BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: PoppaGator
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 11:55 PM

This storm was "predictable," but only about 24-36 hours before it hit. It was a category 1 hurricane when it crossed the Florida peninula a few days earlier. When it got into the overheated Gulf of Mexico, it suddenly ballooned to huge proportions.

We left work Friday afternoon without taking any of the usual hurricane precautions. Computers were left turned on and on the floor Two days before the storm hit, it was not perceived as a threat at all.

Change of subject: In this morning's newspaper here in Paducah, KY, I saw a friend stranded in New Orleans in an AP wirephoto. I tried to find a copy on the internet so I could post a link ~ no luck. I'll just have to describe it:

Bob Rue is a fellow member of our Mardi Gras club, the Krewe of Mama Roux. Actually, since Peggy and I are the currently reigning king and queen of Mama Roux (perhaps the last ever), we could say he's one of our "subjects." He owns an oriental rug store and stayed in town to protect his business. The photo shows hm shirtless and sweating in the doorway of his shop, with this message spray-painted on the plywood boarding up his display window:

DON'T EVEN TRY
I AM SLEEPING INSIDE
WITH A BIG DOG
AN UGLY WOMAN
TWO SHOTGUNS
AND A CLAW HAMMER.

Ah, the indominatible spirit of wiseass humor!

One more thing: Check this site, a "blog" and webcam being maintained by the staff of a small local ISP who stayed in town and are telling us what's really happening on the ground:

http://www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor/

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Peace
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 12:18 AM

Thanks for the link to that, PG. Very happy you're safe.

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Amos
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 12:19 AM

Thanks, PG> I tell ya, the dramatic contrast between CNN, Fox and the guys in that ISP team are somethin'.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: LadyJean
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 12:20 AM

Go to www.partylaunch.com/hurricanehelp, and find out how to host a house party to aid hurricane victims. All money will go to legitimate organizations that are doing what the government is supposed to do but can't be bothered. Kvetching is fine, but sometimes you have to do something.

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 12:48 AM

There are several Queenslanders and many other Australians in NO. Some of them have already made it onto TV here. One guy (with his wife) was saying 'Johnny Howard, where are you?" - that has been getting a lot of airplay! Another clip of him (played less often) when asked what he was doing for food and water, replied with typical Aussie Larikanism/Honesty - "Looting!".

Several others have had famililes locally with who they have made contact advise that the only supplies they have been getting is by stealing - no other method is possible.

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 10:36 AM

Azizi, thank you for clarifying the Red Cross "stand down" order.
It is the National Guard's respondsibility. We all know where they are.

When Hurricaine Camille hit the south, Nixon had troops at the sites of devestation inside 3 days. The standing flood waters of New Orleans added only 1 day before the first National Guard response reached the Stadium.


I wish to revise my remark: "Stadium housing can hold less than 1% of the displaced poor."

I should have said "Stadium shelter". It served only as a last resort shelter from the wind and rain and was not prepared to house anyone with food water and sanitation. People probably expected housing but with only 24 hours to prepare, shelter was all to be had.

The Texas stadium is trying to provide basic emergency housing needs.

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 11:01 AM

With the arrival of more buses and as the closest stadiums fill I won't be surprised at all to hear of stadiums in Oklahoma City, El Paso, and Albuquerque eventually housing refugees.

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 11:34 AM

I am waiting for the first protest from the NFL.

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: artbrooks
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 03:37 PM

The one in Albuquerque doesn't have a roof.......

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 03:38 PM

"This storm was "predictable," but only about 24-36 hours before it hit."

There's predictable in the sense of being able to say exactly where it was going to hit and how bad it was going to be, and what Poppagator said there was clearly true, at least in terms of what people had been told.

But there's also predictable in the sense of it being known that Category Five hit the US mainland every few years - and that the levees had not been built to an adequate standard to deal with a storm of that magnitude. And that adequate evacuation procedures and facilities had not been prepared in advance in case one of those Category Five hurricanes came to New Orleans, with its particular low-lying problems.

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 03:58 PM

Here is a link to an impassioned but objective piece by BBC correspondent Matt Wells - New Orleans crisis shames Americans

It's well worth reading in full - here are the first few paragraphs:

At the end of an unforgettable week, one broadcaster on Friday bitterly encapsulated the sense of burning shame and anger that many American citizens are feeling.

The only difference between the chaos of New Orleans and a Third World disaster operation, he said, was that a foreign dictator would have responded better.

It has been a profoundly shocking experience for many across this vast country who, for the large part, believe the home-spun myth about the invulnerability of the American Dream.

The party in power in Washington is always happy to convey the impression of 50 states moving forward together in social and economic harmony towards a bigger and better America.

That is what presidential campaigning is all about.

But what the devastating consequences of Katrina have shown - along with the response to it - is that for too long now, the fabric of this complex and overstretched country, especially in states like Louisiana and Mississippi, has been neglected and ignored.

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: bobad
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 07:06 PM

More tragedy:

Sunday, September 4, 2005 · Last updated 3:42 p.m. PT

Police kill five as contractors attacked

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

NEW ORLEANS -- Police shot and killed at least five people Sunday after gunmen opened fire on a group of contractors traveling across a bridge on their way to make repairs, authorities said.

Deputy Police Chief W.J. Riley said police shot at eight people carrying guns, killing five or six.

Fourteen contractors were traveling across the Danziger Bridge under police escort when they came under fire, said John Hall, a spokesman for the Army Corps of Engineers.

They were on their way to launch barges into Lake Pontchartrain to help plug the breech in the 17th Street Canal, Hall said.

None of the contractors was killed, Hall said.

The bridge spans a canal connecting Lake Pontchartrain and the Mississippi River.

No other details were immediately available.

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 07:48 PM

Here's what that guy with the blog says about the bridge shootings...


"Law enforcement have absolutely lost their minds. Some guy wearing khaki fatigues and black vests which say Police on them have their faces covered in black ski masks and are touting M4-A1s with front hand grips -- like they're some kind of Delta Force operators waiting to hit the tire house. They're guarding the four corners around the Bell South building for crying out loud. And what, they need secret identities? Come on. You can just tell some of these guys have never gotten out before. Now's their big chance to play Army"

"I hope these are false rumors, but we're hearing that the people who were shot on the bridge were Army Corps of Engineer. I told you these military wannabes were gonna get someone hurt. Someone needs to real in these paramilitary types."

http://www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor/

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Amos
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 08:07 PM

From and Assciate Professor at Tulane, sent today (Sunday, September 4, 2005)

>OK. Here is the latest from STP.
>   
> What this office has done in conjunction with the Fire Districts, National
>Guard, Red Cross and gobs of volunteers from Quebec, Ohio, Washington,
>Indiana, etc is beyond remarkable.
>   
> FEMA has yet to show its shit-ass face here. That branch of government is
>an absolute disgrace. We have done it all without FEMA. No appreciable
>supply of food, ice, tarps or fuel.
>   
> The roads of STP are all basically passable. Only a few remain confined to
>one lane. They say we are 70 % back. My guess is that by the time you arrive
>in the next week or so that you will wonder if, indeed, there ever was a
>hurricane. You have no clue what the Fire Districts have done. I strongly
>suggest and ask all you to simply take the time to consider making a meal or
>cake or both for your respective Station in your area. They are flipping
>incredible.
>   
> The National Guard is now all over the place. Its crews are also busting
>hump to pick up debris. They have big cranes and other equipment.
>Impressive. Quick. Clean. Professional. I am very lucky and proud to witness
>these guys at work.
>   
> Power is on in many places. There are nasty rumors that power will be on
>from Mandeville to Madisonville south of I-12 next week. Remember this is
>only a rumor.
>   
> POwer is on all along Hwy 21 north of I-12. Same for 190 to Claiborne Hill.
>Power is on throughout Covington. It is slowly creeping out beyond the major
>thoroughfares.
>   
> There is just so much to do.
>   
> Water and sewer is basically coming back strong. Southeast Water is almost
>back to full strength. Utilities Inc. is the same.
>   
> Gas is still available but line are long. Apparantly computer access is
>difficult, so gas is bought by cash only. This is creating problems of
>course.
>   
> Wal-Mart, Winn-Dixie, Rouses, Aquistapaces are all open. Walgreens and CVS
>are open.
>   
> Life is returning.
>   
> All hospitals are up and running: Heart Hospital, Slidell Memorial, St.
>Tammany, Lakeview.
>   
> Red Cross is kicking ass. They turned out 36,000 hot meals today from their
>stationary kitchens, plus God knows how many from its mobile units that
>travel from neighborhood to neighborhhood.
>   
> There are temporary shelters every in the Parish that currently are housing
>7,500 people. These shelters are primarily in public schools, so that means
>that no school until at least October 1 or until people go home.
>   
> Volunteers from out of state are pouring in. Today, 150+ men from North
>Carolina arrived and fanned out to do people's private driveways. I
>understand that they absolutely butchered trees along Hwy 59 in Mandeville
>and wiped out problems in lower Slidell. They are appparently an organized
>mass of worker bees who attack an area with avengence. I did not see it, but
>the stories at our nightly meeting bring tears to your eyes when you think
>about people who have been trapped for a week.
>   
> Then there are the Church groups who have the same chain-saw gangs. They
>also provide meals and clothing.
>   
> These groups come in with their own heavy equipement. With a signed
>release, they will cut away and remove trees from atop your home. They will
>cut and clear your driveway.
>   
> Guys and gals, this is incredible. It is organized and orchestrated from
>this office. Our team is great and it has been held together by Mr. Davis
>and CAO Bill Oiler. And yet, FEMA has not arrived.
>   
> I have just received word that 63 generators have been delivered for
>distribution to the various shelters. There is also a caravan of 4 tankers
>of 6,400 gallons of water arriving in a few minutes. This is typical of what
>we see every hour on the hour. And it is being done by this group at EOC.
>   
> Slidell and Lacombe are still in trouble. Some streets are still blocked
>and people are trapped.
>   
> Now, on another note, I made two trips to New orleans today. Yes, two.
>Across the Causeway to uptown to look for my family. I could not find them
>on the first trip, but upon my return to Covington, I learned that someone
>was in dire straits, so I returned with 5 gallons of diesel to help someone
>out. I crossed the Causeway twice. It is in bad shape and both ends of the
>span; the water action has separated the north end elevated portion from the
>land portion. Same for the south end. There is approximately a four to ten
>foot section missing from each end.
>   
> As for the City, there are many, many trees down. Mostly oaks along St.
>Charles Ave. Nowhere near the devastation on the northshore, though.
>   
> No people on the streets. Eerily empty, but for sporadic police vehicles.
>   
> Military helicopters everywhere. Sporadic smoke rising from fires around
>the City. Weird feeling.
>   
> There are huge copters air-lifting people from the I-10 @ causeway roadway.
>I stopped and watch 20 to 25 people load up and be whisked away.
>   
> Copters are re-fueling from big air transports over the Lake. Very
>interesting to watch.
>   
> Roads are still flooded. Airline Highway is flooded under the Causeway.
>Cars are still stranded in the lanes of traffic. I spoke with a guy this
>afternoon who described how he was at his shop near the Quarter and he
>watched how the water came down Canal Street when the levee broke.
>   
> Anyway, this is the latest report.
>   
> I hope to up-date you soon with better and better news. I just can't tell
>you when to return.
>   
> I guess we'll know all is in order when soccer starts...
>
>

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Amos
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 08:10 PM

ANd from another correspondent who grew up in the NO area:

>I am taking the time out to write this note to this group for a number of
>reasons. One, because I know that the collective intelligence of this group
>is such that you want to know what is really happening, not what is only
>making the news wires or CNN. Secondly, it helps me to organize my thoughts,
>which to tell you the truth are not working that well. Third, perhaps my
>writings will help you understand what is going on down here --not just in
>New Orleans -- but in my hometown, and in other cities that are not even
>making the nightly news reports or the screen tickers.
>
>First, the facts are clear -- FEMA has done an
>completely reprehensible job in terms of responding to this disaster.
>Absolutely embarrassing. Positively disgusting. When I went home Friday I
>did not even go to the hardest hit areas in Mississippi. I did not even go
>into New Orleans.
>
>But where I did go was where hard-working people live every day. And they
>pay their taxes. And they have nice homes. Or rather they HAD nice homes.
>
>And their homes now are pretty much destroyed by either water and/or
>horrific tree damage.
>
>But that is just the beginning.
>
>NOWHERE was there any National Guard presence. Or Army. Or Air Force. Or
>squat. Absolutely nothing. My father told me that no one had come to his
>house to make sure he was okay. He had no information about food or water.
>He had talked to NO ONE.
>
>Instead the only police presence I saw the entire time I was on the
>Northshore was at the checkpoint into the more heavily damaged area of
>Slidell. You had to show ID to local police to get in.
>
>Oh, and then there was the situation at the hospital and the nursing home
>where my mother is -- or was. But that is a story for a bit later.
>
>In my own neighborhood, which is (was) a lovely older development, heavy
>with trees, our neighbors who are still there have not seen one bit of
>police presence, military, anything. I have to say that the Parish did bring
>in bulldozers to clear the streets of trees -- and that is good. We also
>have water pressure. Both are good in that at least a fire truck can now get
>to a fire and they have water to fight it with.
>
>But my point is that NO locality has the resources to handle the aftermath
>of such a storm without federal help. The police are too busy trying to
>rescue people, and just get the Parish up and running again. There is no way
>the local law enforcement officials can deal with something like this.
>
>And again, I'm not talking about rescuing people off roofs. I'm talking
>basic rescue from areas behind downed trees. People who are sick and have to
>get to a hospital. Basic rescue demands. Street clearing. Whatever.
>
>Troops should have been in place to come in and man these areas on Saturday.
>At the very least -- Sunday -- after the Director of the National Hurricane
>center PERSONALLY called the mayors of New Orleans and the towns along the
>Mississipi Gulf Coast, along with the moron at FEMA, advising them that from
>what they now saw, Katrina had the potential to be worse than Camille.
>
>Heck Ft. Polk is only 3 hours away, and as far as I know, NO troops from
>there have been sent to South Louisiana.
>
>So, on top of having to worry about food, water, and whether or not your
>house is livable, the people there have to worry that their belongings are
>going to be stolen out from under them in the middle of the night -- or the
>middle of the day for that matter.
>
>The night before we got into Covington, one of the neighbors at the front of
>the subdivision (an ex-Marine who is afraid of no one) was in his yard,
>picking up branches when he saw a car full of what he called "rednecks" with
>Alabama license plates drive into Riverwood. He told our neighbor that he
>didn't' even think twice. He walked right in front of them, and asked them
>who they were here to see. They mumbled something about a friend..and he
>told them to turn around and leave. After a stare-down, they backed up and
>left.
>
>That same night, our neighbors, yes, the ones who ride the riding lawn
>mowers and go to Saints football games, and who live the life that we in the
>US have come to take for granted, put together a 24/7 patrol at the front
>gate. And all of them were armed. Visibly. Shotguns, hand guns. You name it.
>
>Oh, and let's talk about Friday, and President Bush's little trip to New
>Orleans. I have good friends in the press in New Orleans, and I can tell you
>that photo ops were set up Friday to make things appear to look better than
>they really were -- both at the airport and at a "temporary feeding station"
>which, suddenly disappeared Saturday. Yes, it was put up on Friday and taken
>down on Saturday. All the activity that was shown across the country at the
>break in the levee? To show that the Feds were now "tackling the situation"?
>Saturday morning, activity came to a screeching halt.
>
>I cannot tell you what thoughts ran through my mind this morning when I
>watched with my own eyes when the fucking HEAD of Homeland Security said on
>national television that well, you know, on Tuesday and Wednesday, the
>headlines in the newspapers seemed to indicate that New Orleans had "dodged
>the bullet."
>
>I was so stunned I could hardly breathe.
>
>Do you understand the significance of this statement? The head of Homeland
>Security is keeping up on the greatest natural disaster in our lifetime by
>reading the fucking headlines?
>
>I don't know what is worse. The fact that he apparently did this. Or the
>fact that he admitted his abject stupidity on national television.
>
>As for my mother, I don't know what has happened to her at this point. She
>made it through the storm. My father had seen her. But it was 100 degree
>plus in the nursing facility (no generator) and he saw her faint twice in
>front of him. They kept telling him they were going to get AC.
>
>When we arrived at his house Friday, he told us that when he was out there
>Friday morning -- they had finally received a generator and that there was
>A/C.
>
>But, when we left my father's house and made our way carefully out to the
>nursing home Friday afternoon, we drove up to a sight that NONE of us needs
>to see. In front of Northshore Hospital, behind which is the nursing home,
>were at least five local and state police cars. Then, standing in front of
>these were various law enforcement types all heavily armed. Standing
>immediately in front of my car was a huge beefy guy in shorts with a gun the
>size of my head strapped to his thigh.
>
>A nurse came over to the car and I explained who I was and that we needed to
>see my mother. She informed me that the hospital and the home were under a
>"lock-down" and that no family or friends could enter.
>
>Okay -- here's what goes through my head. First, that something has happened
>in one of the facilities and they don't want anyone to see what has
>happened.
>
>Secondly -- I then think, well, maybe not. Maybe it's just a preventative
>measure.
>
>Third -- I wanted to see my mother.
>
>I didn't see my mother. Nor has my father seen her since then either.
>
>The nurse, who was the one who verified my suspicion that the beefy guy in
>shorts was the FBI, offered to take a note to my mother. As I figured this
>was my best alternative -- that is what I did, shaking my head at how upset
>she would be to know that we had managed to get down there and then could
>not get in.
>
>That is how we left the situation.
>
>There is no communication between here and there. My father, who lives on a
>street that has a direct electrical line into the other hospital in town,
>said that he was optimistic that his power would be on by Sunday, because of
>his "favored" position. A crew from Omaha was out there working on the
>mangled mess of wires when we were there Friday, but I really thought my
>father's estimate was way too optimistic.
>
>Since he had, until then, been able to see Mom, I knew that scorching heat
>or no heat, stinking refrigerator of bad food or not, he would probably stay
>there, hoping that electricity would come on this weekend.
>
>But -- he agreed that if he did not get electricity by Monday, he would
>drive up to Monroe. Yes, he told me he has enough gas to do so.
>
>At that point, we had to leave.
>
>This morning, I ran to Target to stock up on things I ran off without and
>have not had a chance to even think about for a week. David and I talked
>about ordering an aero bed, or whether we need to go get a mattress here in
>town. (He is sleeping on the bare floor, I am on an old mattress and box
>spring that was his mothers and which has seen better days.)
>
>When I returned, he told me that my father had called from a neighbor who
>apparently has phone service. He was distraught. He had not been able to see
>my mother at all for the last two days, and today, they informed him that
>she was no longer there. But they could not tell him where she was. Well, I
>can only imagine how that went over with him. Finally, apparently, they tell
>him that she was taken to Opelousas. (Sits about halfway in the middle of
>LA.)
>
>Why was she taken there? Is there something wrong with her? They wouldn't
>tell him. They DID NOT EVEN KNOW WHERE SHE WAS. They can't tell him if she
>is in a shelter, in a nursing home. NOTHING.
>
>Thankfully, he just called again about a half an hour ago. They finally
>determined where she had been taken -- and so now he is off tomorrow to find
>her -- and then drive up here.
>
>Meanwhile, let's talk again about FEMA.
>
>Why is it that the Federal government has not done ANYTHING to alleviate the
>gasoline shortage here? Trucks cannot get in with supplies, people are
>running out of gasoline on the Interstate, we are now having difficulty
>getting any gas here in Monroe. Supply and relief efforts are being
>seriously hampered by a lack of gasoline.
>
>But I don't read about this in the New York Times.
>
>The Federal government could easily do any number of things to put more gas
>in this part of the country. You all are bright people. You can, I'm sure,
>figure out why they are not. Then again, maybe they are waiting for the New
>York Times to write about it, before they figure out it is a problem.
>
>Meanwhile, the gas situation here in all of Mississippi and Louisiana is
>very, very, dire.
>
>I agree with a suggestion Sunday morning that was sent to me from a friend
>of mine about what Bush *should* have done Wednesday that would have shown
>true leadership. I can send you transcripts of comments made by that
>worthless piece of shit who is head of FEMA about how 'conditions were
>improving" and how the levee situation was "under control" on Wednesday. I
>can tell you about verified reports I have from friends in the media about
>how FEMA told rescuers to stop going out in boats to rescue people, about
>how shipments from Wal-Mart were blocked by FEMA, about how ....it just goes
>on and on.
>
>For those of you who saw "Meet the Press" this morning -- the interview with
>Aaron Broussard, the President of Jefferson Parish was too much to watch.
>Especially, juxtaposed as it was, with a video of Michael Chertoff's (AKA
>the worthless head of Homeland Security) comments about how he had just not
>been aware of how bad things were in New Orleans -- because the headlines
>Wednesday had indicated the city was fine.
>
>To add salt to the wounds? He could not even pronounce "New Orleans"
>properly. He said, "New Orleeeans." What a complete and total idiot.
>
>Our status here? I've got to get some things together for my dad's arrival.
>We have no place to put him now, but our next-door neighbor here has offered
>the use of a bed they are not using. David left two hours ago to get
>gasoline and I have yet to see him return -- he is going to try and return
>to Covington tomorrow if he can get gas. Why? Because he feels a duty to go
>down and help. Be it by cutting down crap in the neighborhood, helping
>patrol the neighborhood, by taking gas so those with generators will have
>some more power, taking down ice. Whatever.
>
>Oh, and then there is the garage full of my beloved plants. I saved two
>Friday from the 100 plus degree heat in there, taking them inside for much
>needed water. Hopefully if he goes down Monday he can drag out the rest and
>water them. Maybe some will survive. Tomatoes? Sickening sight. The fall
>crop of tomatoes was just starting to come online. We had lots of tomatoes
>just starting to get ripe. We had to rip out the plants last Sunday morning,
>because we had to dismantle the trellis system before we left.
>
>I think he plans on staying there tomorrow night.
>..........


A

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: pdq
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 09:01 PM

Somewhat earlier it was claimed that land owners have more power than those who do not own land. I looked it up and 70.1% of the people in Lousiana are land owners. Actually a bit above the national average. This bodes well for the future of the state even if New Orleans does not fully recover.

As far as responsibility for self-preservation goes, the individual is always number one. Nobody else can put you on a bus out if you choose not to go.

Second priority is the city government. They should have had contingency plans for fire, flood, hurricane, and any other disasters, natural or man-made. Every church or school bus should have been accounted for, and drivers have been available on short notice. Exact exit routes should have been mapped and destinations planned for.

Third priority is the state government. Technically, the US government must be asked by a given state to supply help. There is a formal legal procedure that must be followed. This is where the New Orleans disaster really begin to show incompetence. Governor Blanco had no clue what to ask for and she still doesn't.

Fourth is the US government, which must only do what it is asked to do in this type of emergency. They are not responsible for making contingency plans for each type of disaster in each state. They never have, never will, and never should.

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Peace
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 10:52 PM

"Fourth is the US government, which must only do what it is asked to do in this type of emergency. They are not responsible for making contingency plans for each type of disaster in each state. They never have, never will, and never should."

Makes it hard to explain FEMA and Homeland Security, then. (Not trying to pick an argument.)

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: pdq
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 11:16 PM

Until you know exactly what help Gov. Blanco asked for, you are only guessing. Bush is not the problem. He is not a cowboy heading a posse bent on slaying the guys with black hats. There are rules set up to protect the states from federal government abuse. If Ms. Blanco made spit-wads in civics class, she should have made up for it by studying same after being elected governor. The mess is largely her doing and she should resign as soon as the New Orleans mess is cleaned up.

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Peace
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 11:19 PM

Bush is not the problem. Bush is never the problem, is he?

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Peace
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 11:21 PM

True that the Governor should have asked for help from the Feds. Happened in the 'Civil Rights Era' if I recall. However, Bush IS your national leader, and he ain't been doing too much of that lately.

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: pdq
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 11:25 PM

With you and several others on Mudcat, he is always the problem, and the only problem. I guess that makes life easy. Really, as you said, not trying to pick a fight. How about some open-mindedness on the part of the Bush-bash crowd. There is plenty of blame to go around, if that is the goal.

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Peace
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 11:29 PM

"Despite the sheer magnitude of the disaster, homeland security expert Daniel Prieto said the federal government has to be prepared to pick up the slack when the private sector and state and local officials can't.

"The federal government is the protector of last resort. Dispassionately, that is where responsibility lies," said Prieto, research director for the homeland security partnership at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government.

"I think this really points out how far we have to go, even after 9/11, even though there was knowledge of this storm coming," Prieto said."

Do you think Bush acted well in all this, PDQ? Did he act the way you think he should have?

I do not always 'bash' Bush as you put it. But then, I know you don't always support him, right?

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Peace
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 11:37 PM

Federal Emergency Management Agency
Mission:

The Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) provides leadership and support to reduce the loss of life and property and to protect our institutions from all types of hazards through a comprehensive, risk-based, all-hazards emergency management program of mitigation, preparedness, response, and recovery.

Activities:


Provide continuing financial and technical assistance to State and local governments for natural hazard reduction activities.
Provide post-event grants to State and local governments, after presidentially-declared disasters, for identification of hazards and risks and implementation of hazard mitigation measures.
Prepare and disseminate information on hazard-resistant building codes and practices.
Prepare and execute training, education, and public awareness programs in natural hazard reduction.
Plan and coordinate activities of the National Earthquake Hazards Reduction Program and National Hurricane Program.
Coordinate and lead a Unified National Program for floodplain management.
Administer the National Flood Insurance Program, including hazard identification, risk assessment, implementation of loss reduction measures, and the provision of flood insurance.
Develop and coordinate the execution of federal response and recovery plans for disasters.

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: pdq
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 11:46 PM

Nice post, Bruce. I had not yet seen a mission statement from FEMA. You still miss the point. The state must ask for help and have detailed contingency plans for each type of disaster. The governor of Louisiana thinks that getting elected is an end in itself. Performance in office is not the goal with people like her.

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Peace
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 11:47 PM

Government of Canada's response to Hurricane Katrina
Fact Sheet

On August 28, a travel advisory was issued by Foreign Affairs Canada warning Canadians against all travel to the North Central Gulf Coast from Morgan City, Louisiana, eastward to the Alabama/Florida border, including the City of New Orleans and Lake Pontchartrain.
Foreign Affairs Canada also contacted Canadians in the area and provided consular assistance and guidance as needed. Canadians seeking emergency consular assistance in the area should contact the Emergency Operations Centre in Ottawa toll-free at 1 888 949-9993 or call collect [phone]. Canadians with good reason to believe that Canadian relatives are in the affected areas may contact the Emergency Operations Centre at 1 800 387-3124; [phone] in Ottawa; or by e-mail at [e-mail].
On August 29, the Deputy Prime Minister contacted U.S. Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff to express Canada's condolences and offer assistance in support of U.S. disaster relief efforts. The Prime Minister also subsequently released a similar statement, reinforcing Canada 's support.
The Government Operations Centre also went to a higher level of activation in anticipation of a possible request for assistance from U.S. officials.
On August 30, the Public Health Agency of Canada contacted its counterparts at the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services to offer assistance such as emergency medical supplies in the National Emergency Stockpile System.
On the same day, Consuls General in Atlanta and Texas spoke to the relevant governors to express Canada's support and concern for all those in the affected areas. The Consuls also spoke with the mayors of the affected cities and the heads of those emergency services operating in the disaster zones, reiterating Canada's offer of help.

To date, the U.S. federal government has made no requests for Canadian federal assistance; however, the Government of Canada stands ready to provide assistance if needed.

The International Energy Agency (IEA) member countries have been asked to support the supply shortages in the United States. Canada, as a member country, will be contributing 91,000 barrels of crude oil per day which can be met from existing supply.
American federal and state agencies and other organisations have been mobilised and are currently carrying out a full needs assessment in order to provide a comprehensive response to Hurricane Katrina.
Once U.S. resources are in place, the U.S. government will be in a better position to identify what kind of assistance, if any, they may require.
PSEPC is coordinating federal assistance efforts with the provinces and territories in the event that a formal request is made from the U.S. More than 30 federal departments are involved in these efforts, and PSEPC also has a liaison officer posted directly at DHS in Washington DC to ensure that the most up-to-date information is available.
PSEPC convened a conference call on August 31st with provincial and territorial counterparts to review and coordinate potential contributions to assist in disaster relief efforts. Under a joint memorandum of understanding between Canada and the U.S., assistance is to be coordinated between PSEPC and DHS.
On August 31st, General Rick Hillier, Chief of the Defence Staff (Canadian Forces), spoke to spoke his American counterpart, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Richard (Dick) B. Myers, and the U.S. Commander of Northern Command, Admiral Tim Keating. General Hillier indicated that wherever there was a need, they had only to ask and the Canadian Forces would have it rolling, sailing or flying south to stand side-by-side with Americans to bring relief or provide respite – and for however long efforts are required.
Our federal government officials have also talked with the Canadian Red Cross and Salvation Army to discuss their efforts and how we can support their initiatives.
The Government Operations Centre is continuing to closely monitor the situation and is maintaining regular contact with DHS/FEMA.

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Peace
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 11:52 PM

I am aware of that, pdq. I do know that Governors must ask for federal assistance--that the feds can't just march in. When Greyhound's stations (specifically washrooms) had to be 'desegrated' (the old HIS, HERS, OTHER designations had to go), it was not because the Constitution was being violated, but rather because Greyhound crossed State lines, thus making it fall under federal authority.

I would like to know when the Louisiana governor asked for federal help. I will go look.

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Peace
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 11:54 PM

Request here. Dated August 27, 2005.

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 02:13 AM

Third priority is the state government. Technically, the US government must be asked by a given state to supply help. There is a formal legal procedure that must be followed. This is where the New Orleans disaster really begin to show incompetence. Governor Blanco had no clue what to ask for and she still doesn't.

And it also shows where the incompetence of the Federal government was in this case, because anyone with any sense at all and who knows the procedure could have told Governor Blanco what she needed to know in terms of what the procedure was.

Just how totally irresponsible does a government official have to be to say, "You didn't ask me correctly, so I'm not going to help you. And I'm not going to tell you how to ask correctly either. If you don't know, it's your tough luck".

Criminally irresponsible, I'd say.

All they had to do was to tell her the correct procedure if she didn't know it. PEOPLE'S LIVES WERE AT STAKE!

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 02:19 AM

Peace's link seems to make it clear help was asked for very early but I'm curious over some of this.

In Bush, we have a man who is quite free to appoint himself judge, jury and excetutioner over the rest of the world, a person who can start ilegal wars based on lies, can decide who is or isn't patriotic in his own country, etc.

But if there is an emergency in his own country, he would be forced to sit down watching reports on tv as a situation worsened over days, powerless to act until asked to do so?

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 07:24 AM

It might not be the job of your federal government to organise regional and local plans for responding to emergencies, but it sure as hell is its responsibility to make sure those plans exist and are adequate.

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Azizi
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 07:34 AM

Are people planning a New Orleans land grab??

How will people who are displaced by the hurricane prove that they own their property???

Here's a comment from dailykos about that:

"...I'm imagining that some people are going to find themselves in the position of having nothing but their word and maybe the word of some witnesses to atest to the ownership of homes and property that might have been in the family for multiple generations. Lacking fingerprints on file somewhere, how will many people even prove who they are? And then there are the children newly bereaved who are too young to look after their own interests and might not even clearly know what their interests are.

It seems cold to be worried about the property rights when people are still waiting to be rescued, but I don't want to see people already displaced by a hurricane then dispossessed by a perfect storm of bank and developement interests.

by martianchronic on Sun Sep 4th, 2005"

-snip-

Read more
HERE on that topic. That link leads to a dailykos diary that provides an account of how California Congresswoman Maxine Waters and others took it upon themselves to rescue 150 New Orleans "refugees" and transport them to an empty Louisiana shelter that had been waiting 2 days [!!] for people from New Orleans and surrounding communities.

Maxine Waters-a remarkable woman!

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 08:40 AM

If one ever calls Bush to task - they are said to be engaged in Bush bashing.

If the buck does not stop there, if the Presidency is not a symbol of respondsibility - WHO is?

Deflecting respondsibility is the administration's best and only game plan when it comes to post incident plans.

Here is my latest edited contribution of counter-propoganda on the subject:

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/attic2.jpg

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: pdq
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 04:40 PM

...from the 04 Sep 05 - 11:54 post (link) dealing with Ms. Blanco's request to the president for help:

"In response to the situation I have taken appropriate action under State law and directed the execution of the State Emergency Plan on August 26, 2005 in accordance with Section 501 (a) of the Stafford Act. A State of Emergency has been issued for the State in order to support the evacuations of the coastal areas in accordance with our State Evacuation Plan and the remainder of the state to support the State Special Needs and Sheltering Plan."

Please read the entire request.

Also note, once again, the emergency plans are generated and controlled by state emergency agencies. The feds help where they are asked to help but they do not, buy law, have the authority to run the show.

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 04:46 PM

The poorest of the poor, who haven't been mentioned at all--there will be an aftermath for them also.

Cason Announces Initial BIA Response to Aid Tribal Victims of Hurricane Katrina
link

WASHINGTON – Interior Associate Deputy Secretary James E. Cason announced today that the Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA) has undertaken its initial response to assisting tribes in the Gulf Coast states who are victims of Hurricane Katrina. There are six federally recognized tribes located in Alabama, Louisiana and Mississippi who were impacted by the powerful storm. "Our hearts and prayers go out to the victims of this devastating event and their families," Cason said. "The Bureau of Indian Affairs, along with other Interior Department agencies, is working directly with affected tribal communities in assessing and responding to their public safety, emergency access and emergency services needs."

The affected communities belong to the Poarch Creek Band in Alabama, the Chitimacha Tribe, Coushatta Indian Tribe, Jena Band of Choctaw and Tunica-Biloxi Tribe in Louisiana, and the Mississippi Band of Choctaw Indians in Mississippi. While all of the tribes were left with varying degrees of wind and rain damage, the Choctaws' tribal government offices in Philadelphia, Miss., and several, largely rural communities lay directly in the storm's path resulting in extensive physical damage and loss of telephone service and power.

The BIA's Eastern Regional Office, headquartered in Nashville, Tenn., and Choctaw Agency in Philadelphia are coordinating their recovery efforts with the Mississippi Choctaw tribal government, which include arranging for fresh water to be trucked in from Arkansas, utilizing agency road equipment to help clear debris from roadways, exploring ways to bring in supplies of ice, fuel and food, and assigning law enforcement personnel to protect lives and property.

The BIA Office of Law Enforcement Services (OLES) personnel arrived at the Choctaw reservation shortly after midnight on Tuesday with a Mobile Command Vehicle and Emergency Response Task Force (ERT) to assist Choctaw police with their recovery efforts. Downed trees and power lines impeded their ability to reach the reservation quickly.

The Bureau also is evaluating requests from the affected tribes for financial assistance to help with their recovery efforts. For example, the Chitimacha Tribe is caring for upwards of 400 tribal members who had been living in New Orleans and are now homeless.

"The BIA is committed to helping these communities get back on their feet," Cason said. "We will continue to do all we can to meet that goal."

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Peace
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 04:58 PM

I get the impression that some people think Bush has behaved appropriately during all this. Would it be appropriate to request a show of hands?

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Sorcha
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 05:02 PM

Thumbs down.

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 05:02 PM

Read the entire request yourself, pdq. The reason the Governor listed the kinds of emergency responses that the state was providing was so that, under law, she could show that the state was doing everthing it could, and that that was not enough, and that they needed further help from the federal government. Here's the part where she requested that help...


"Pursuant to 44 CFR � 206.35, I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster. I am specifically requesting emergency protective measures, direct Federal Assistance, Individual and Household Program (IHP) assistance, Special Needs Program assistance, and debris removal."

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: pdq
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 05:13 PM

...again, "Federal assistance", not "Federal takeover".

The Feds may be able to take over control of the situation if martial law is declared, but otherwise, the control center is the governor's office in the State of Louisiana. Ms.Blanco and her emergency disaster coordinator were given all the tools they needed to do the best job possible, albeit under difficult circumstances. Most Mudcatters feel a failure has occurred. Why don't some of you demand that she resign?

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 05:27 PM

Clearly they didn't have all the resources they needed. That's why they requested assistance from the Federal government. And it wouldn't have been necessary for the Feds to "take over" in order for them to have made an enormous difference. They could have provided all kinds of support without taking control. They did not do so. In fact, they provided no assistance whatever, and they even made the situation worse by turning away much needed supplies like water and fuel, cutting the communications lines of the local emergency people, and turning away volunteers from other places who had come to the area to help.

And it does merit pointing out that about a third of the local National Guard, along with its equipment, is currently in Iraq. The local National Guard was being stretched to its limits as it was.

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 05:30 PM

And the reason I don't request that she resign is because I live in Alabama. So if we get a major disaster here where I live, it's not the governor of Louisiana who will determine the outcome. But it's entirely possible that FEMA will. And that prospect scares me quite a lot.

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: pdq
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 05:50 PM

Ms. Blanco and her director of disaster emergency had all the tools they needed because those tools INCLUDED all of the resources of our federal government. Is that so hard to understand?

The National Guard is never fully deployed to one area. They must have a reasonable number of soldiers to cover additional emergencies. There is not one shred of evidence that having some Guardsmen in Iraq had any affect on the deployment in New Orleans. Troops from California or Maine can be in Louisiana in a matter of hours if that is what the state requests.

Ms. Blanco also made an idiotic statement that "National Guard should thke over the job of shooting looters so that our police can get on with the job of feeding and rescuing citizens". What crap! I was a member of the National Guard in the early 1970's and nobody joined to shoot American citizens! In this type of emergency, a few selected and specially trained soldiers may be issued bullets, and these people may be required to shoot people who shoot at their fellow Guardsmen, most of whom are not armed or are not issued bullets.

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Peace
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 05:55 PM

pdq, is it your position then that the feds have nothing to do with all this? No responsibility whatsoever? That none of this is Bush's business?

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 06:06 PM

Ms. Blanco and her director of disaster emergency had all the tools they needed because those tools INCLUDED all of the resources of our federal government. Is that so hard to understand?

Well, they were supposed to include all of the resources of the federal government, but those resources were not forthcoming, so while they were availble, de jure, they were not de facto available. They were "available" in name only. And this is where the federal government fell down. They didn't provide the assistance that they were obligated to provide. That's why I'm criticizing the federal government on this one.

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: pdq
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 09:37 PM

A bit more about Ms. Blanco's also idiotic statement that "National Guard should take over the job of shooting looters so that our police can get on with the job of feeding and rescuing citizens"

Apparently, fully 1/3 of all the New Orleans police have "gone missing". Seems like they are happy to draw a large salary for writing parking tickets and such, but have no intentions of putting themselves in harm's way during the anarchy. Not interested in pulling dead bodies out of trees or guarding medical convoys.

Can some of you figure a way to blame this on Bush? Probably.

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 10:49 PM

You don't win any points for your man Bush by making idiotic comments like those, pdq.

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Peace
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 11:14 PM

I read a few hours back that the 1/3 missing is not true.

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Peace
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 11:30 PM

However, that could be wrong.

"New Orleans Police Department Deputy Chief Warren Riley said only about 1,000 of the force's 1,641 officers were accounted for."

From here.

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: pdq
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 12:01 PM

Thanks, brewster. Using your numbers, 39% of New Orleans cops skipped out and left the city defenseless.

Want to guess what percent of National Guardsmen failed to show up for their assignment. Usually it is less than 1%.

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: Peace
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 02:01 PM

Well, because about 40% are in Iraq . . . . *grin*.

Subject: RE: BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH
From: pdq
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 02:05 PM

100th. *grin*