invulnerable, some sort of super person, and it will solve all my problems.

You, on the other hand, appear (based on your attributing to me beliefs that I never stated) to think you can read minds over the internet. That would make you a real superperson.

FWIW, I agree with most of what you say, except your rather arrogant assumption that you're the only person on Mudcat who has any training or familiarity with firearms or their capabilities and limitations.

Peter.


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Subject: RE: BS: positive suggestions for disaster planning
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Sep 05 - 09:55 AM

Peter, I very carefully do NOT say anything about you. I do not know the extent of your knowledge of firearms, so how could I do so?

I was referring to what seems to be a common assumption, spread by the dime novels, movies and television: because you have a gun in hand you automatically know all about it and can use it well.

If I offended, I apologize.


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Subject: RE: BS: positive suggestions for disaster planning
From: Azizi
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 12:04 AM

I've been reading the comments on another blog from a woman living in Cabo San Lucas, Baja California Sur, Mexico. That community is facing category 5 hurricane Jimena. The storm is projected to hit September 1, 2009 at 7 AM.

The woman, Nariachi Mama, writes this:

live in Cabo San Lucas, Baja California Sur, Mexico.

We have a big ass hurricane headed our way. It may get ugly, in fact I am sure it will get ugly. I am ready for no electricity, the dengue outbreak after it passes and the lack of tourists after that will further decimate this already struggling community. It is not helpful to read comments that Cabo should evacuate. Where would we go?

Cabo San Lucas and our sister city, San Jose del Cabo are located at the very end of the Baja Penninsula. It's about 20 miles between the two towns, and the corridor between them is filled with resorts and private residences. I am not sure of the population here, but I suspect it is around 150,000.

We can't flee. The only road north is Mex Hwy 1, a two lane that is crossed by many arroyos, dry most of the time, but even with a moderate storm, those arroyos become raging rivers. The drive up the penninsula is full of vast empty places, gas stations are few and far between, in fact even under normal conditions, obtaining gas can be iffy.

Very few here can afford to jump on an airplane and fly out.

I am lucky. I live in a well built house on a hill. Thousands live in low lying areas in shacks made of plywood and corrugated metal, but thankfully the government has mandatory evacuation to shelters for these people and the army is doing that just now.

Yes, I'm ranting, but I have gotten a bit pissed about some of the comments by people who seem to have no idea about the geography and the conditions."

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/8/31/775002/-Jimena-and-me


-snip-

Mariachi Mom's comments refers to this previous dailykos diary in which a number of people strongly encouraged her to evacuate. In response to this new diary, people have been offerring prayers and well wishes to her and to others in that area. They also have posted suggestions of what to do to prepare for a hurricane and survival tips for afterwards. I'll re-posts some of these suggestions on this forum.

I also send my prayers and well wishes to Mariachi Mom, and anyone else who is facing a natural disaster.


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Subject: RE: BS: positive suggestions for disaster planning
From: Azizi
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 12:17 AM

Here are some suggestions that were posted on this dailykos diary:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/8/31/775002/-Jimena-and-me

Jimena and me
by mariachi mama
Mon Aug 31, 2009 at 07:27:41 PM PDT

[I have deleted other comments from those posts]

"Move to the higher ground, get all the water you can get. Good luck. Most buildings use cinderblock construction so any structure on high ground should be a good bet."

by The Raven on Mon Aug 31, 2009

****

"Second on the drawing up water .And if you must stay there, you might gather up severalchanges of clothes and good shoes (!) in some plastic bins or double trash sacks. Hopefully, it will be wasted effort, but shouldn't take much time.

We lived through a huge tornado with 20,000 homeless and no electricity or water for a week, so I'll see what else I can remember. Good shoes or boot with very sturdy soles were essential -there were nails, glass and broken things everywhere...

by texasmom on Mon Aug 31, 2009

****

All the times I've lived in hurricane zones I never got hit by one. What I do remember, though, is that you want to cover your windows from the outside with strong wood and make sure you've got plenty of bottled water and canned goods.

A propane stove, if you've got one, wouldn't hurt"...

by litho on Mon Aug 31, 2009

****

"I'm sure you already know this but while you still have time fill everything you have that can hold water. Put tape over the drains of your tubs and sinks and fill them as well. Centralize everything you will need in your house and move mattresses in there so you can cover yourselves in case the walls or roof are breached"...

Spathiphyllum on Mon Aug 31, 2009


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Subject: RE: BS: positive suggestions for disaster planning
From: Azizi
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 12:27 AM

Here are some more suggestions for disaster preparation that were posted on that dailykos diary whose link I have provided:

"Take good care of yourself; make sure that you have plenty of batteries, potable water, gasoline, plastic tarps, and food"...

by coffeeguzzler on Mon Aug 31, 2009

****

"I hope you and all your critters survive. My only advice when it comes to the critters is let them find their own hiding spots in the house and if they get too upset leave them be. You do not want to have to deal with dog bites or cat scratches in the middle of a hurricane and if you upset one too much it may run outside.

I would be willing to bet the critters knew quite awhile ago that something was happening, they probably started acting weird hours ago".

by Chaoslillith on Mon Aug 31, 2009

****

..."If you have a portable grill, make sure it and the fuel are secured inside a garage or other sturdy structure. If you lose electricity, you and your neighbors will probably have a good bit of defrosted food to cook".

by texasmom on Mon Aug 31, 2009

****

..."Some friends of mine were hit by hurricane Charlie a couple years ago. One of my friends took a mattress and hid in an interior closet. That saved his life. When he came out of the closet, he said that all the walls were bristling with shards of glass stuck in the drywall"...

by RustyCannon on Mon Aug 31, 2009

****

"what we do during hurricanes is catch water!
I emptied all of our plastic bins full of useless clothing and put them out to catch the rain from the roof.
Flushing, washing, and drinking, I had three separate ones for all of those. Silly old hub was very impressed by this.

Um, it's survival honey."

by shycat on Mon Aug 31, 2009


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Subject: RE: BS: positive suggestions for disaster planning
From: Azizi
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 01:52 AM

Here are some more suggestions that were posted on that dailykos dairy:

I wish you, among other things, a
sturdy and secure roof!
by Seneca Doane on Mon Aug 31, 2009

**

But if you have to go up in the attic, take an ax
... or another big sharp cutting tool like a maddock with you incase you have to break out of the attic because of floodwaters.

by AmericanRiverCanyon on Mon Aug 31, 2009

**

Probably a good idea to collect several tools Like hammers, screwdrivers, saws, crowbar, etc. There could be a variety of tasks requiring tools during and after.

by Belle Ame on Mon Aug 31, 2009


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