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BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH

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Donuel 01 Sep 05 - 12:12 PM
Donuel 01 Sep 05 - 12:14 PM
GUEST 01 Sep 05 - 12:33 PM
McGrath of Harlow 01 Sep 05 - 12:40 PM
beardedbruce 01 Sep 05 - 12:41 PM
GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser) 01 Sep 05 - 12:48 PM
GUEST,Guy Who Thinks 01 Sep 05 - 12:51 PM
Donuel 01 Sep 05 - 12:59 PM
GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser) 01 Sep 05 - 12:59 PM
Donuel 01 Sep 05 - 01:08 PM
Janie 01 Sep 05 - 01:10 PM
beardedbruce 01 Sep 05 - 01:14 PM
Donuel 01 Sep 05 - 01:23 PM
Ebbie 01 Sep 05 - 01:24 PM
Donuel 01 Sep 05 - 01:25 PM
Donuel 01 Sep 05 - 01:40 PM
GUEST,Guy Who Thinks 01 Sep 05 - 05:49 PM
Wesley S 01 Sep 05 - 06:04 PM
GUEST,Guy Who Thinks 01 Sep 05 - 06:14 PM
George Papavgeris 01 Sep 05 - 06:15 PM
artbrooks 01 Sep 05 - 06:25 PM
McGrath of Harlow 01 Sep 05 - 06:32 PM
McGrath of Harlow 01 Sep 05 - 06:59 PM
Bee-dubya-ell 01 Sep 05 - 07:18 PM
nutty 01 Sep 05 - 07:44 PM
The Fooles Troupe 01 Sep 05 - 07:47 PM
dianavan 01 Sep 05 - 08:23 PM
McGrath of Harlow 01 Sep 05 - 08:34 PM
The Fooles Troupe 01 Sep 05 - 08:52 PM
Donuel 01 Sep 05 - 09:12 PM
GUEST,G 01 Sep 05 - 10:16 PM
bobad 01 Sep 05 - 10:36 PM
GUEST,Guy Who Thinks 01 Sep 05 - 10:50 PM
Joe Offer 02 Sep 05 - 03:29 AM
akenaton 02 Sep 05 - 03:54 AM
beardedbruce 02 Sep 05 - 07:27 AM
beardedbruce 02 Sep 05 - 07:36 AM
dianavan 02 Sep 05 - 12:24 PM
Bunnahabhain 02 Sep 05 - 05:04 PM
Amos 02 Sep 05 - 05:10 PM
The Fooles Troupe 02 Sep 05 - 08:23 PM
Peace 02 Sep 05 - 08:37 PM
Peace 02 Sep 05 - 08:39 PM
artbrooks 02 Sep 05 - 08:46 PM
Kaleea 02 Sep 05 - 08:47 PM
Cluin 02 Sep 05 - 08:53 PM
Azizi 02 Sep 05 - 11:02 PM
Azizi 02 Sep 05 - 11:23 PM
Azizi 02 Sep 05 - 11:34 PM
Azizi 02 Sep 05 - 11:52 PM

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Subject: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 12:12 PM

The warnings are over. We are now in an end game.


There is a waiting game going on.

IT is part of the oldest struggle in civilization - class war.
Rescue the rich because the poor are worth less.
Stadium housing is less than 1% of the displaced poor but are ideal for media focus.

Pointing this out is neither remarkable or bemoaning the fact that inaction of a few days can eliminate a large segment of an undesirable element of the population.

Is there money to react? Yes and no.


DHS | Department of Homeland Security | Fact Sheet: US Department ...
Homeland Security budget request totals $41.1 billion, up from $36 billion in 2004.

Where are they after 3 days? Still outside the area of downtown.

Our leader speaks...
President George W. Bush declared that "there will be zero tolerance for looters...
I am Confident you will build your life back up and America will be stronger for it."
.....................................
Humanitarian search and rescue manpower will now be diverted to police enforcement of property laws.
www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/interapp/

Over 1,200 police are to switch from search and rescue today to battle the pillageing of grocery stores.
press_release/press_release_0613.xml

The Red Cross says they only have $1 1/2 million dollars to deal with Katrina. Where did the $6 billion in surplus 9-11 funds go?


........................................

Homeland Security chief Chertoff is talking about official survey's, fact finding committees, and data scrutiny before a total deployment of homeland security relief can be undertaken.
*****************************************************************

It seems if they can only drag their feet another 5 days they should be able to eradicate at least 70% of the extremely poor to thirst and disease.

Deliberate inaction is apparent when the wealthy Tulane University hospital in New Orleans was evacuated by a special National Guard unit but the State Hospital across the street did not get so much as a knock on the door even 3 days later.

The White hotel guests in New Orleans had dozens of private buses take them away much to the consternation of the black residents who were not allowed on board.

*****************************************************************

This disaster seems to have the post event plans of Iraq.
I am sure with the expertise of Halliburton they can get the electricity up and going within 3 years like they have in Iraq.


Watch the self congratulation speeches made by Chertoff, FEMA and Red Cross chiefs. So far the Salvation Army has done the most good.

Watch carefully as all blame for poor disaster relief will be put on the shoulders of the looters. The poor will be made the scapegoat here.

They will be blamed for lack of food water and generators due to looting. I am seeing only 95% black people in the Superdome fiasco.

The victims will have no spokesperson. Instead we will see only Federal chiefs and Govenors telling the "big story".

You can bet on it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 12:14 PM

hurricaine warnings


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Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 12:33 PM

Donuel, I find it impossible to discern whether you are playing "Devils Advocate' or that you are completely disatisfied with life.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 12:40 PM

I hope that this disaster makes it impossible for the politicians in Washington to keep their heads buried in the sand about global warming, as they shrug off the warnings about the dangers ahead. Monday, August 29th, 2005
Is Global Warming Causing More Devastating Hurricanes Worldwide?


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Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: beardedbruce
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 12:41 PM

Donuel,

Unless you have information to the contrary, I suggest you change your statement to :

"The HOTEL GUESTS in New Orleans had dozens of private buses take them away much to the consternation of the LOCAL RESIDENTS who were not allowed on board."


I doubt if black hotel guests were removed, or local white residents were allowed on. What you are doing is inciting racial unrest, for your own reasons.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 12:48 PM

Watched the news last night. Shot of men in baseball caps pushing SUVs along the road.

Now do we get it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: GUEST,Guy Who Thinks
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 12:51 PM

The current "Looters/Finders" thread has more of this.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 12:59 PM

Good, lets all pretend it isn't happening. The TV reporters on the ground have been using code words like "an obvious division" is going on.

No I did not mean to imply that non white hotel guests were not allowed on buses. Remember that class war applies to haves vs. have nots more than any artificial racial divides.

They have said that the people downtown (blacks) are making it impossible to be rescued and are violent with rescuers while the people in the suberbs are gentle gracious and appreciative.

beardedbruce, I could just as easily say that you are inciting mudcat unrest for your own reasons and it would be just as non-sensical as your accusation. - so I won't.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 12:59 PM

Any news of Poppa Gator?


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Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 01:08 PM

He's high and dry in KY


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Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Janie
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 01:10 PM

Donuel--From what I am reading on the mainstream internet media outlets--The lack of social control is seriously inhibiting rescue and recovery efforts. "Looters", I think, is being used to include anti-social and mob behaviors that are detremental to the life and security of those involved in rescue efforts.

Related, but still thread drift--We here in the USA have rarely, if ever, experienced a disaster on such a large scale, and that has so completely wiped out our considerable infrastructure and ability of social institutions to function. We have often observed this in third world countries. As I read about deaths because aid can not reach people along the Gulf Coast, and about the lawlessness and panic-driven violence occurring, I am reminded of scenes such as those in Bagdad immediately after our invasion. Just goes to show that all around the world, people are more alike than they are different--definitely brothers (and sisters) under the skin.

Janie


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Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: beardedbruce
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 01:14 PM

Then talk about CLASS rather than RACE.

Should I say that WHITE residents of Montgomery county MD have a greater say in county affairs than BLACK renters?

It may be true- but only in that there are more RESIDENTS than RENTERS. A true statement, then, but one that misrepresents the situation. You forgot to say how, before the hurricane, the WHITE guests were provided clean beds, and the BLACK residents had to go get their own, as well.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 01:23 PM

Janie: here are pictures right after the fall of Baghdad.

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/iraqloot.jpg

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/iraqloot1.jpg

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/iraqloot2.jpg


I also have pictures of US servicemen stripping gold off the walls of palaces in Iraq.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 01:24 PM

I agree with BeardedBruce. To the extent that it's happening, it is inevitably about class. And at this point, if we are not personally there helping, it is counterproductive to incite hatred and division, imo.

Rumors have horses.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 01:25 PM

Bearded bruce - editorial point well taken. The class war too easily gets perverted to a racial only divide.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 01:40 PM

quote from PappaGator

"How can people be trained not to express their unconscious prejudices? One woman on CNN, in particular, has been driving me nuts ~ she is so full of racial hatred (unconsicous, I'm sure, and expressed only obliquely) that I almost had to scream.

There is definitely criminal activity going on, but taking food (that will be going bad soon anyway) out of grocery stores does not fit that category.

New Orleans has its share of thugs ands criminals, and after everyone with a working vehicle and a credit card had left town, the gangbanger portion of the population shot up from maybe 1% of a million people to a good 20% of the remaining thousands. Also, the most skillful criminals left town in their Lincoln Navigators along with the rest of us. The people left in town are almost all black and almost all very poor ~ and the amoral characters among them are very dangerous people indeed."


He is right on the money


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Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: GUEST,Guy Who Thinks
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 05:49 PM

No evidence of any plot, genocidal or otherwise.

Even Marx and Lenin recognized the existence of a "lumpenproletariat," people so degraded that they were useful only as violent enforcers of revolution. These are the sort of people who are being classed as looters along with those who are simply taking food and water. The difference is that the criminals want plunder.

The gangbangers had every reason to stay in town. First, only cowards run from something like a storm. Second, they face death from a drive-by shooting every day, so how's Katrina any different? Third, if they leave, the other gang may come by and torch their house. Some of them don't want to leave a sick parent. And who wants to sit in a traffic jam for hours anyway? Finally, if they stay, they can loot. Maybe they can settle some scores. They can be hurricane kings. (Nobody counted on a flood and the possibility of drowning or starving.)

So no one should be surprised at sociopathic behavior. I don't think city officials are surprised. Anarchy often follows disasters like this.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Wesley S
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 06:04 PM

So we've reverted back to Dodge City. And in a few weeks New Orleans will look almost medieval.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: GUEST,Guy Who Thinks
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 06:14 PM

I fear that in a few weeks no one there now will be left alive in that swamp. Just terrible.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 06:15 PM

Fats Domino missing in New Orleans


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Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: artbrooks
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 06:25 PM

According to the news I read, Tulane University Hospital, which is owned and operated by Hospital Corporation of America, is being evacuated by helicopters leased by HCA. Charity Hospital, which is across the street, is being evacuated by Guard choppers using the Tulane helipad. These helicopters, as well as ones at the Superdome and the Convention Center, have been fired upon by "civilians."   A number of hotel guests rented buses to get themselves out of the city, but the buses were confiscated by the military to be used for the Superdome evacuation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 06:32 PM

There just doesn't seem to have been any adequate contingency planning for this. And yet it could have been predicted that sooner or later it was going to happen in a part of the world where hurricanes are a regular event.

And in fact it was known that Katrina was headed for New Orleans well enough in advance to have put into action an effective complete evacuation to places which were safe, if there had been adequate advance planning.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 06:59 PM

Here's a link to an explanation of "Hurricane Categories" by the "National Weather Service's Hurricane Center".

Katrina was the top Category, Category Five - and the point is, Category Five Hurricanes had stuck the US mainland no fewer than three times since records began, in 1935, 1969 and 1992, with another near miss in 1988.

This was predictable. The failure to prepare for it, to put the work into maintaining and improving the flood defences, in line with the recommendations of the professional experts, and the failure to have a proper evacuation plan in place, are nothing short of criminal. Literally so.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 07:18 PM

To add another thought to Guy Who Thinks' comments above, New Orleans, like all big cities, has a drug problem. I don't know how severe NO's drug problem is, nor do I know how many drug addicts live (or used to live) in the city. But you can bet almost none of them evacuated or sought shelter. One of the main things an addict needs is a place to practice his addiction and in the Superdome with 20,000 other people doesn't really fit the bill.

And most of those addicts are now going into withdrawal because their suppliers either evacuated or are dead. As the authorities start rounding up the last few thousand people left in the city and forcing them to leave the city and go to refugee camps there are going to be a large number of very sick junkies, crackheads and meth-heads among them.

Just another item to be added to the list of issues the folks who are charged with caring for the storm's refugees are going to have to deal with.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: nutty
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 07:44 PM

I still haven't found out what they are going to do with the prisoners..... any ideas??

Further to the post about addicts.
This could be a major cause of the looting. No addict is going to pass up an opportunity to hoard anything he/she thinks will make them enough money to buy drugs.
As they will also have problems obtaining money or drugs from legitimate sources (eg benefit cheques, atm machines, pharmacies )who can blame them.

The gun problem is also exacerbated by the fact that citizens of the USA are legally allowed to carry guns.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 07:47 PM

For very many years, there has been a determination to keep a city built on swamp ground lower than sea level alive in defiance of Nature. Of course, Venice was a city which had lots of reasons to save it. So it was thought, did New Orleans.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: dianavan
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 08:23 PM

bb - "Should I say that WHITE residents of Montgomery county MD have a greater say in county affairs than BLACK renters?"

Renters are also residents.

Land owners have a greater say than renters.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 08:34 PM

Well, they don't have an annual hurricane season in Venice. And, even so, they don't cut back on the essential maintenance work in order to finance foreign wars, while still giving massive tax breaks to rich people.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 08:52 PM

Actually, they do have a regular season of prevailing winds, which pushes up elevated tidal flows.

And while we are on the subject of people living in areas with high risk of natural Disasters, don't forget people who live near volcanoes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 09:12 PM

And while we are on the subject of people living in areas with high risk of natural Disasters, I think there was a completely safe planet in the Ganglia Galaxy but it was vaporized by a super nova.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: GUEST,G
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 10:16 PM

I wonder quite frequently regarding what the Brits and others think about the great and powerful USA. Some of our examples are quite disturbing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: bobad
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 10:36 PM

An old man in a chaise lounge lay dead in a grassy median as hungry babies wailed around him. Around the corner, an elderly woman lay dead in her wheelchair, covered up by a blanket, and another body lay beside her wrapped in a sheet.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: GUEST,Guy Who Thinks
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 10:50 PM

We'd better prepare ourselves for many such images in the days to come. They're part of the definition of "catastrophe."


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Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane Aftermath
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 03:29 AM

It does seem that the Feds are being slow to respond to this disaster. I guess it's because Bush channeled all our money into his war games in Iraq.

Here's an excerpt from religious perspective that I found interesting. I got it in an e-mail - the entire article is here (click) on the Web. I think it's a pretty rational insight into what's wrong with our society, particularly in the U.S.
    Katrina, God and Social Morality
    by Rabbi Michael Lerner

    The white majority of the people of Louisiana elected Congressional representatives who enthusiastically support the war in Iraq and the Bush Administration's environmental irresponsibility. When economic devastation hit workers in northern cities over the past several decades, Louisianans voted to downsize the federal government and to let others fend for themselves. Many talked about the glories of relying on the free marketplace rather than on the "handouts" from a national government that they abhorred. Or they told the poor and the homeless in northern cities that "if they worked harder or had better habits or were smarter they'd have employment and wouldn't have to depend on others' help. Or they saw that suffering of others as "the hand of God."

    And yet, the law of karma or Torah doesn't work on a one to one basis, delivering "just rewards" to those who have been directly involved in causing evil, as JOB noted in the Bible and as we can note watching global warming play out. The terrible truth is that it is the POOR, the MOST VULNERABLE, who are the first to suffer. The wealthy built their homes on higher ground, had better information, more insurance, and more avenues of escape. So whether it is in facing the rising waters in Bangladesh or Malaysia or Lousiana and Missippi, it's going to be "the least among us" who will suffer most immediately. This is why it is inappropriate to blame the victim: because the way the world has been created, the consequences of past social injustice, war and ecological irresponsibility come to a whole planet--because from the cosmic perspective we are one, we are all interdependent—and those who suffer most are often not even those who are most culpable. Ditto with environmental cancers—it's often not the oil company executives but poor people living in proximity to the air and water polluted by corporate irresponsibility and abetted by the lawmakers who depend on corporate contributions and pay them back by imposing the weakest possible environmental regulations.

    When some Christian fundamentalists talk about these as signs of the impending doom of the planet, they are laughed off as irrational cranks. It's true that these fundamentalists see no connection between the doom and the environmental irresponsibility that the politicians they support have brought us. But nevertheless, their perception that we are living at "the end of time" can't be dismissed by those of us who know that the life support systems of this planet are increasingly "in danger" if politics continues the way it has been going, with politicians in BOTH parties capitulating regularly to the ethos of selfishness and materialism that is sustained by our corporate plunderers but is validated by the votes of ordinary citizens.

    Yet the fundamentalist message is deeply misleading also, because it seems to suggest that all this is out of our hands, part of some divine scheme. But it's not. The biblical version is quite different from what they say: it insists that the choice between life and death is in our hands. After laying out the consequences of abandoning a path of justice and righteousness, the Torah makes it clear that it is up to us. CHOOSE LIFE, it tells us. That choosing of life means transforming our social system in ways that neither Democrats nor Republicans have yet been willing to consider—toward a new bottom line of love and caring, kindness and generosity, ethical and ecological responsibility, and awe and wonder at the grandeur of the universe replacing a narrow utilitarian approach to Nature.

    --Rabbi Michael Lerner
    Editor, Tikkun and co-chair (with Cornel West and Sister Joan Chittister) of the Tikkun Community
    author, The Left Hand of God (forthcoming in January from HarperSanFrancisco)
    www.tikkun.org


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Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 03:54 AM

"they didn't listen, they're not listening still.

I guess they never will"

Vincent......Don McLean.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 07:27 AM

dianavan,

"Land owners have a greater say than renters"

Only in that they ( may) be a larger number. Her in the US, one gets to vote whether one ones property or not... A small development you may have overlooked, and a change since the 18th century.

My point was that the reason that the HOTEL GUESTS had buses and the LOCAL RESIDENTS did not was NOT due to race, and the use of race does nothing to help solve the ( obvious) problems.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 07:36 AM

..."owns property"...


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Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: dianavan
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 12:24 PM

beardedbruce - I too, do not believe that this is a racial problem but a social problem. It just so happens that those on the bottom rung are mostly Black.

Your post implied that renters were not residents.

I replied that land owners and renters are both residents but that land owners have more power. Yes, everyone has a vote but a vote is not the only power an individual. Land owners (being wealthier) also have more free time to lobby and become political at many different levels.

Your assumption that rich and poor have the same amount of political power is wrong.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 05:04 PM

Stadium housing is less than 1% of the displaced poor but are ideal for media focus.


Reliable media reports of just under 20,000 people at the stadium.

Are there really 2 million people left in a city that was mostly evacuated before the hurricane?

The 2000 census put the population of Greater New orleans as 1.3 million.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Amos
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 05:10 PM

"I don't think this is a simple tale of incompetence. The reason the military wasn't rushed in to help along the Gulf Coast is, I believe, the same reason nothing was done to stop looting after the fall of Baghdad. Flood control was neglected for the same reason our troops in Iraq didn't get adequate armor.

At a fundamental level, I'd argue, our current leaders just aren't serious about some of the essential functions of government. They like waging war, but they don't like providing security, rescuing those in need or spending on preventive measures. And they never, ever ask for shared sacrifice.

Yesterday Mr. Bush made an utterly fantastic claim: that nobody expected the breach of the levees. In fact, there had been repeated warnings about exactly that risk.

So America, once famous for its can-do attitude, now has a can't-do government that makes excuses instead of doing its job. And while it makes those excuses, Americans are dying. "

Paul Krugman, NY Times 9-2-05


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Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 08:23 PM

Donuel

Our sun will burn out in 6 billion years, but before that, in about 4 billion years, our galaxy collides with another...


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Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Peace
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 08:37 PM

Fire insurance and collision insurance. It's the only answer.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Peace
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 08:39 PM

It is obvious now that the city should have been evacuated. What plans will be made in the future to ensure that transport is available for all people and that all people will be forced to evacuate? That is a question that needs consideration, IMO.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: artbrooks
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 08:46 PM

If someone wants to leave, the transportation should be available for them to do so; and so far I have heard a lot of negative speculation but I seen nothing at all that says whether it was there or not. However, I would not like to be the individual charged with going from house to house and forcing people from their homes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Kaleea
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 08:47 PM

Imagine if all the energy we spend opining (of which I am guilty) were instead spent upon positive actions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Cluin
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 08:53 PM

That would throw things all out of balance, Kaleea. And Nature abhors a vaccuum. What would slouch forth to fill its place?

Better the devil you know.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Azizi
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 11:02 PM

Is it true that the Red Cross wasn't allowed in New Orleans after the hurricane??

See excerpts from this dailykos diary:
[Red Cross NEVER allowed into New Orleans. by SteveRose
Fri Sep 2nd, 2005]

"...This whole week has been so depressing. My Red Cross donation was one bright spot. At least I had done something to help.

Then, after reading dKos and the other blogs all week and seeing over and over again comments that that FEMA and the NG were no where to be seen from the people on the ground in NO, I was wondering where the Red Cross was in all this. They were never mentioned. It was like they didn't exist. And, after yesterday's drama at the convention center, the Brown and Chertoff lies, the Red Cross was still MIA. Then, earlier today, I saw a note that the Red Cross was not allowed to enter NO. Hmm, that's doesn't make sense. This simmered for a couple hours.

So I called the Red Cross and asked them if its true....

And, to my surprise, the nice lady answering the phone said it was true and they told/asked/ordered not to enter NO. She then went right into her spiel about all the other work the Red Cross was doing across the region. I said that's nice, but I still didn't understand why they weren't in NO. To my amazement, she patiently explained it to me. I even called back to verify what she said. This time she asked if I was media, I said no, just a concerned and confused contributor.

So here goes: Homeland Security (her term, not mine) told the Red Cross DO NOT enter New Orleans and says this still now. And why, you may ask? Not Security. Not worker safety. Not lack of access. It was because people would be drawn to the Red Cross food and they wouldn't want to go to be evacuated. So I asked: "The people starving and dying at the convention center yesterday couldn't get Red Cross food and water because they would be drawn to the food at the convention center, where they were, and not want to be evacuated from the convention center where no evacuations were going on or planned and all the while they are dying". (Actually, it was a couple questions.) She went back into her spiel about all of the other good work they were doing. When I asked again, she said yes, that was true. She seem relieved to admit it.

In closing, I asked if she asked this question before since she was very familiar with the answer she gave. She said yes..."

-snip-

Click HERE for comments from dailykos bloggers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Azizi
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 11:23 PM

The Red Cross website has a Frequently Asked Question page that responds to the question "Why is the Red Cross not in New Orleans?"

Here is that relief organization's answer to that question:

"Hurricane Katrina: Why is the Red Cross not in New Orleans?


Acess to New Orleans is controlled by the National Guard and local authorities and while we are in constant contact with them, we simply cannot enter New Orleans against their orders.

The state Homeland Security Department had requested--and continues to request--that the American Red Cross not come back into New Orleans following the hurricane. Our presence would keep people from evacuating and encourage others to come into the city.

The Red Cross has been meeting the needs of thousands of New Orleans residents in some 90 shelters throughout the state of Louisiana and elsewhere since before landfall. All told, the Red Cross is today operating 149 shelters for almost 93,000 residents.

The Red Cross shares the nation's anguish over the worsening situation inside the city. We will continue to work under the direction of the military, state and local authorities and to focus all our efforts on our lifesaving mission of feeding and sheltering.

The Red Cross does not conduct search and rescue operations. We are an organization of civilian volunteers and cannot get relief aid into any location until the local authorities say it is safe and provide us with security and access.

The original plan was to evacuate all the residents of New Orleans to safe places outside the city. With the hurricane bearing down, the city government decided to open a shelter of last resort in the Superdome downtown. We applaud this decision and believe it saved a significant number of lives.

As the remaining people are evacuated from New Orleans, the most appropriate role for the Red Cross is to provide a safe place for people to stay and to see that their emergency needs are met. We are fully staffed and equipped to handle these individuals once they are evacuated."


Red Cross Site


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Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Azizi
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 11:34 PM

Babies, children, women, and men in the New Orleans Convention Center and elsewhere in that city have died and are dying because they haven't had food or water.

Many of the people still in New Orleans have no cars of their own and no money to purchase other means of transportation out of the city, if such transportation could have been found. To blame them for not leaving that city on their own before the hurricane struck is beyond insensitive.

When I donated to the Red Cross I assumed that this relief organization was providing support to the people who are still waiting to be evacuated from New Orleans.

I guess my assumption was wrong.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Azizi
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 11:52 PM

And given the fact that tourists from the USA and other nations loved to visit New Orleans and many flew into that city [and didn't rent cars while they were there], one can also assume that there are tourists who were unable to leave that city when the evacuation order was made.

Since the Red Cross isn't allowed to go into New Orleans, presumably these tourists have also been without food and water. Unless they "found" some.


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