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BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina

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Azizi 12 Sep 05 - 06:10 AM
Azizi 12 Sep 05 - 06:30 AM
Azizi 12 Sep 05 - 06:42 AM
Paul Burke 12 Sep 05 - 06:46 AM
Azizi 12 Sep 05 - 06:50 AM
Azizi 12 Sep 05 - 06:58 AM
GUEST 12 Sep 05 - 07:03 AM
Azizi 12 Sep 05 - 07:03 AM
Azizi 12 Sep 05 - 07:19 AM
GUEST 12 Sep 05 - 07:44 AM
GUEST,Not scoffing, but! 12 Sep 05 - 07:52 AM
GUEST 12 Sep 05 - 07:58 AM
DMcG 12 Sep 05 - 08:08 AM
Wolfgang 12 Sep 05 - 08:09 AM
GUEST 12 Sep 05 - 08:11 AM
Azizi 12 Sep 05 - 08:16 AM
GUEST 12 Sep 05 - 08:21 AM
Paul Burke 12 Sep 05 - 08:27 AM
GUEST 12 Sep 05 - 08:27 AM
Azizi 12 Sep 05 - 08:33 AM
GUEST 12 Sep 05 - 08:39 AM
Azizi 12 Sep 05 - 08:46 AM
Azizi 12 Sep 05 - 08:55 AM
Bill D 12 Sep 05 - 11:58 AM
katlaughing 12 Sep 05 - 12:48 PM
Bill D 12 Sep 05 - 01:55 PM
beardedbruce 12 Sep 05 - 01:58 PM
beardedbruce 12 Sep 05 - 01:58 PM
Amos 12 Sep 05 - 02:27 PM
Clinton Hammond 12 Sep 05 - 02:32 PM
Azizi 12 Sep 05 - 02:34 PM
GUEST 12 Sep 05 - 02:47 PM
Clinton Hammond 12 Sep 05 - 02:51 PM
GUEST,another guest 12 Sep 05 - 02:51 PM
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Subject: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Azizi
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 06:10 AM

I have been a student of astrology since the 1970s. Through reading astrological books, and articles, and consulting with 'real' astrologers I have understood more about what makes me tick, and why I tend to act and respond certain ways. Astrology has also helped me to understand why certain situations continue to happen to me, and why I continue to attract certain kinds of people in my life {and why certain kinds of people are attracted to me}.

For those who say that astrology is nonsense, I say that you are entitled to your opinion. Astrology is not a religion for me, or a science. For me astrology doesn't have to make rational sense, though it may make more sense than I know. I don't need to know why astrology works for me. Astrology works for me because it works.

Given my interest in astrology, it was only a matter of time that I would seek out information on the astrological meaning of Hurricane Katrina, and its aftermath in New Orleans and the US Gulf States.

This thread provides an opportunity to share thoughts, theories, and information on the astrological, karmic, and spiritual meanings of Hurricane Katrina and its aftermath.

This thread also provides an opportunity to share any coincidences that you or others have noted between Hurricane Katrina and other catastrophies or historical events.

Given some people's views on astrology and karma, I feel compelled to say that this thread is absolutely NOT an attempt to trivilize this horrendous disaster.

I mean no disrespect whatsoever to anyone who has died or suffered loss as a result of this tragedy.

If others post on this thread, I hope that they also mean no disrespect to victims of this catastrophy.

I also feel compelled to say that this thread is not an attempt to broaden the scope of the "blame game" or minimize the responsibility of people who should be held accountable for actions taken and actions not taken.

Having made these introductory remarks, I'll start the ball rolling in my next post, and invite others to join me in this conversation.

Thank you.

Ms. Azizi


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Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Azizi
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 06:30 AM

By far the best online essay I have found on astrology and Hurricane Katrina is found at http://astrobarry.com/

I am taking the liberty to post the text of that entire article which was updated Sep 5 2005.


"Deep Shit

I've been dragging my feet, procrastinating, avoiding sitting down to write. My subject matter troubles me. New Orleans, along with many other Gulf Coast communities, has been devastated.

Luckily, I don't charge myself with that strange modern journalistic duty of play-acting emotional neutrality (or, worse, conveying an authentic numbness) when discussing such truly terrible circumstances. I needn't pretend to be impartial or stoic. I needn't pretend all catastrophic events are equal to me. I love New Orleans, and I'm sick to know one of my favorite places in the world is gone, at least as I knew it.

New Orleans is fantastic, but let's be honest… it's always thumbed its nose at mainstream puritanism, serving as a rather defiantly impolite (or downright scary!) shadow-side to how contemporary America prefers to see itself. New Orleans is a city that drinks and drinks, pedestrians holding their 'go-cups' and motorists heading for the drive-thru daiquiris. The cuisine is so deliciously decadent, you hear your artery walls harden with that fatty-deposit aftertaste as you eat. Dead bodies reside in above-ground crypts, not hidden from sight, while their disembodied souls spook the town as ghosts and goblins, as the polymorphously perverse living beings, men and women, remove their clothes for anyone offering a strand of cheap plastic beads. The witches devilishly cackle in the back.

New Orleans is one of those places where visitors grant themselves the leeway to behave as they never would at home—freer, wilder, dirtier—and then, when they return to their proper and correct lives, act as if none of it ever happened.

And oh yeah, there's lots of poor people and black people, too.

New Orleans, as I've just described it, conjures the astrological Pluto, god of the underworld. Pluto embodies those scary psychological urges within all of us, the ones many have a hard time consciously accepting in themselves. The lust. The envy. The force to dominate or submit. The drive to shove mortally unhealthy food down our gullets 'til we puke, and then to do it again. To get shit-faced and smoke and fuck. To flirt with death, as we fear it. We seduce it. We invite it to our bedroom, then beat it senseless. Our blood boiling so hot, we just know we could kill someone… that is, if someone doesn't kill us first. And in case we're civilized enough to suppress those barbarous compulsions in our own behaviors, evidence of their existence is everywhere—in the nasty gonzo porn, the big-budget shoot-em-ups, the news of suicide bombers and serial killers and environmental toxicity, the lifeless bodies and their spectral remnants.

…For the United States, race and class hang just over and under and to the side of our national consciousness. Like Pluto waiting in the shadows for the right time to unleash the destructively ugly truth, racism and poverty always threaten to soil the whitewashed image of America, dare they bust through the Lohan-and-Hilton-ridden veneer. In our unprecedented prosperity, we can afford to export freedom (in the form of cargo pants, customer service call centers and armored fighting vehicles), yet somehow cannot spare a dime to feed and care for our own people. We parrot the 'nation-of-immigrants'/'melting-pot' line, while unimpeded access to good jobs and good housing and good schools—not to mention the basic right to vote—remains a fiction for certain groups of people of certain backgrounds from certain neighborhoods.

Then Hurricane Katrina hits, and this cover is breached along with the levees, drowning us with glaring reality. The victims being shown on TV are Americans—poor and mostly black Americans who didn't evacuate because they had nowhere to go and no resources to take them there, and who still, a week later, wait for food and drinkable water, if not outright rescue from waterlogged shacks. By the way, this catastrophe zone we can't stop watching isn't in Haiti or some faraway African township, as we might imagine since we've never seen such images of ourselves before. It's here. It's us.

The astrology too perfectly illustrates the significance of what's happened. On the day Katrina landed in New Orleans, transiting Uranus was exactly conjunct to Pluto in the natal chart of the city (first incorporated: Feb 17 1805) at 8 degrees Pisces. This, incidentally, happens only once every 84 years or so.

Transiting force Uranus brings sudden dramatic shocks, abrupt departures from the prior status quo that promises enlightenment in the midst of chaos because everything's been so irreparably broken wide open that there's no possible retreat into former normalcy. Uranus's current position in Pisces (2003-2011) adds particular poignancy, considering its rulership of both the water supply and of oil and gas. Back in early 2004, in describing Uranus's entry into Pisces, I mentioned, 'I wouldn't be surprised if one or more major accidents or disasters affect significant water, oil or gas supplies.' Eerie how Katrina's wrath has affected the availability of both water (ironically, of course, as there's 'water, water, everywhere, and not a drop to drink') and gasoline (which has skyrocketed above $3 a gallon in many places).

And when the Uranus-powered storm plugged right into New Orleans's natal Pluto, it pushed all the shadow stuff up from beneath the surface. As disturbing as it is, there's hardly a more vivid visual representation of Pluto's rising than the sinking streets of New Orleans turned to a river of mucky squalid death, sewage and corpses a floating invitation for disease and more mucky squalid death, hungry dark-skinned marauders roaming the flooded city, looting and raping, fighting for survival or vindication or some convoluted combination of the two. Uranus hit the Pluto spot, and it all came up… the city's dark matter, which corresponds to a matching core inside every of us. Secretly, we all rage at injustice, and instinctively await our opportunity to even the score. We all lust. We all shit. We all die.

Hurricane Katrina and the mess that is New Orleans will not go away any time soon, even once they start to clear the carnage and pump out the noxious water. The pathetic government response to saving its own people has exposed the ugly underbelly of this country's treatment of its poor and its black. Looking at the astrology, transiting rabble-rouser Uranus also triggers the United States' natal chart, forming a jolting consciousness-raising square to its natal Uranus. This is big astrological news for the deep emotional character of the country, and you haven't heard the last of it."


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Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Azizi
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 06:42 AM

Here is an online article that provides some historical perspectives about Pluto:

P L U T O   I N   S A G I T T A R I U S

Pluto enters Sagittarius on January 16, 1995. Pluto re-enters Scorpio on April 21, 1995 and enters Sagittarius for good on November 10, 1995 (Pluto then stays in Sagittarius until 2008). Therefore, 1995 was a year of transitioning from Pluto in Scorpio to Pluto in Sagittarius.

On a personal note, Pluto in Sagittarius involves each person feeling that they MUST find out what truth is for them. Whether this is through philosophy, religion, higher learning, or their own personal quest people will feel a compelling drive to find out the truth.

Since Sagittarius rules politics as well, Pluto in Sagittarius demands leaders who are truthful and have a fiery enthusiasm. They demand leaders who promise that they will not be encumbered by bureaucracy or regulations. During this time we will see political problems and want to set up reforms. One radio station has a motto coined during this time: "Speak truth (Sagittarius) to power (Pluto)".

Pluto in Sagittarius is a time of openness to new ways of thinking, new ways of looking at the world. Commitment is a problem and the side of each of us that wants to be free to travel from place to place or lover to lover is enhanced during these years.

Pluto in Sagittarius, among other things, is the reality T.V. we are seeing, where "reality" (Pluto) means "gritty truth in a foreign land" (Sagittarius). During past periods, Sagittarius has been associated with muckraking -- with opening up corruption. The muckraking today has more to do with physical muck. But people are also demanding (Pluto) openness and truth from people in power.

The history of Pluto in Sagittarius follows. At the end is a summation of what patterns emerge from these periods.

The last eight Pluto in Sagittarius periods were:
1749 to 1762
1502 to 1516
1256 to 1270
1010 to 1024
764 to 778
518 to 533
272 to 287
26 to 42

-snip-

Click HERE to read historical descriptions of Pluto in Sagittarius.


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Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Paul Burke
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 06:46 AM

Nice to see superstition is alive and well. Pity you couldn't have predicted Katrina before it happened rather than afterwards. I'm quite good at predicting the past too, I read the toilet before I flush it.

What's next, and when?


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Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Azizi
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 06:50 AM

Here's two points that I think are coincidental about Hurricane Katrina and its aftermath:

1. Hurricane Katrina struck the US Gulf states and the USA is involved in an "international" war in the Middle East Gulf states.


2. During his administration President George W. Bush is experiencing political problems as a result of his administration's response or lack of response to Hurricane Katrina. GWB's father, former President George H. Bush also suffered politically as a result of his response to a natural disaster-Hurricane Andrew.

****

Do these coincidences mean anything? Maybe. Maybe not. But I do find them ironical.


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Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Azizi
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 06:58 AM

Paul Burke,

There are some people who use astrology to predict events.

I don't use astrology that way.

To paraphrase the title of the article that I quoted shit happens.
And "shit" is a very plutonian word.

It is probably true that I turn to astrology after the fact as a means of understanding why things happen.

As I said in my first post in this thread, it works for me.

I'm not prosletizing here. If you don't uderstand astrology, or if you don't like it, that's your perogative.

To each his [or her] own.


Azizi


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Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 07:03 AM

karma
    n : (Hinduism and Buddhism) the effects of a person's actions
         that determine his destiny in his next incarnation


Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)

You are saying that the people who suffered and died the way they did in New Orleans is because of actions they took in an earlier incarnation? Do not be surprised if people find that grossly offensive, especially those who regard all of this as superstition.

If that is not what you mean, what does 'karma' mean to you in this context?


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Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Azizi
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 07:03 AM

Correction:

"It is without a doubt true that that I turn to astrology after the fact as a means of understanding why things happen."

****

Note that I said that "I" turn to astrology.

I'm not encouraging nor am I demanding that others do so.


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Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Azizi
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 07:19 AM

Guest: I am talking about the USA's karma and not the individuals.

I believe that the USA has not sufficiently lived up to its words and potential with regard to race and poverty. IMO, we have allowed corruption to flourish in our government, and in our mass media.

As I see it these failures can result in karmic occurances such as the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina {more than the Hurricane itself}. The coverage of the 'shit' that has literally and figuratively happened in that aftermath has [to use a 1960s Black power expression] "pulled the covers off" of things many Americans would prefer not to think about. As a result of a mass media which [at least initially] appeared to grow some balls, we were emotionally confronted with horror and death and destruction, and malfeasion in high places. We witnessed or read about the horrendous treatment of the poor in New Orleans' Superdome and convention center. And we saw the dead floating in the streets, and the dead laying on highways, and alligators eating bodies. And hopefully it digusts us and makes us angry enough to do something about what our nation has become.

Pluto in Sagittarius describes death, and shit uncovered. And Pluto {which rules Scorpio} also symbolizes the phoenix rising from the ashes.

Can our nation become better as a result of this catastrophy whether it is karmic or not? I hope so. I know that it has indirectly struck me hard and made me more determined to do what I can to look inside myself and work outside of myself to make a difference in the world.


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Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 07:44 AM

Hello all,

Well, I don't think the non-believers to be any more enlightened than the believers when it comes to astrology. I don't think they should try and hijack a thread by suggesting azizi is ignorant, stupid, or superstitious because of her belief system.

Astrology "works" (if that is how one wishes to describe it) as mythology because that is it's function. Mythology is sometimes superstitious, sometimes deeply philosophical and profound. Myth is the ground from which all philosophies and religions have grown.

Hence, I wouldn't be so glib about it if I were you Paul. It is too easy in this age of uber rationalism to be dismissive of myth and mystery, whether it be astrology, Hinduism, or Christianity. If you knew all the world's histories (rather than just official ones) you would also know the modern science of astronomy does have it's roots in astrological myths. Our gods and goddesses of the sky are known constellations. The ancients were able to track the movements of heavenly bodies with enough precision and skill to create megalithic monuments like Newgrange.

Nothing to scoff at, unless you think you can do better, of course.


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Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: GUEST,Not scoffing, but!
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 07:52 AM

The ancients were able to track the movements of heavenly bodies with enough precision and skill to create megalithic monuments like Newgrange.

They may well have *chosen* to build Newgrange for reasons of myth (though we don't even really know that for certain). However, they were only *able* to build it because of measurement and observation - science, in fact.


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Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 07:58 AM

That's correct, but what's your point? That we shouldn't "accept" mythology because it isn't science? That's pretty pointless. Mythology is the foundation upon which all the world's cultures have built their societies. If you choose to be ignorant of that foundation, it's your choice, but don't condemn people out of your choice to remain ignorant.


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Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: DMcG
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 08:08 AM

it's beginning to get lively here, isn't it? *g*

(I am not any of the anonymous posters, by the way)

Of course all world cultures are founded on mythology. I for one have reason to be grateful for the fact - I gained a place a college at 11 through an interview in which I gave an ex tempore account of four major families of myth. I may well have forgotten a great deal of it but don't assume people people who reject mythology as an explanation are ignorant of that foundation, any more than I assume people who accept it are ignorant of science.


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Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Wolfgang
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 08:09 AM

Astrology is quite good at postdictions.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 08:11 AM

It's also very simple to interpret what azizi is talking about, in mythic terms.

The astrological transit she has brought up is the coming together of Uranus and Pluto.

Uranus (mythology)
In Greek mythology, the primeval sky god, whose name means 'Heaven'. He was responsible for both the sunshine and the rain, and was the son and husband of Gaia, the goddess of the Earth. Uranus and Gaia were the parents of Kronos and his fellow Titans, the one-eyed giant Cyclops, and the 100-handed Hecatoncheires.

Pluto (mythology)
In Greek mythology, lord of Hades, the underworld and also his original name. His Roman counterpart was Dis (also Orcus). He was the son of the Titans Kronos and Rhea; and brother of Zeus, Poseidon, Hera, Hestia, and Demeter. He abducted and married Persephone, daughter of the goddess of agriculture Demeter, causing winter on Earth; Persephone was eventually allotted six months of each year in Hades, and six with her mother.

Now add to those meanings a huge hurricane, a major US city known for it's decadence, in it's path--in a region of the US dominated by ignorance and superstition (Christianity), ruled by the lords of hell (first demagogue Democrats, now demagogue Republicans), all occuring in the sign of Pisces, the sign astrologers assigned to ruling the ocean (through Neptune) and the oil industry.

Add to the fact the "defenders" (National Guard) of the realm were long absent on their emperor's quest (Operation Iraqi Freedom), and hence unable to guard and protect the hearth and home when it suffered a calamity, and you even begin to see shades of Homer surfacing out of the muck and debris.


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Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Azizi
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 08:16 AM

Given my astrological birth chart, for those who know astrology, it's not surprising that Hurricane Katrina would have "deep" meaning for me.

Natally, I'm a Sagittarius with Aquarius moon and Virgo rising.

Some of the astrological placements for Hurricane Katrina are conjunct my natal planets-for instance my natal sun is Sagittarius 24 degrees; and transiting Pluto is currently 21 degrees retrograde. Also, my moon is Aquarius 15 degrees and transiting Uranus {which rules Aquarius} is at 15 degrees retrograde {an exact conjunction}.

****

I don't worry about folks who say that astrology is supersition.
I know there is more to life and science then what we can see with our eyes, hear with our ears, and touch with our hands.


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Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 08:21 AM

"...don't assume people people who reject mythology as an explanation are ignorant of that foundation..."

I usually don't, DMcG. I usually wait for them to demonstrate their ignorance first, and then point it out to them. :)

Now, what say ye to my mythological tale of the Katrina calamity? I spun it off the cuff, without so much as a first cup of coffee I'll have you know.


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Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Paul Burke
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 08:27 AM

In what sense is mythology an 'explanation' of anything? Having got your explanation, what can you do with it? It's on a par with 'explaining' that it rains because water falls from the sky, that it's a hot day because of the high temperature, that Grandad died because he stopped breathing. In short, it's a waste of effort.

Unless, of course, you can predict the next big problem. Which (except for luck) you simply can't.


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Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 08:27 AM

Katrina certainly did a great deal to expose the otherwise unheard from and deeply poor residents of New Orleans. Such folks live in all our major cities and live mean, little lives with great vulnerability to natural disasters. Water flushed them to the four corners of the country. Let's hope the dislocation has worked to improve their circumstances as time passes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Azizi
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 08:33 AM

Here's more on the opportunities that we have to learn from this tragedy {US karma}:

The Triangle Shirtwaist Factory

For those of us who know our history, we can recognize that there are times when the system breaks down, and the results are so egregious that it inspires sadness, horror... and a will to change things.

One such episode was the fire at the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory in NYC in 1911. It kicked off widespread reforms in working conditions, municipal inspections of building safety... and inspired more widespread acceptance of workers' unions.

The disaster in New Orleans... and the Gulf region in general (because the horror stories that are certain to be uncovered in the hinterlands are yet untold) may provide an opportunity for real change.

This is an historic opportunity to challenge the blind faith in the power of the markets and free enterprise to solve all problems. To challenge the notion that government should be small enough to be drowned in a bathtub. To remind people that there's unfinished business in alleviating crushing poverty... and creating greater economic justice in America.

I love that the title of this diary is "Left Behind"... because I woke up this morning thinking about that: the fact that the theocrats are going to blame the victims.

We need to call out our government's lack of preparedness to evacuate the many, many poor of this region on the fact that any plan that relied on the ability of people to remove themselves who didn't own a car... or did, but couldn't buy a tank of gas on short notice... was no plan at all.

And anyone who tries to weasel out of this administration's obligation to have such a plan is the lowest of the low. Have they no shame at all? At long last, have they no shame?
Left Behind" indeed. But this administration isn't Jesus, and this wasn't the rapture. And being poor isn't a sin.


Those who were left behind didn't choose their fate. They didn't deserve their fate.

And those who have been defunding government by cutting taxes on the rich and have been using the apparatus of the state primarily as a means of enriching their friends... and those apologists who have been enabling them... they all need to face the wrathful indignation of decent people everywhere.

It is our obligation to make sure that generational reform is born from this disaster...
by Malacandra on Fri Sep 2nd, 2005 at 07:06:49 PDT

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/9/2/31040/36581

****

For me this comment describes Pluto in Sagittarius.

As some have opined, the USA faced two tragedies-one was a natural disaster called Hurricane Katrina and the other was the human made disaster of the Aftermath of the hurricane.

Sometimes we are forced to face things we'd rather not see. Katrina's aftermath forced this nation and this world to do that. Can we do better than this? I hope so. We have the opportunity to build upon the ruins. But what will we re-build and how will we re-build New Orleans? Will re-building projects benefit the poor or will they provide more wealth for those who are already rich [like Halliburton?]

If the rich get richer and the poor get let behind again imho,
we would not have learned the lesson that we should have from this tragedy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 08:39 AM

That's right! I forgot to add that the calamity being discussed had resulted in a great migration, fleeing the storm and it's aftermath.

Paul, does the word "epic" mean anything to you? How about the word "apocalyptic"?

I think you misunderstand the function of mythology. It isn't to "predict" the future, or state the bleeding obvious. It is to make some sort of spiritual sense out of a world/universe that is often cruel, arbitrary, and incomprehensible but also fiercely beautiful, nurturing and oh so easy to love and lust after!

Not meaning to speak for azizi (she does just fine speaking for herself), but that is what she started the thread to do. To make some spiritual sense, using her mythic belief system, of this apocalyptic disaster, which has been epic in it's proportions. There is no need to belittle her because she doesn't share your worldview. She went to great pains to say she has no problem with anyone else's worldview. So why can't you be respectful? If you think it's all a bunch of hooey, why not be a gentleman, keep your thoughts to yourself, and just stay out of it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Azizi
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 08:46 AM

Thank you Guest 12 Sep 05 - 08:39 AM.


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Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Azizi
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 08:55 AM

In 1970 I wrote this poem

Sagittarius:
to scratch out words
because they have no meaning
and cannot hold
the colors that you feel.
to make designs from ink stains
to mark the silence.
and capture it
then let it go
because it screamed.

****

There are many experiences that words can not capture. There are no words that can convey the depths of my sorrow and outrage at the Aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. This is not only because I am African American and so many of the victims were Black. It is because I am human.

I have been sooo depressed and so angry and so very much wanting to scream because of the disasterious Aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.
Sagittarius sign people are known to search for meanings. Astrology helps me see the big picture. As I have said repeatedly, astrology works for me, and [but]does not have to work at all for others.

It is possible that reading about the astrological implications of this disaster can help others. That is why I started this thread.


Azizi


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Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 11:58 AM

my chart says I am unlikely to put much stock in these things.


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Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 12:48 PM

Azizi, thanks for this thread. You are a brave woman. There are many Mudcatters who used to post about astrology and other spiritual matters, but they often were shouted down and have left off posting much anymore.

I like the way you are handling those who ridicule. Thanks, again.

kat


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Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 01:55 PM

"Sagittarius sign people are known to search for meanings"

and a list of 124,816 NON Sagittarius people who also search for meanings, as well as 271,328 Saggitarians who don't, wouldn't make the slightest difference in this search for ways to apply metaphysical generalizations, I suppose.

We see what we wish to see......I have never seen a serious practitioner of astrology who did not emphasize the supposed 'positive' aspects of their sign to justify their analyses.

ah, well....I am aware that my petty little nit-picking will never sway a vote or change a mind one way or the other.

I go away now.

"Everyone needs something to believe in...I believe I'll have another beer."


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Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: beardedbruce
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 01:58 PM

I believe you'll have another beer, too.


WE ARE NOT ALONE!


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Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: beardedbruce
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 01:58 PM

or, for LH,


We are not a loan, but a gift.


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Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Amos
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 02:27 PM

We are a gift, true; but one from ourselves to ourselves. Compared to which, even the stars may tremble.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 02:32 PM

"were shouted down and have left off posting much anymore"

And Mudcat's never been better...

Astrology... May as well 'divine' from chicken-guts... or fart smells...

What a colossal WOMBAT


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Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Azizi
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 02:34 PM

Bill D.

It's true that I try to focus on the positive in life. When it comes to my self, in order to grow spiritually, I also have to recognize and seek to eradicate that which is negative within me. Astrology is one resource that helps me do that.

Notice that I said "me".

My compliments to you if you have found something that works for you or if you don't need some thing [or idea or philosophy or world view or religion or whatever].

****

beardedbruce,

I agree. We are not alone.

Though I'm not sure that that has anything to do with astrology.


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Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 02:47 PM

"were shouted down and have left off posting much anymore"


not true. They've taken over the mudcat. Still trying to make it into their own image.


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Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 02:51 PM

"not sure that that has anything to do with astrology"

Which is perfect seeing as astrology doesn't have anything to do with anything....


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Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: GUEST,another guest
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 02:51 PM

Astrology. Last refuge of the feeble-minded. If it helps you make sense out of your life, Goddess help you. I certainly don't want you helping me with anything. But call Nancy Regan. She'll listen.

Yeah, I know. It's just for you. HOpe it stays that way.


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Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 02:51 PM

Azzi...if your search uses the stars & planets as 'metaphor' and simply helps you focus on issues, I might wonder why such an arcane & complex form, but I could just shrug. If you, as some do, take Astrology as literal and revealed truth,....well..

(I wish I knew the names of the other babies who were born on the 4th floor of Mercy Hospital in Denver, Colo, at or near 5:27 AM, May 20, 1939, so I could see just how close to MY characteristics they have developed. (....some might hope there were NO others who got this particular set of influences! *grin*)


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Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 03:00 PM

Kripes, BillDee! If I remember rightly, my sisters, "the twins," were born at Mercy, BUT it was several years later, a month or so earlier and they aren't at all like you!**bg** (Didn't know ya were a "native!")

kat


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Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 03:22 PM

Astrology, Azizi, is another of those things I would like to believe in. (And before anyone else charges me with it, I agree it is because I would love to find some definitive order in life, some great absorbing thing I can rely on.)

On the one hand I have seen a number of 'coincidental' events and other things that make me sit up and take notice, for instance, when I first met a co-worker's husband I remarked on how much he reminded me of my brother. He was taller but he had the same walk and he talked the same way, he twisted his face the same way when something funny was said. Imagine my surprise when it turned out that he and my brother had the same birthday!

And I have found over and over again that other Sagittarians and I seem to understand each other without flaw. (And I agree that when one knows someone else's birth sign, one might easily relax - thereby bringing about the ease that I note.)

On the other hand, I am leery of blanket statemsnts and beliefs. To me there is nothing scarier than fanaticism- something that I define as a "knowledge" that one is correct. Questions, to me, are far safer.

You say that this transit occurs "only about every 84 years". Question: What happened 84 years ago, in 1921? And 84 years before that - 1837?

Those are not dates that have gone down in history.

Ebbie


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Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 03:44 PM

Even if one doesn't believe in it, one could consider the possibility that it has some esthetic qualities that some people might find pleasing, like a painting or a sculpture. Even if some people don't like some of the paintings or sculptures in the world, I can't imagine that they would go around with a can of spray paint, putting moustaches on all the ones they don't like. If one wanted to be really mature about it, one could look at it that way.


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Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 06:08 PM

(kat...I was in Colo. just long enough to almost slide off icy Battle Mountain in my mothers car...I guess I was 6-7 months old..) I still have cousins out there.

" several years later, a month or so earlier and they aren't at all like you!"...wow! That sure proves that...ummm...well....


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Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 06:13 PM

wow, maybe it was the 3rd floor! Mercy! I'm surprised I survived! I guess it was in the stars! *grin*


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Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 06:26 PM

Bill D, sounds like quite a story there: "I guess I was 6-7 months old..) I still have cousins out there."


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Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 07:17 PM

well...*grin*..I hope it didn't sound like cause & effect!...my mother's sister lived 'out there' the last 40 years of her life...in Rifle, Glenwood Springs, and finally in Pueblo. Her 3 boys still live in the state. I had an uncle in Salida for a few years in the 50s.

The ice incident was my mom driving to my dad's next assignment in Winter.....the car hit some ice, did 3 slow spins, and stopped with one rear wheel over the edge. She said I never even woke up.


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Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Peace
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 07:27 PM

I don't know whether astrology 'works' or not, but if it works for you, good. (Some folks don't care for music and they feel it has no intrinsic value--but it does have charms to soothe the savage breast.) Just because I don't believe doesn't mean it doesn't work. It just means that I don't believe. Typical POV from someone born under the sign of Maternity Ward.


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Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: mg
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 10:49 PM

I am a Cancer with a fair amount of Leo as I recall..I was born July 9 1948 in Longview Washington USA I think around 5:30 a.m. I like advance planning for this type of thing...I believe in rapid response and essentially martial law and ease up as soon as possible. I believe in problem solving..I basically don't like politics or group think...when people guess my sign they always guess right for some reason. Does any of this sound like a Cancer approach? I guess it is safe to say I don't look for meaning...solutions yes..improvements in everyone's situation yes...but it wouldn't occur to me, as a cancer???? to look for meaning, at least while there is still a job to be done.... mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Sep 05 - 03:55 AM

BillD, if she was in the Rifle/Glenwood Springs area, I've most likely got folk who knew her. My brother and sister were both born in Glenwood. There's on old lady who is 90, living in Rifle, who is a veritable fountain of Rifle/New Castle/Glenwood history/gossip/etc. I'll be going to visit her, soon, if ya want me to ask her anything.:-)

Sorry, Azizi, didn't mean to wander off the track.:-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Pied Piper
Date: 13 Sep 05 - 06:44 AM

That would be astrology pronounced bollox.

What hope for humanity when seemingly intelligent people believe in this baseless drivel?
The idea that people get what they earned in an invented previous life is just fucking offensive. Karma and re-birth was invented in India to justify the racism that put the aboriginal dark skinned people at the shit end of a very long stick.
In a wonderfully evil moral slight of hand, not only do you get your reward after your dead, but it's your fault your in the shit in the first place.

PP


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Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Sep 05 - 07:06 AM

What a rude bunch of horse's asses. You come into a thread about a subject you don't like, just to spit on the people having the conversation.

What jerks.


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Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Wolfgang
Date: 13 Sep 05 - 07:43 AM

Just because I don't believe doesn't mean it doesn't work.

but also: just because I believe doen't mean it works

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Sep 05 - 08:06 AM

OK, we get it boys. You don't like astrology, and you love to insult and belittle people who do.

So why don't you be good little boys, and run along now and piss on someone else's parade?

Well Wolfgang, Clinton, Paul, DMcG, PiedPiper, BillD, and all you other bigoted and intolerant men? How about it? How about you do the decent thing, rather than the indecent thing, and butt out?


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Subject: RE: BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina
From: Paul Burke
Date: 13 Sep 05 - 09:05 AM

Who's lost their rag then? Nobody's insulting you; we are merely pointing out the irrational nature of your belief in astrology. It could be funny, but irrational beliefs kill and maim people- if you don't believe me, just google for witch trials. You are just childish and self- indulgent, spouting nonsense then getting all hissy with people who notice.


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