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BS: 3,000 jobless in New Orleans

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nutty 05 Oct 05 - 11:08 AM
gnu 05 Oct 05 - 12:18 PM
GUEST,Chief Chaos 05 Oct 05 - 12:25 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 05 Oct 05 - 01:31 PM
nutty 05 Oct 05 - 06:14 PM
Mooh 05 Oct 05 - 06:23 PM
GUEST,H 05 Oct 05 - 06:34 PM
GUEST,H 05 Oct 05 - 06:37 PM
GUEST,RC 05 Oct 05 - 06:44 PM
nutty 05 Oct 05 - 07:06 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 05 Oct 05 - 08:57 PM
gnu 05 Oct 05 - 08:58 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 05 Oct 05 - 11:34 PM
Metchosin 06 Oct 05 - 03:27 AM
GUEST,H 06 Oct 05 - 01:03 PM
GUEST,Chief Chaos 06 Oct 05 - 01:23 PM
GUEST,H 06 Oct 05 - 02:16 PM
RichM 06 Oct 05 - 02:51 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 06 Oct 05 - 04:00 PM
Little Hawk 06 Oct 05 - 04:30 PM
GUEST,Peter Woodruff 06 Oct 05 - 05:40 PM
GUEST 06 Oct 05 - 05:50 PM
GUEST,Peter Woodruff 06 Oct 05 - 06:01 PM
M.Ted 06 Oct 05 - 10:11 PM
NH Dave 07 Oct 05 - 06:27 PM
nutty 07 Oct 05 - 06:36 PM

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Subject: BS: 3,000 jobless in New Orleans
From: nutty
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 11:08 AM

To compound the problems facing the people of New Orleans, the mayor has today announced that he is sacking 3,000 city workers as he can not afford to keep paying them.

This seems incredibly harsh (looked at from the UK). Nothing has been reported about redundancy. which surely this is. Or severence pay. Just, if workers have not already been recalled, they should consider themselves sacked.

Any comments?


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Subject: RE: BS: 3,000 jobless in New Orleans
From: gnu
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 12:18 PM

Harsh? How can you pay people without the coin to do so? I would say it's more of a fact than an act.


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Subject: RE: BS: 3,000 jobless in New Orleans
From: GUEST,Chief Chaos
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 12:25 PM

Unfortunately from my experience that's about the normal number for New Orleans. It should probably read "3,000 additional".


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Subject: RE: BS: 3,000 jobless in New Orleans
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 01:31 PM

Gnu says it succinctly.
ALL of the governments in the affected areas are faced with the problem of no money coming in from taxes, rentals and leases to pay salaries of their employees.

Some smaller banks are talking closure because their depositors and mortgage holders are scattered and no longer can make deposits.
Will or will not insurance cover rebuilding? No one knows with certainty whether their property is or is not covered. A lot of court cases coming up.

The loss of economic base in the long run is more serious than the problems of reconstruction.

NO income- NO pay


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Subject: RE: BS: 3,000 jobless in New Orleans
From: nutty
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 06:14 PM

What I was really trying to discover is what kind of support eg, benefits, hand outs, severence pay, are these people and their families likely to get.
Or is it viewed as just unfortunate that life has given these workers and their families a rough deal?

There seems little empathy or sympathy from those who have posted so far.


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Subject: RE: BS: 3,000 jobless in New Orleans
From: Mooh
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 06:23 PM

Isn't it nice that the state and federal governments immediately stepped into the breach and paid their wages? Oh, you mean they didn't? Too socialist, even now?

Shame on them!

Peace, Mooh.


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Subject: RE: BS: 3,000 jobless in New Orleans
From: GUEST,H
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 06:34 PM

Don't make it worse than it is. If some of you are so damn'd upset, start a fund.

They are being laid off, not "sacked". You can't fire someone w/o just cause. This layoff entitles them to Unemployment Compensation which the state will pay from their escrow fund.

Socialist my ass and shame on you. There is empathy enough here. 3000 city workers are just a drop in the bucket when you take into account all the currently unemployed due to this disaster.

This thread is taking on some of the same bullshit that others did when the Feds were blamed and not the city officials. Does it not seem a little odd to you that the city is out of money already. Most run well run cities in the US don't go on a month to month budget. Tax collections are done on a bi-annual or annual basis. Maybe we are seeimg more evidence of a poorly run city.


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Subject: RE: BS: 3,000 jobless in New Orleans
From: GUEST,H
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 06:37 PM

By the way nutty, have you spent much time in the US?
If not, why not shut the hell up and the same goes for anyone else that shares your view and knowledge. (or lack there of)


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Subject: RE: BS: 3,000 jobless in New Orleans
From: GUEST,RC
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 06:44 PM

I completely agree with 'G'. I returned a few days ago from almost 4 weeks as a volunteer in one of the most devastated areas which was not New Orleans. There are hundreds and hundreds of businesses in that same area which employed more than the 3000 you are speaking to and thay will never recover.
Just one example. A guy who had his own construction company with 6 houses under way - every thing gone, totaly gone and the same with his home, his headquarters and all his equipment. He said "I couldn't have had enough insurance to cover it all".

A lack of info is an embarrassing thing.
(I had to come back due to a severe infection aquired while there - will return)


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Subject: RE: BS: 3,000 jobless in New Orleans
From: nutty
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 07:06 PM

GUEST H. I'm not sure that I purported to have either views or knowledge. I was merely reacting to what I had read   HERE and wanted to get the opinion of others.

I admit that my knowledge of such things American is absolutely nil.


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Subject: RE: BS: 3,000 jobless in New Orleans
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 08:57 PM

These threads should help people to understand the situation. Nutty, you are entitled to ask questions. Occasionally you may get a helpful answer. I don't know the 'books' for N. O., so I can only give you a small part of the answer.
First of all, if your income stops suddenly, what are your reserves? You may get unemployment payments, but the city won't. It must depend on handouts, federal and state, and slim reserves for a most a year.

Many American cities have a hand-to-mouth existence; if the inflow from business and personal taxes stops, they are in trouble. All their projections are based on a stable inflow of taxes, rentals, etc. As RC says, businesses have been destroyed and many of their employees are in the same boat. Those receiving hourly wages are the first to go; at best they receive benefits for a short period.
Unemployment insurance or payouts are minimal at best, and this depresses the businesses still operating because people can only buy necessities. More layoffs, and more possible bankruptcies. And no one yet knows if their insurance policies will pay- they never do provide full coverage.
One more point- many cities do not insure their properties and equipment. Replacements have to be paid for out of income. The city has to plan ahead for these expenses.
At any rate, these few city employees are only a small fraction of the problem.

Looking outside of N. O., at just one business- the cattle industry is important to south Louisiana and adjacent Mississippi. Fields have been contaminated, buildings destroyed. Many cattle, of those that survived, are not receiving proper feed and care and are not marketable. Small cattlemen will go bust as they face the costs of rebuilding. Loans and insurance seldom cover the costs of rebuilding the business. Workers will be let go. Truckers, equipment including cattle liners bought on credit, have no cattle to haul and thus no income. Will the bank forclose? After all, the security- property- standing behind mortgages is lost or damaged, and new deposits are not coming in. Meat processors and everyone else in the chain from steer to market are caught.


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Subject: RE: BS: 3,000 jobless in New Orleans
From: gnu
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 08:58 PM

Ah, er, ah, when you, nutty, said, "There seems little empathy or sympathy from those who have posted so far.", I hope you weren't speaking about me. I could not even watch the news coverage. Seriously. Please don't mix facts and feelings... and, worse, draw unfounded conclusions.


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Subject: RE: BS: 3,000 jobless in New Orleans
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 11:34 PM

The State of Louisiana, which has been paying the salaries of St. Bernard Parish since the hurricane, announced today that it cannot continue. It is 1 billion dollars in debt.


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Subject: RE: BS: 3,000 jobless in New Orleans
From: Metchosin
Date: 06 Oct 05 - 03:27 AM

Well one thing for sure, with another 3000 without work in the city, it doesn't bode well for any local service businesses to start resurrecting themselves any time soon. Stuff like that telegraphs. Any layoff is bound to have a further devastating affect on something already incredibly fragile.

Federal financial assistance to keep a city government functioning when its been crippled, would seem like one of the first logical steps.

Seems pretty bizarre to me that if you're trying to rebuild a place, that you would allow the local government infrastructure to disappear for lack of cash. Who's supposed to do the job? Haliburton?


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Subject: RE: BS: 3,000 jobless in New Orleans
From: GUEST,H
Date: 06 Oct 05 - 01:03 PM

nutty, some good, concise posts since yours which offer a little more info than mine and with better manners. Next time, quote a source earlier?
I read your link and see where your media can mislead as much as ours can.    Sooooo, forget the fund and DON"T "shut the hell up".

I still wonder why the city is 'broke' in such a short time span but I have been one of those who doubted the management abilities existing there from the gitgo. So, guess I may be prejudging somewhat.


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Subject: RE: BS: 3,000 jobless in New Orleans
From: GUEST,Chief Chaos
Date: 06 Oct 05 - 01:23 PM

It seems to me that most cities operate on the verge of bankruptcy. With the amount of pay that has been going out to pay for recovery efforts (imagine the overtime for fire/police/ems and other emergency personnel (if not a salaried position). I know from experience that an emergency drill is extremely expensive much less to have to go through the real thing and with no revenues generated at the same time.

I have nothing but sympathy for the folks on the gulf coast. I lived in both Mississippi and Louisiana at different times. We continue to contribute what we can. It's just too bad that the federal coffers were emptied for tax rebates. I thought it would be better setting aside some cash for an extremely rainy day at the time.


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Subject: RE: BS: 3,000 jobless in New Orleans
From: GUEST,H
Date: 06 Oct 05 - 02:16 PM

Should not States/Cities take care of themselves? What other cities suffering from Hurricanes in the past 12 years have run out of money?
Besides New Orleans?

Don't you think the "empty federal coffers" coming up with 93 Billion bucks at the getgo was pretty neat?


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Subject: RE: BS: 3,000 jobless in New Orleans
From: RichM
Date: 06 Oct 05 - 02:51 PM

Workers from out of state have been coming in to do clean up work. As well as getting paid, I assume they are provided accommodations.

Would it not be reasonable for FEMA or whichever agencies are responsible, be urged to hire local municipal employees who have been laid off by the Cities affected?


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Subject: RE: BS: 3,000 jobless in New Orleans
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Oct 05 - 04:00 PM

Florida, etc., DID get federal aid for past severe hurricanes. Andre in 1992 cost the federal government (and us) roughly 25 billion.

Orleans Parish 2003 businesses-
10,460 businesses, 208,285 employees, payroll 7 billion.

RichM, the FEMA strategy seems to be - contract with the big boys such as Halliburton and whom they subcontract uses their employees or hires. Locals get short shrift.


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Subject: RE: BS: 3,000 jobless in New Orleans
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Oct 05 - 04:30 PM

If you live only for money, people suffer and people die.

That's why every society needs some socialism, specially in time of great emergency.

A family that lived only for money would only feed the kids if they paid for every meal. That is called child-abuse.

A society IS a large, extended family. (as is the whole human race)


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Subject: RE: BS: 3,000 jobless in New Orleans
From: GUEST,Peter Woodruff
Date: 06 Oct 05 - 05:40 PM

We won't let Bush downpay reconstruction jobs in New Orleans. Join the Democratic Party and fight this outrage.

Peter


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Subject: RE: BS: 3,000 jobless in New Orleans
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Oct 05 - 05:50 PM

Rrrrrright Peter, The Dems have so much authority these days.


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Subject: RE: BS: 3,000 jobless in New Orleans
From: GUEST,Peter Woodruff
Date: 06 Oct 05 - 06:01 PM

More than YOU think!

Peter


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Subject: RE: BS: 3,000 jobless in New Orleans
From: M.Ted
Date: 06 Oct 05 - 10:11 PM

"Should not States/Cities take care of themselves? " Sounds a bit like, "Am I my Brother's keeper?"--


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Subject: RE: BS: 3,000 jobless in New Orleans
From: NH Dave
Date: 07 Oct 05 - 06:27 PM

Here in the US, there are many states that do not have a, "Right to Work Law" on the books, which means any employer can fire you, without cause, with little recourse left to you. In cases where no wrong doing was cited/alleged, that State's Department of Employment Services, the name varies from state to state, will provide the redundant worker with a small portion of his previous wages while he looks for other work, or work in another sector of his type work. Although the monies to pay these benefits comes indirectly from the coffers of the employers in the state, this is not enough reason to keep a person on a particular job if the need for this work ceases, or they can no longer afford to hire N number of that skill and experience.

How this affects the workers depends on the strength of their union, if any, and what type of a contract the union has managed to extract from the employer. Currently there has been some information about a couple of the US Airlines who may be going in to bankruptcy, and will no longer be able to fund retirement benefits previously guaranteed to their workers. This was one of the criteria a friend who had worked as a union organizer had to consider before she started to unionize a company or plant. If the company can't afford to pay a higher wage to their people, there is little use trying to organize the company or plant.

In the case of New Orleans, the distinction between being made redundant or fired is moot as these people are still on the sidewalks, looking in to their former jobs, and may not be able to successfully claim unemployment benefits, if the state of Louisiana is nearing bankruptcy itself. While recovery firms like Halliburton might have the need with people with the skill sets of some of these city workers who were fired, they will probably bring their own workers in. Like any other big corporation, they have to provide employment to all of their people to keep them from being laid off as well, and they'd prefer to deal with people they know than people they don't.

Dave


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Subject: RE: BS: 3,000 jobless in New Orleans
From: nutty
Date: 07 Oct 05 - 06:36 PM

Thank-you for trying to explain. It is indeed a difficult situation and certainly one that further depresses people who have already lost so much.

"Normality" seems a long way off despite all the rhetoric of people like the mayor of New Orleans.


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