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BS: Black looters, white finders

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Wolfgang 01 Sep 05 - 10:21 AM
jacqui.c 01 Sep 05 - 10:24 AM
Wesley S 01 Sep 05 - 10:27 AM
gnu 01 Sep 05 - 10:28 AM
mack/misophist 01 Sep 05 - 10:43 AM
GUEST,Lighter at work 01 Sep 05 - 10:45 AM
Paul Burke 01 Sep 05 - 10:57 AM
M.Ted 01 Sep 05 - 11:29 AM
Rapparee 01 Sep 05 - 11:35 AM
Stilly River Sage 01 Sep 05 - 11:36 AM
Greg F. 01 Sep 05 - 11:50 AM
dianavan 01 Sep 05 - 11:50 AM
GUEST,Guy Who Thinks 01 Sep 05 - 12:14 PM
Donuel 01 Sep 05 - 12:17 PM
GUEST 01 Sep 05 - 12:20 PM
George Papavgeris 01 Sep 05 - 12:25 PM
Jeri 01 Sep 05 - 12:49 PM
GUEST,Guy Who Thinks 01 Sep 05 - 12:49 PM
Rapparee 01 Sep 05 - 12:57 PM
John Routledge 01 Sep 05 - 12:59 PM
Donuel 01 Sep 05 - 01:04 PM
GUEST,fretless 01 Sep 05 - 01:12 PM
PoppaGator 01 Sep 05 - 01:21 PM
Peter K (Fionn) 01 Sep 05 - 01:23 PM
GUEST,Pseudolus at work 01 Sep 05 - 01:31 PM
Cluin 01 Sep 05 - 01:34 PM
GUEST,Pseudolus at work 01 Sep 05 - 01:39 PM
TIA 01 Sep 05 - 01:49 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 01 Sep 05 - 02:14 PM
Little Hawk 01 Sep 05 - 03:02 PM
Bill D 01 Sep 05 - 03:12 PM
Stilly River Sage 01 Sep 05 - 03:17 PM
Little Hawk 01 Sep 05 - 03:19 PM
Cluin 01 Sep 05 - 03:20 PM
Liz the Squeak 01 Sep 05 - 04:56 PM
GUEST,Jon 01 Sep 05 - 05:11 PM
GUEST,Guy Who Thinks 01 Sep 05 - 05:19 PM
Azizi 01 Sep 05 - 05:50 PM
nutty 01 Sep 05 - 06:10 PM
George Papavgeris 01 Sep 05 - 06:15 PM
GUEST,Guy Who Thinks 01 Sep 05 - 06:22 PM
Jeri 01 Sep 05 - 06:29 PM
Little Hawk 01 Sep 05 - 06:33 PM
greg stephens 01 Sep 05 - 06:41 PM
nutty 01 Sep 05 - 06:41 PM
Stilly River Sage 01 Sep 05 - 06:46 PM
Greg F. 01 Sep 05 - 06:49 PM
GUEST,Jon 01 Sep 05 - 06:51 PM
artbrooks 01 Sep 05 - 06:53 PM
Stilly River Sage 01 Sep 05 - 06:55 PM

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Subject: BS: Black looters, white finders
From: Wolfgang
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 10:21 AM

One of my pet peeves is language and what is hidden in certain words. For instance, all through the years of civil war in Lebanon the Muslim paramilitaries were "left-radical" and the Christian paramilitaries were "right-leaning". I just want to show you a recent example from the hurrican aftermath:

Picture 1   Picture 2

At the first glance both situations look quite similar, people carrying things they need to survive.

At the second glance and with reading the captions one sees the difference: The two white people have found what they carry, the black person has looted was he carries.

Either there is an innocent interpretation and the writer of the captions knows more than can be seen in the pictures or there's a bit of everyday racism showing in the choice of words.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Black looters, white finders
From: jacqui.c
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 10:24 AM

I hope that there was more to the story than the pictures suggest, but I do agree with you Wolfgang.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black looters, white finders
From: Wesley S
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 10:27 AM

Excellet examples. Thanks.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black looters, white finders
From: gnu
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 10:28 AM

Looting a grocery store? Absolutely outrageous. Whoever wrote that should be thrown in that water to help that lad.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black looters, white finders
From: mack/misophist
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 10:43 AM

It is th deep south. This sort of thing is to be expected, unfortunately.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black looters, white finders
From: GUEST,Lighter at work
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 10:45 AM

You make an excellent point, Wolfgang. That kind of prejudicial "slant" by loanguage is always possible, and may always be used unscrupulously.

But nowadays American journalists are taught early on to be very careful about unconscious prejudice in language, not to mention being as accurate as possible in reporting what they see That wasn't always the case, but has been for at least the past thirty years. I suspect that the photographer asked the people where they got the stuff, and one said "Um, we found it outside the store" and the other, maybe more truthfully, said "Everybody was grabbing things so I just took what I needed."

Naturally I don't know for sure. Anyway, the caption writer had no right, under current professional standards, to assume what the "facts" were. He or she is supposed to rely on the word of the reporter, who is supposed to report only what he sees and hears.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black looters, white finders
From: Paul Burke
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 10:57 AM

Finders keepers, looters weepers?


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Subject: RE: BS: Black looters, white finders
From: M.Ted
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 11:29 AM

Lots of ways to look at this, but the thing that strikes me is that, in the face of enormity, Wolfgang is looking for signs of racism.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black looters, white finders
From: Rapparee
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 11:35 AM

Mississippi has already issued a "shoot looters" order, I understand. As NO is evacuated the same will be done -- there WILL be martial law declared there and elsewhere I'm certain.

I very much object to branding anyone as a looter if they are taking what is needed for survival. I don't object to dealing with those who take televisions, etc. in an appropriate manner -- and I understand that rescue helicopters have been fired upon in NO.

Having served in the National Guard during floods on the Mississippi, I can assure you that 1) it's no picnic at all! and 2) looters and sightseers cause more problems than you'd think -- survivors are generally okay, but true looters are dangerous and liable to shoot if you call them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black looters, white finders
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 11:36 AM

None of them looks like they're going to be enjoying the materials they "found." I agree with Wolfgang--someone is weighting those captions with bigotted cultural baggage.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black looters, white finders
From: Greg F.
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 11:50 AM

Racism? In MISSISSIPPI? Ya think?

Mississippi has always had a de facto "Shoot The Niggers" order in operation.

Nothing new here- unfortunately. Sure am glad the U.S. is in Iraq to "promote freedom".



I'm so damned proud to be an AMERICAN I could just shit


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Subject: RE: BS: Black looters, white finders
From: dianavan
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 11:50 AM

You're right about that, Wolfgang!

Whether the captions are right or not, they all look pretty innocent to me. Was the boy a looter? Were the pair looters? Under the circumstances, nobody knows. Were there arrests and a trial? Doubtful.

Even if the boy was a looter, I don't think anyone would begrudge him what he has in his possession. He certainly would not deserve to be shot.

Its plain out and out prejudice that occurs all the time in the U.S., especially the deep South.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black looters, white finders
From: GUEST,Guy Who Thinks
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 12:14 PM

Would you please provide a reference for the claim that the Governor of Mississippi has ordered looters to be shot on sight?

I see nothing on the Internet.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black looters, white finders
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 12:17 PM

Wolfgang, I fear that language of looters vs. finders is the tip of the iceberg. If rescue can be delayed just another 5 days there will be no "dangerous element" left to rescue. I believe the blacks already know this.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black looters, white finders
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 12:20 PM

The first picture shows a boy/child possibly carrying a bag of nappies. That caption editor must be a really nice guy. Not.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black looters, white finders
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 12:25 PM

Excellent examples, Wolfgang.
M.Ted, I understand how you feel, but cut Wolfgang some slack. There is little he (or most of us) can do than observe at the moment. One could equally argue that some journalists, in the face of enormity, coninue carrying the same grudges.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black looters, white finders
From: Jeri
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 12:49 PM

Comparing two different photos taken by two different people on two different days and captioned by different people. Who are you criticizing, Wolfgang?

Yes, there's racism. There's always racism. There's sexism too, and the 'looter' was a lone male instead of a couple. There's classism, and perhaps the young man was in a poorer section of town, or maybe the couple was foraging in a classier demolished store.

Maybe one captioner was pissed off at the looting and maybe the other one was more tolerant.

The captions take a dangerous amount of assumption about people's motives. Then again, Wolfgang's assumption that racism is the reason for the different captions is probably based on even less actual knowledge. Might be racism, might not be, but Wolfgang ought to know that a sample size of 2 isn't representative.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black looters, white finders
From: GUEST,Guy Who Thinks
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 12:49 PM

Would you please provide your evidence of a genocidal plot?

It is physically impossible to save 100,000 people in a very few days when the only access is by helicopter and small boat.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black looters, white finders
From: Rapparee
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 12:57 PM

Oh fer chrissakes!

I know people in the South, the Deep South, who are no more prejudiced than I am. People who don't give a shit what color your skin is, who care more about what you've done and who you are than....

People down there are in terrible trouble. I've seen this kind of trouble, I've worked with folks in this kind of trouble.

Please stop acting as if this was some sort of Political Plot and do what you can to help.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black looters, white finders
From: John Routledge
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 12:59 PM

Would the first caption have been the same if the boy was white and there was evidence that he had been looting?


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Subject: RE: BS: Black looters, white finders
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 01:04 PM

Yes it is impossible to rescue 100,000 in 3 days but it still doesn't keep me from wishing it weren't true and that the $40 billion strong Homeland security ageency could respond within 5 days.
What about 8 days?
time will tell.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black looters, white finders
From: GUEST,fretless
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 01:12 PM

Of course there's racism reflected in the captions. It is part of the larger picture that has media talking/writing about "those who chose to stay behind" as if the people suffering in N.O. made a pig-headed choice when offered the option of departure and are suffering the consequences of their own stupidity; rather than recongizing that for many members of the underclass, the option of before-the-storm-departure was out of the question because of lack of funds for car ownership, fuel if there were cars available, hotel/accommodation costs if they left, etc. And are we to believe that the group that stayed behind (or, with perhaps equal accuracy, the group that couldn't afford to get away) is predominantly black on the basis of some miracle or odd coincidence rather than because of race based economic structures that have their roots in the era of enslavement and institutionalized Jim Crow practices? Gimmie a break.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black looters, white finders
From: PoppaGator
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 01:21 PM

Wolfgang is on the money.

How can people be trained not to express their unconscious prejudices? One woman on CNN, in particular, has been driving me nuts ~ she is so full of racial hatred (unconsicous, I'm sure, and expressed only obliquely) that I almost had to scream.

There is definitely criminal activity going on, but taking food (that will be going bad soon anyway) out of grocery stores does not fit that category.

New Orleans has its share of thugs ands criminals, and after everyone with a working vehicle and a credit card had left town, the gangbanger portion of the population shot up from maybe 1% of a million people to a good 20% of the remaining thousands. Also, the most skillful criminals left town in their Lincoln Navigators along with the rest of us. The people left in town are almost all black and almost all very poor ~ and the amoral characters among them are very dangerous people indeed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black looters, white finders
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 01:23 PM

M Ted's got a point. What harm can a bit of innocent nigger-kicking do any in the middle of a national catastrophe?


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Subject: RE: BS: Black looters, white finders
From: GUEST,Pseudolus at work
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 01:31 PM

Peter K,
   Innocent nigger-kicking????? Are you serious?


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Subject: RE: BS: Black looters, white finders
From: Cluin
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 01:34 PM

You forgot your smiley, PeterK. Some people can't recognize sarcasm or irony or litotes without one.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black looters, white finders
From: GUEST,Pseudolus at work
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 01:39 PM

Sorry if I overreacted, not quite ready to joke about this yet....


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Subject: RE: BS: Black looters, white finders
From: TIA
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 01:49 PM

That's rather black humour.



Okay, now I'm doing it.....


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Subject: RE: BS: Black looters, white finders
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 02:14 PM

Someone needs to make a distinction between foraging (scavenging) for survival, and looting for gain.

IMHO, anyone, black white or green, who takes food or water, or everyday clothing to survive, should not be classed as a looter.

TV sets, jewelry, and other non survival items with monetary value would seem to be the likely targets for looters.

Conscious or not, the element of prejudice inherent in these pictures leaves a nasty taste in the mouth.

Wolfgang has a point, as neither party seems likely to gain more than warmth and nourishment from their "finds".

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black looters, white finders
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 03:02 PM

Hmmm. Well, could be like you say, Wolfgang. Could be...

That is one hell of a bad situation down there, and there are always a few people (black or white) who become very dangerous under such circumstances. It only takes a few. They make it hell for the rest.

I'm glad I'm not there in the middle of it, I can tell you that. It will probably get worse before it gets better, and the very fact that the poorer segment of that urban society is more predominantly black will lead to a perception in many that "blacks" are lawless and violent people... That perception was already present to some extent in, I would guess, a very large number of middle-class whites, and not just in the South! (It's all over the USA and even in Canada, to some extent...that same perception. Middle class whites tend to be afraid of younger black men whom they don't know personally. I kid you not. They almost always get along fine with those whom they do know personally.)

That perception has always been present in regards to poor people of any particular group in any society. Example: the Irish were regarded that way in the middle to late 1800's. Hispanic immigrants to the USA are often regarded in that way. So it goes. When you're poor you are living a lot closer to the edge. That fosters desperation and lawlessness in some individuals, and that creates a bad impression of a whole group of people in the minds of others who happen to be more privileged (not because they're better, just because of where they grew up, in most cases).

So what are we to do about it...as long as society is divided into rich, middle class, and poor? Gross inequality breeds resentment, fear, violence and hatred. Gross inequality perpetuates its evils by passing them on to each succeeding generation. It always has, and it always will. It stigmatizes people from the earliest age. If I'd been born black, in Watts or some other very poor inner city neighbourhood, I'd be dealing with that...or I might already be dead because of it.

You are commenting, Wolfgang, upon an outer symptom of what is blatantly obvious...and virtually inevitable, given the prevailing social system. It's really what amounts to a caste system...only your caste is determined by your bank account. If you're O.J. Simpson, being black can sometimes be quite an advantage, let me tell you! You can get away with murder in that case...


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Subject: RE: BS: Black looters, white finders
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 03:12 PM

"One woman on CNN, in particular, has been driving me nuts.."

indeed! CNN seems to have decided they needed their OWN sanctimonious blond haranguer in PrimeTime to match the one they've been borrowing from the CourtTV channel and using on Headline News.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black looters, white finders
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 03:17 PM

Sep. 01, 2005
link (may require free logon)
New Orleans police told to stop looters

By Robert Tanner, The Associated Press

NEW ORLEANS - Managers at the Covenant Home nursing center were prepared to cope with power outages and supply shortages following Hurricane Katrina. They weren't ready for looters.

The nursing home lost its bus after the driver surrendered it to carjackers. Groups of people then drove by the center, shouting to residents, "Get out!"

On Wednesday, 80 residents, most of them in wheelchairs, were evacuated to other nursing homes in the state.

"We had excellent plans. We had enough food for 10 days," said Peggy Hoffman, the home's executive director. "Now we'll have to equip our department heads with guns and teach them how to shoot."

Looters around New Orleans spent another day Wednesday threatening survivors and ransacking stores. Some were desperate for food - others just wanted beer and TVs.

The risk to safety prompted Mayor Ray Nagin to order virtually all the city's 1,500 police officers to leave their search-and-rescue mission and return to the streets to stop the thefts that turned more hostile as the city plunged deeper into chaos.

"They are starting to get closer to heavily populated areas - hotels, hospitals, and we're going to stop it right now," Nagin said in a statement to The Associated Press.

Amid the turmoil Wednesday, thieves commandeered a forklift and used it to push up the storm shutters and break the glass of a pharmacy. A crowd stormed the store, carrying out so much ice, water and food that it dropped from their arms as they ran. The street was littered with packages of ramen noodles and other items.

New Orleans' homeland security chief, Terry Ebbert, said looters were breaking into stores all over town and stealing guns. He said there are gangs of armed men moving around the city. At one point, officers stranded on the roof of a hotel were fired at by people on the street.

Authorities said another officer was shot in the head and a looter was wounded in a shootout. Both were expected to survive.

Looters also chased down a state police truck full of food. The New Orleans police chief ran off looters while city officials themselves were commandeering equipment from a looted Office Depot. During a state of emergency, authorities have broad powers to take private supplies and buildings for their use.

Tenet Healthcare Corp. said late Wednesday that it would evacuate one of its fully functioning hospitals in Gretna after a supply truck carrying food, water, medical supplies and pharmaceuticals was held up by gunmen. The hospital has about 350 staff members and 125 to 150 patients.

"There are physical threats to safety from roving bands of armed individuals with weapons who are threatening the safety of the hospital," spokesman Steven Campanini said.

In another incident, two officers drew their guns on looters, but the thieves left without incident. One of the officers said he was not going to arrest anyone for snatching up food and water.

"It's really difficult because my opinion of the looting is it started with people running out of food, and you can't really argue with that too much," Nagin said. "Then it escalated to this kind of mass chaos where people are taking electronic stuff and all that."

Gov. Kathleen Blanco said she has asked the White House to send more people to help with evacuations and rescues, thereby freeing up National Guardsmen to stop looters.

An additional 10,000 National Guard troops from across the country began pouring into the Gulf Coast on Wednesday to shore up security, rescue and relief operations. The new units brought the number of troops dedicated to the effort to more than 28,000, in what may be the largest military response to a natural disaster.

"We will restore law and order," Blanco said. "What angers me the most is that disasters like this often bring out the worst in people. I will not tolerate this kind of behavior."


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Subject: RE: BS: Black looters, white finders
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 03:19 PM

Watching CNN is its own punishment.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black looters, white finders
From: Cluin
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 03:20 PM

Amen to that, LH.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black looters, white finders
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 04:56 PM

If you look at the rest of the article and not just the pictures, you will see a link to an apology from YahooNews about the captions. Many people all over the world have complained about the use of different descriptions for what is apparently the same action, and an apology was published.

Don't be so sure that PeterK(Fionn) meant it as a joke..... his idea of what is racist is very different to most others...

LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: Black looters, white finders
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 05:11 PM

From Yahoo:

To make this volume of photos available in a timely manner, we present the photos and their captions as written, edited and distributed by the news services with no additional editing at Yahoo! News.

In recent days, a number of readers of Yahoo! News have commented on differences in the language in two Hurricane Katrina-related photo captions (from two news services).

Yahoo! News regrets that these photos and captions, viewed together, may suggest a racial bias on our part. We remain committed to bringing our readers the full collection of photos as transmitted by our wire service partners.


My reading of that is Jeri was right above.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black looters, white finders
From: GUEST,Guy Who Thinks
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 05:19 PM

Interesting story, SLS. There's nothing in it about orders to shoot looters, or any indication that more than one looter was shot during a "shootout."

Nothing about orders to shoot looters in Mississippi either.

PoppaGator, so glad you are well.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black looters, white finders
From: Azizi
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 05:50 PM

See this excerpt from a dailykos diary about a CNN reporter:

Jack Cafferty on CNN
by lesliet
Thu Sep 1st, 2005 at 13:01:43 PDT
[From the diaries -- Hunter.]

Another example of a newsman calling it like it is. (Transcribed as best I can. )


The thing that's most glaring in all of this is that the conditions continue to deteriorate for people who are victims and the efforts to do something about it don't seem to be anywhere in sight. [...]

The questions that we ask in The Situation Room every day are posted on the website two or three hours before we go on the air and people who read the website often begin to respond to the questions before the show actually starts. The question for this hour is whether the government is doing a good job in handling the situation.

I gotta tell you something, we got five or six hundred letters before the show actually went on the air, and no one - no one - is saying the government is doing a good job in handling one of the most atrocious and embarrassing and far-reaching and calamatous things that has come along in this country in my lifetime. I'm 62. I remember the riots in Watts, I remember the earthquake in San Francisco, I remember a lot of things. I have never, ever, seen anything as bungled and as poorly handled as this situation in New Orleans. Where the hell is the water for these people? Why can't sandwiches be dropped to those people in the Superdome. What is going on? This is Thursday! This storm happened 5 days ago. This is a disgrace. And don't think the world isn't watching. This is the government that the taxpayers are paying for, and it's fallen right flat on its face as far as I can see, in the way it's handled this thing.

We're going to talk about something else before the show's over, too. And that's the big elephant in the room. The race and economic class of most of the victims, which the media hasn't discussed much at all, but we will a bit later...."

-snip-

To read the comments from this diary click HERE

****

Frankly, I'm too full or too empty [one or the other or both] to talk about this right now.

But I thank you Wolfgang for raising this topic at Mudcat.

[And I just noted the irony of this community's name].

May God have mercy on those dying and suffering now. May God have mercy on us all. And may we learn from this devastation that "we {really} are the world"...


Azizi


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Subject: RE: BS: Black looters, white finders
From: nutty
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 06:10 PM

yes .... the rest of the world is watching ...... helplessly.

This disaster could never have been seriously considered as a possibility. It was never prepared for and what preparations were made are hopelessly inadequate.

This disaster covers an area the size of England ... to come anywhere near to coping it needs the full resources that the USA can provide, but with 30% of the National Guard and other military resources tied up in Iraq there is no way that help will come to many people. The very old, the very young and the vulnerable will die in ever increasing numbers.

However powerful and important the USA thought it was, nature has shown its vulnerabilities to the world and the world is watching.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black looters, white finders
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 06:15 PM

Just heard that Fats Domino is missing
Fats Domino missing in New Orleans


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Subject: RE: BS: Black looters, white finders
From: GUEST,Guy Who Thinks
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 06:22 PM

There's no lack of military resources in the States. But this is a race against time, involving the cranking up of a vast rescue machine that is bound to malfunction because of its size and the unfamiliarity of the mission. Nobody has had much experience in rescuing tens of thousands of starving people from a huge swamp.

For the countries hit by the tsunami, local resources were usually so limited that breakdowns from sheer size and complexity were uncommon. But the resources themselves were inadequate, and that was the problem.

CNN is just now showing aerial photos of Gulport, Mississippi. It's dry, but the level of destruction really does resemble Hiroshima without the radiation. Every frame building is literally flattened, and the brick structures are hollow shells.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black looters, white finders
From: Jeri
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 06:29 PM

The most I can say about the situation and be pretty sure I'm right is that the people who are being left behind and allowed to die are the poor people who couldn't afford to evacuate. Most of these people, from what I've seen, are black.

I'd say these people's biggest 'sin' is that they don't have money and are therefore invisible. They aren't invisble because they're black. But are they poor because they're black? Is N.O. a particularly hard place for an African American to make a life, or is it just something we outsiders noticed because you usually don't have that large a group of poor people gathered in one place dying of invisibility?


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Subject: RE: BS: Black looters, white finders
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 06:33 PM

The race and economic class of most of the victims is indeed a factor in how the government is responding...which is to say...they would respond more vigorously and effectively, I think, if the victims were mostly white, from a higher income bracket, from a more upscale sector of white society. Yes, prejudice does play a part in this...unquestionably.

It always does.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black looters, white finders
From: greg stephens
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 06:41 PM

I know it's easy to criticise from a distance, but surely there must be some organisation in America which can organise some water and a few sanwiches etc? Everybody is familiar with the tendency of news programmes to exaggerate cockups, especially if they can have a go at Bush in the process, but what we are seeing here is just incredible. It's not rocket science: you get a helicopter, fill it up with stuff, fly down and drop it off. Isn't that what you do? I only ask.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black looters, white finders
From: nutty
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 06:41 PM

If there is no lack of military resources why is there such an acute lack of helicopter support?
Why are resources being brought in through clogged highways?
Why are there no drops of food and water to people who are desperately in need?
Why are people not being evacuated by helicopter?
Why are communications such a problem? (eg no satelite phones)
How can people boil water when there is no electricity or gas?
How can young babies and old people survive without milk or water?
Presumably there have been mobilisation exercises for such disasters ... what is the optimum time for getting resources to such a disaster area. Comments from the media today suggested another 3 days before things will be under control. That will certainly be too late for some.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black looters, white finders
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 06:46 PM

Let's step back a little here. I've remarked here or elsewhere (since there is a proliferation of Hurricane threads) that those left behind were probably poor and less able to get transportation, less educated and less convinced of the need to go, in such dire straights already that leaving was more than they could handle. And the majority of them were black.

The preponderance of this population, the 20% left behind, were black. But look at the U.S. Census figures for New Orleans before you start deciding that there was some intentional, racist motive behind this particular outcome. New Orleans has a much larger African American population than many other American cities. 67% of all New Orleans citizens in the census claim African American background. So no matter WHAT happens in New Orleans, more people are going to be black than other races.

Link to Census Home Page.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Black looters, white finders
From: Greg F.
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 06:49 PM

The U.S. military is spending billions every day "bringing freedom" to Iraq. And its overextended.

Can't spare personnel or budget for Louisiana & Mississippi.

Get your priorities straight, wouldya? What's more important? A bogus war, or actually doing something to help U.S. citizens?

Jeez.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black looters, white finders
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 06:51 PM

The question though SRS, is why are such a high proportion of the poor people black?


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Subject: RE: BS: Black looters, white finders
From: artbrooks
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 06:53 PM

People are being evacuated by helicopter, but this is being saved for the sick and injured. These choppers are also bringing in some water and emergency supplies, but they are being shot at by the people they are trying to help. Anyone who seriously thinks that whites are getting priority over blacks is simply sick. A lot of good information is available at the Times-Picayune web site.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black looters, white finders
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 06:55 PM

The upper link doesn't seem to work. The breakdown is cut and pasted here, without their table format.

One race (claiming ancestry within one race only)
478,473
98.7
97.6%

White
135,956
28.1
75.1%
map
brief

Black or African American
325,947
67.3
12.3%
map
brief

American Indian and Alaska Native
991
0.2
0.9%
map
brief

Asian
10,972
2.3
3.6%
map
brief

Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander
109
0.0
0.1%
map
brief

Some other race
4,498
0.9
5.5%
map
   
Hispanic or Latino (of any race)
14,826
3.1
12.5%
map
brief


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