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BS: the only send money syndrome

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mg 04 Sep 05 - 04:26 PM
Deckman 04 Sep 05 - 04:40 PM
pdq 04 Sep 05 - 04:52 PM
McGrath of Harlow 04 Sep 05 - 05:15 PM
Sorcha 04 Sep 05 - 05:25 PM
Deckman 04 Sep 05 - 05:30 PM
Deckman 04 Sep 05 - 05:39 PM
Peace 04 Sep 05 - 05:56 PM
GUEST 04 Sep 05 - 06:04 PM
CarolC 04 Sep 05 - 06:09 PM
McGrath of Harlow 04 Sep 05 - 06:13 PM
pdq 04 Sep 05 - 06:16 PM
Peace 04 Sep 05 - 06:23 PM
GUEST 04 Sep 05 - 06:26 PM
CarolC 04 Sep 05 - 06:26 PM
GUEST 04 Sep 05 - 06:30 PM
LilyFestre 04 Sep 05 - 06:52 PM
katlaughing 04 Sep 05 - 06:59 PM
GUEST 04 Sep 05 - 07:13 PM
Scoville 04 Sep 05 - 07:20 PM
mg 04 Sep 05 - 09:02 PM
mg 04 Sep 05 - 09:25 PM
LilyFestre 04 Sep 05 - 10:59 PM
CarolC 05 Sep 05 - 12:50 PM
Le Scaramouche 05 Sep 05 - 02:54 PM
GUEST,mg 06 Sep 05 - 02:23 PM
GUEST 06 Sep 05 - 03:02 PM

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Subject: BS: the only send money syndrome
From: mg
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 04:26 PM

I truly think this is part of the problem. There are millions of people who want to do something...and thousands who are close enough and have the skills and resources...and yet the mantra is always we don't want blankets, tents, food, water..we only want money because and then they list some very logical reasons why...I certainly think any agency has the right to say what they want and don't want, and obviously the Red Cross is the one saying this the longest and loudest...don't come, you'll only get in the way..we can't take the time to sort through the junk we'll get etc...True...but then other agencies should say
1) We will go as close as we can without getting in the way and if we get there before the others we will do what we can.
2) we will have collection sites at every church. Every church (or whatever, library, etc.) will have stuff bagged up and drivers will drive to the nearest port, train station collection point, and we will get that stuff down there. If it is not needed, we will find poor neighborhoods on the way back and donate it to churches there for distribution or sale.
3) We will drive trucks wtih at least water and blankets in as far as we can get. We will put a call out for people with boats to ferry water, blankets, food in and sick and infants out.
4) we have veterans who can help with security if they are released from law suits and deputized.
5) we will assume that the able-bodied people without famileis who need them will assist in rescue efforts once they are fed and hydrated.


etc. etc.

You can drop fistfulls of gold dragoons on thirsty people and it is not going to help them one bit. They need stuff. We have stuff. We have lost our ability as a country to get it from point A to point B, in perfect weather on empty roads. Or through calm (although rat and snake infested) shallow water..... There is a lot we all need to think about with this human fiasco....

Also, some of the people who were evacuated need to have a short rest, because time is so critical, and go right back into those neighborhoods that they know better than the coast guard or whoever and start breaking down doors looking for the last survivors.

There is a call out for all medical people, including housekeepers, everything...I can't go this disaster..but there will be others and I will...retired teachers..sunday school teachers, recreation workers, social workers, everyone will be needed somewhere...not to interfere with rescue efforts but sometimes to be the first if not only to provide them....mg

p.s. there are a lot of people in the criminal justice system..for the truly non-violent..I would say..here is your ticket out..do X, Y and Z, under pretty strict surveillance by video or whatever..and your sentence is cut in half, or abolished....mg


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Subject: RE: BS: the only send money syndrome
From: Deckman
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 04:40 PM

Mary ... I know a little of your military background and experience. I respect your opinions highly. Several of us in my neighborhood are puzzeling about how best to help.

I personally can't fly down there to help, though I'm sure I'd be useful in some capacity or other if I was down there.

The strongest suggestions seems to be ... give the money to the Red Cross! Hmmmmm?
CHEERS, Bob


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Subject: RE: BS: the only send money syndrome
From: pdq
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 04:52 PM

Some of us no longer trust the Red Cross after the opportunistic hoarding of money following the Trade Tower atrocity.

Anyway, Mary, it is very nice to see you back.


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Subject: RE: BS: the only send money syndrome
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 05:15 PM

And the time to get organised for that kind of response is before it's needed. Which means thinking and planning ahead so that the next time something really bad happens people can swing into action.

That doesn't mean not doing what you can now, just that doing what you can now is not enough in itself, because this isn't the last time things are going to go badly wrong.


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Subject: RE: BS: the only send money syndrome
From: Sorcha
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 05:25 PM

I won't give money to the Red Cross..never have. My dad said that during diasters they SOLD donated stuff...and people had to PAY for food they provided. I'll give my blood and Stuff...not money. Sorry, Whizzy.


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Subject: RE: BS: the only send money syndrome
From: Deckman
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 05:30 PM

McGrath ... I think you just made a very insightful statement. The question is ... just "who" is best able to bring relief to a disaster on this scale. From my military experience (I was a medic with a combat medic field hospital unit) I have to say that ONLY the military can really do it best and fastest.

So much of the critism (sp?) seems to blame President bush for placing all of our military forces in a place where they are not wanted or welcomed. This means that those very military forces: Military Police, National Guard, Medics, Field Hospitals, Triage Units, Graves regestration, Communication Centers, Political Affairs units, etc., are NOT available to our country when we need them now!

Where is the 607th Medical Medical Unit now? I think we were dissbanded during the Reagan Presidency in the 70's, as being unecessary!

Oh well ... onward and upward! Bob(deckman)Nelson


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Subject: RE: BS: the only send money syndrome
From: Deckman
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 05:39 PM

Sorcha ... I know ... I know ... The critismns of the Red Cross go on forever. But, am I wrong here? I think the Red Cross orginization has the best reuptation for getting the goods on the ground where and when it's needed.

If ANYONE has a better suggestion, my friends and I want to hear from you ... NOW!!! Bob


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Subject: RE: BS: the only send money syndrome
From: Peace
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 05:56 PM

I agree that only the military can bring order out of this kind of chaos. Under military command structure should come SAR people, EMS services, police, fire personnel, CISD workers, shippers/receivers who know how to organize and distribure large volumes of materiel--get the water and food where it's needed kinda folks. It is better to start with as many trained people as possible, because they know how to watch out for each other and how to deal with the stuff they see.

The above in turn requires that someone at the top of the command structure with the authority to do so says, "MAKE IT HAPPEN!" Ball's in your court, Bush.


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Subject: RE: BS: the only send money syndrome
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 06:04 PM

Well, just to let y'all in on a VERY BIG FEMA/Homeland Security cupla secrets:

1) After four years of swimming in all our disaster tax dollars, a national database of first responders DOES NOT EXIST!!! Remember that old tune about how all that Homeland Security stuff was going to the heroes of 9/11? Nope. Nada. Not at all. My nephew, the paramedic, has been "waiting on standby" in KC waiting since Thursday for FEMA to get back to them...

2) Yer man in charge over there at FEMAgate, Michael Brown. Now what do you suppose his qualifications are? Well, it seems he's a horse trade from FLORIDAY no less, who was close friends with Bushie Boy's 2000 campaign manager who originally got the plum job to head up FEMA as his share of the political spoils. He went on to greener pastures, and left his horsey set dubya buddy in charge.

So how much experience in this deeeeessaaaaasssster managing does Mr. Horse Face Brown posess?

Zero. Zip. Zilch. Zed.

Keep voting Republican, folks. This is the government you get AFTER TAX CUTS.


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Subject: RE: BS: the only send money syndrome
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 06:09 PM

What I heard is that it's illegal under US law to send any military people other than National Guard for anything that would involve police type work (one of the reasons it would be nice if we could keep our National Guard resources here in the country, instead of shipping them all over the world). Other branches of the military are definitely an asset in this kind of situation for other kinds of support. Which begs the question... why weren't they sent in right away?


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Subject: RE: BS: the only send money syndrome
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 06:13 PM

Where I live, in England, OXFAM is the first place to go to when there's some disaster happened and you want to send help, and want to send it through people you can trust. There's an OXFAM charity shop in just about every town in the UK I think.

I don't know how far that applies in the USA, but I see there's an OXFAM America


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Subject: RE: BS: the only send money syndrome
From: pdq
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 06:16 PM

Sorry, Mary. It didn't take long for this thread to be hijacked by hate-mongering assholes. Did you expect anything else?


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Subject: RE: BS: the only send money syndrome
From: Peace
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 06:23 PM

Incidentally, the Red Cross were wonderful during the Edmonton tornado.


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Subject: RE: BS: the only send money syndrome
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 06:26 PM

It is against the law CarolC. But you should know by know, Bushie and his assassins are WAAAAAY above the law. Why, they OWN the law!


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Subject: RE: BS: the only send money syndrome
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 06:26 PM

Sending help won't do any good if they won't let the help you send go into the area. And that has been a big part of the problem so far.


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Subject: RE: BS: the only send money syndrome
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 06:30 PM

Actually, no one cares about the law right now. The military is in there, on the ground, and has taken over.

Man, how sad that New Orleans is under siege like this. That town is paying off a whole lot of karma this week.


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Subject: RE: BS: the only send money syndrome
From: LilyFestre
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 06:52 PM

I won't send money to the Red Cross either. Having heard similar tales of the Red Cross selling things that were donated, how the higher ups actually made a personal PROFIT from the milllions that poured in during 9-11 and even locally how little they actually did for a friend whose house burned to the ground.....I just can't do it. I'll gladly give to the Salvation Army and our family has decided to send money to folks in the area who KNOW which charities are actually being useful/helpful to folks.

I imagine that once basic needs such as food, water and shelter are being met, there will be a need for clothing, blankets, etc...when those kinds of requests start coming in, we'll send that as well.

Here's to hoping that the money being donated to all the various organizations is being used in the most helpful ways possible.

Michelle


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Subject: RE: BS: the only send money syndrome
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 06:59 PM

Good to see you, Mary. I know of at least one church group, here, which is gathering clothing, etc. and will take it down or ship it, not sure which one.

Ebbie recommended helping the Mennonites in their relief efforts. Her recommendation is good enough for me. Also, I would give to the Salvation Army and or an Episcopalian church fund.


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Subject: RE: BS: the only send money syndrome
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 07:13 PM

The only reason for bringing up not giving to the Red Cross is some are too cheap, thoughtless and completely uncaring to give anyway.


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Subject: RE: BS: the only send money syndrome
From: Scoville
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 07:20 PM

I heard a lot of complaints from neighbors that, when they tried to find out where to send money, there wasn't anyone manning the phones (I think she called the Salvation Army but I'm not sure). I know that it's Sunday but hello. She had a hard time finding the local chapter of whatever charity she finally did reach--again, I forget which one but it was one of the big ones--and was pretty disgusted at how poorly organized it appeared to be.

We took three bags of Mom's too-big T-shirts to church today to be distributed to the people who came to Houston.


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Subject: RE: BS: the only send money syndrome
From: mg
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 09:02 PM

In the Seattle area I would call Deseret..they have something in Shoreline I think. When in doubt, call the Mormons who plan for this type of thing.

Anyone who is in any political patronage position and has screwed things up needs to go right now. I heard the present FEMA director and was not impressed and saw a previous one and was impressed.

If, and only if, the people do not harm or kill the rescuers, there are lots and lots of people who could help and don't need to be Natinoal Guard. Nurses and Red Cross workers and others from Vietnam lists I am on are begging to be told where to go. VVA could mobilize thousands and thousands of still fairly strong people.   I tell you, if i was a football coach down south having strong young men building up muscle by pushing those things across teh fields..I'd say forget it..we are heading south to build muscles the old-fashioned way by accomplishing something with it.

This is my other rant..we absolutely must respect and train the young men of our country..yes..even more in these situations than young women..we can't have them drugged out, knocking over old women to get on the buses etc. (I haven't seen that) or God forbid, raping and pillaging. I am certainly not talking about liberating food for survival, and i am not talking about taking TVs..that can be dealt with with stiff public service sentences...but the very lifeline of america and any country is its young men...they will be the ones punching out the attic windows looking for whatever....and they need to be given opportunities..after hopefully a quick criminal check..to go back and help in the rescue efforts or they will forever feel inferior and ashamed..or let's hope they do unless we are that far gone that they don't. But they have always rallyed and they will again. mg


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Subject: RE: BS: the only send money syndrome
From: mg
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 09:25 PM

here is the press release about needing medical personnel.

You know what amazes me..I did not hear the word triage until yesterday...when if you have people who are dying, and people who will be fine for days with just a bit of food and water and basic security...you have to sort them out...also, there was some airport evacuation medical center where they couldn't give medical care becuse they were spending all their time loading people onto planes...carrying stretchers or pushing wheelchairs, even with IVs etc. is a job for high school students..not nurses and doctors...why don't they pull the strongest out of line and say can you stick around for a while...although all of them might be weakened and exhausted now..but maybe not..

Anyway, an eight year old in tillamook Oregon has organized a truck full of food...other trucks are leaving Vancouver, Washington. If I had a truck and was retired I would head through Yakima and ask for the imperfect fruit that probably gets left to rot and hit friends up for gas and drive it down myself....likewise lentils...Washington grows huge amounts and people can live for a long time on them... mg

News Release
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Saturday, September 3, 2005
Contact: HHS Public Affairs
(202) 690-6343
HHS Releases Website and Toll Free Number for Deployment by Health Care
Professionals
The Department of Health and Human Services has established a website
(_https://volunteer.hhs.gov_ (https://volunteer.hhs.gov/) ) and toll-free number
(1-866-KAT MEDI) to help identify health care professionals and relief
personnel to assist in Hurricane Katrina relief efforts.
"The desire of America's health care professionals to use their skills to
help Hurricane Katrina's victims has been inspiring, " Secretary Mike Leavitt
said. "This website and toll free number are important tools to become part
of this network of goodness that is taking place."
Multidisciplinary healthcare professionals and relief personnel with
expertise in the following areas are encouraged to visit the website and register to
volunteer for appointment by HHS:   
Administration/Finance Officers   
Nursing Assistants/Nursing Support Technicians   
Chaplain/Social Worker   
Nursing Staff Directors   
Clinical Physicians   
Patient Transporters/Volunteers   
Dentists   
Pharmacists   
Dieticians   
Psychologists   
Epidemiologists   
Physician's Assistants or Nurse Practitioners   
Environmental Health   
Physician Chiefs of Staff   
Epidemiologists   
Respiratory Therapists   
Facility Managers   
RNs   
Housekeepers   
Safety Officers   
IT/Communications Officers   
Security Officers   
LPNs   
Social Workers   
Medical Clerks   
Supply Managers   
Mental Health Workers   
Veterinarians
Please be advised that individuals must be healthy enough to function under
field conditions. This may include all or some of the following:
12-hour shifts
Austere conditions (possibly no showers, housing in tents)
No air conditioning
Long periods of standing
Sleep accommodations on bedroll
Military ready to eat meals
These workers will be non-paid temporary Federal employees, and will
therefore be eligible for coverage under the Federal Tort Claims Act for liability
coverage and Workman's Compensation when functioning as HHS employees.
Although there will not be any salary, travel and per diem will be paid.
Volunteers with no healthcare background can find information on
volunteering _USAFreedomCorps.gov_ (http://www.usafreedomcorps.gov/) or by calling
1-877-USA-CORPS.


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Subject: RE: BS: the only send money syndrome
From: LilyFestre
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 10:59 PM

Guest,

   I think anyone who has made the choice to NOT send money to the Red Cross is someone who wants a very high percentage of their donation, if not ALL of their donation to go directly to the people who need it. There are lots of other helping organizations out there...you are free to send your cash donation to any or all of them. The important part is that we ALL help.

Michelle


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Subject: RE: BS: the only send money syndrome
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 12:50 PM

This is the kind of bullshit that volunteers are up against in this tragedy, and that is preventing them from being able to help out...

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/09/04/national/a123145D82.DTL


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Subject: RE: BS: the only send money syndrome
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 02:54 PM

I don't know (but am not surprised) about the Red Cross, but the last thing needed right now is for a lot of well meaning folks lending assistance. Sometimes help is just the opposite. After this has settled down I think they should revamp the emrgency services, incoprporate more volunteers, etc, but don't waste time or energy over it now.


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Subject: RE: BS: the only send money syndrome
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 02:23 PM

Easy to say unless your grandmother is up to her neck in a wheelchair with rats swimming around her...

And has John Kerry put out any statements? I think it would have been admirable for him to say I was a Swift Boat captain..I'll provide my own boat and anyone who wants to join me in a rescue effort, Red Cross or no, Fema or no, can join me. This is not a political statement at all...true for any public leaders...mg


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Subject: RE: BS: the only send money syndrome
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 03:02 PM

I used to live in a town that had a strong Mennonite community, and I have never seen any group as effective in mobilizing their people, as good at organizing them, or as wholeheartedly committed to the common good--if you want to make sure your relief donation does the most that it can, you can do no better than giving to Mennonite Disaster Services--

As far as reconstruction plans, consider this effort by Habitat for Humanity Project Home Delivery --and you can do more than just send money--


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