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Day of action for live music 19th July

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The Shambles 25 May 01 - 04:22 PM
Noreen 25 May 01 - 06:25 PM
The Shambles 26 May 01 - 05:24 AM
The Shambles 26 May 01 - 06:21 AM
The Shambles 03 Jul 01 - 02:19 PM
The Shambles 03 Jul 01 - 02:24 PM
McGrath of Harlow 04 Jul 01 - 10:24 AM
The Shambles 11 Jul 01 - 01:08 PM
The Shambles 11 Jul 01 - 01:17 PM
Noreen 12 Jul 01 - 11:27 AM
The Shambles 13 Jul 01 - 05:16 PM
The Shambles 14 Jul 01 - 02:18 PM
clansfolk 14 Jul 01 - 02:41 PM
The Shambles 15 Jul 01 - 03:23 PM
bill\sables 15 Jul 01 - 03:43 PM
paddymac 16 Jul 01 - 03:38 AM
Ringer 16 Jul 01 - 09:13 AM
The Shambles 16 Jul 01 - 10:04 AM
The Shambles 17 Jul 01 - 09:34 AM
McGrath of Harlow 17 Jul 01 - 03:56 PM
The Shambles 18 Jul 01 - 01:45 PM
Lonesome EJ 18 Jul 01 - 02:00 PM
The Shambles 18 Jul 01 - 03:08 PM
Noreen 18 Jul 01 - 09:11 PM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 19 Jul 01 - 04:22 AM
The Shambles 19 Jul 01 - 04:31 AM
Noreen 19 Jul 01 - 12:35 PM
The Shambles 19 Jul 01 - 01:55 PM
GeorgeH 19 Jul 01 - 02:30 PM
Richard Bridge 26 Jul 01 - 10:13 PM
Richard Bridge 27 Jul 01 - 07:56 AM
The Shambles 27 Jul 01 - 09:48 AM
The Shambles 27 Jul 01 - 01:51 PM
Richard Bridge 29 Jul 01 - 07:34 PM
The Shambles 29 Jul 01 - 07:48 PM
Richard Bridge 31 Jul 01 - 06:42 PM
The Shambles 31 Jul 01 - 07:22 PM
The Shambles 01 Aug 01 - 02:36 PM
The Shambles 01 Aug 01 - 03:06 PM
Richard Bridge 01 Aug 01 - 05:25 PM
The Shambles 01 Aug 01 - 06:11 PM
McGrath of Harlow 01 Aug 01 - 06:47 PM
The Shambles 03 Aug 01 - 03:41 PM
The Shambles 04 Aug 01 - 11:27 AM
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Subject: Day of action for live music 19th July
From: The Shambles
Date: 25 May 01 - 04:22 PM

From: Tim Walker [mailto:Tim@efdss.org]
Sent: 25 May 2001 14:49

IF YOU WANT LIVE MUSIC VENUES TO SURVIVE, LIVE MUSIC NEEDS YOU - ON THURSDAY 19 JULY!

The Government's proposals for licensing reform are not guaranteed to end the absurd treatment that many local gigs receive at the hands of local authorities.

The Home Office estimates that only 5% of licensed premises currently hold annual public entertainment licences. In effect, this means that a performance by three or more musicians would be a criminal offence for the proprietor in 95% of the UK's recreational premises.

This ludicrous situation is under-reported in the national press – but that could be changed. What are you doing on the afternoon of Thursday July 19th? Would you be interested in participating in an event to celebrate live music, and to draw media attention to the bizarre "two-in-a-bar rule"?

The message to the Government will be that future licensing legislation must recognise the value of live music for the whole community.

HOW WILL IT WORK?

The plan is that a variety of bands, which must be unamplified and portable (so no grand pianos!), will turn up at prearranged bars and pubs in central London and put on an 'impromptu' performance. In fact, venues will have been selected and briefed beforehand. Bandleaders will carry an info sheet advising licensees that if they don't hold a public entertainment licence the band should be asked to leave - in the nicest possible way, of course.

A full media briefing will precede the event and it is hoped that both national press and TV will attend, following some bands from venue to venue. Musicians of all kinds are needed. The event is being co-ordinated by the English Folk Dance and Song Society (EFDSS), and is endorsed by the Musicians Union, Jazz Services, and the Campaign for Live Music (CaLM).

The afternoon will close with performances outside Number 10 Downing Street, before crossing the road to the Red Lion for a drink followed by a party at EFDSS. The event is expected to run from 11.30am to 5.00pm.

If you are interested in participating please forward contact details to livemusic@efdss.org .

Please state what instrument(s) you play, the style of music, and whether you will bring along other musicians. Remember to include your full name, address and phone number as well as email address.

EFDSS will be dealing with public liability issues. However, if you join EFDSS for £26, you and your group will have full public liability insurance cover all year through the EFDSS insurance scheme. If you are interested, contact us for details.
Please pass this email on to anybody you know who feels strongly about live music

.

We look forward to hearing from you, Rupert Redesdale Development Officer & Tim Walker Chief Officer EFDSS
Cecil Sharp House
2 Regents Park Road
London NW1 7AY
Tel 0207 485 2206
Fax 0207 284 0534


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Subject: RE: Day of action for live music 19th July
From: Noreen
Date: 25 May 01 - 06:25 PM

Great idea! Looks like this could well get good publicity for the 'cause' and should be a really fun day too...

Who else is up for it?


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Subject: RE: Day of action for live music 19th July
From: The Shambles
Date: 26 May 01 - 05:24 AM

There is nothing to stop those who are unable to travel to London from organising their own local protest.

I would like to invite anyone who wishes to protest,help and make some music to The Cove House Inn, Chesil, Portland, Dorset on the 19th June.

As you may or may not know this session has been subject to The Local Authority preventing it, on the grounds that it is a public entertainment provided by the licensee, consisting of more than two 'performers'.

The licence has now been obtained but senseless conditions have now been placed on outside entertainment.

Senseless, as in the past there were objections made to an outside charity event, involving amplified music, that took place once a year.

Senseless, as there are no residents to the west of the pub except fish.

Senseless, as the condition prohibits any outside entertainment, even a mime act or a story-teller.

To bring attention to this in particular and the situation generally, I would suggest a protest where folk events take place outside and are recorded as being asked by the licensee, to come inside.

So all dance sides, storytellers and musicians etc, are invited to what we hope will be a very enjoyable protest, in a quite wonderful spot, where the children can take to the beach.


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Subject: RE: Day of action for live music 19th July
From: The Shambles
Date: 26 May 01 - 06:21 AM

Err? 19th July of course.

Sorry


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Subject: RE: Day of action for live music 19th July
From: The Shambles
Date: 03 Jul 01 - 02:19 PM

Day of action for full details.


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Subject: RE: Day of action for live music 19th July
From: The Shambles
Date: 03 Jul 01 - 02:24 PM

Trevor Gilson has provided a very good summary of the situation. Click here


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Subject: RE: Day of action for live music 19th July
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Jul 01 - 10:24 AM

Problem for a lot of people of course is this is a weekday during working hours. Most of the people I see at sessions locally will be unable to get along even if I can.

Anyone planning to go?


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Subject: RE: Day of action for live music 19th July
From: The Shambles
Date: 11 Jul 01 - 01:08 PM

Getting a little closer.

The latest twist locally is that our council have now stated that Morris dancing taking place on public house premises would require a Public Entertainment Licence.

Any staged at a public house without one, would be illegal.


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Subject: RE: Day of action for live music 19th July
From: The Shambles
Date: 11 Jul 01 - 01:17 PM

Council Bans Morris Dancing


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Subject: RE: Day of action for live music 19th July
From: Noreen
Date: 12 Jul 01 - 11:27 AM

refresh


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Subject: RE: Day of action for live music 19th July
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 Jul 01 - 05:16 PM

Is anyone able to come and play at The Cove on Thursday?


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Subject: RE: Day of action for live music 19th July
From: The Shambles
Date: 14 Jul 01 - 02:18 PM

See also UK Folkies the law


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Subject: RE: Day of action for live music 19th July
From: clansfolk
Date: 14 Jul 01 - 02:41 PM

No more Morris dancing in pub car parks? - that'll please Morris owners!!!!

Joking apart - lets hope the amendments planned and being reviewed at the moment actually bring some sense to the situation.... (I doubt it!) only the other day we were booked to play at a pub as a three piece - when we arrived we were billed only by the bass players name... our posters for the band had been removed why? the pub couldn't allow more than two artist to perform and was afraid "someone" would see the ads and he'd get into trouble.... MAD!

Can't get to London but if anything's arranged in the Lancashire area we'll go along

Come on M.U. I pay me subs - put the boot in

Pete


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Subject: RE: Day of action for live music 19th July
From: The Shambles
Date: 15 Jul 01 - 03:23 PM

The main problem is that we can't really believe that our local authorities are actually taking these actions.

Believe me they are and will continue to do so.

Any changes to legislation are unlikely to come into force for a number of years. By that time traditional events as we know them may not exist. It is that serious.

It is up to us all to demonstrate that we will not accept this current situation. Yes let us all make suggestions as to how this can best be done but all the expressed indignations in the world will not change anything.

We can't trust that anyone else will do this for us as no one else really understands or cares. It is up to us to make them understand and care.

We all have councillors, unions MPs the press and such.

Please for FOLK's sake do what you can.


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Subject: RE: Day of action for live music 19th July
From: bill\sables
Date: 15 Jul 01 - 03:43 PM

As I mentioned in another thread on the same subject, would there be any chance of approaching breweries, They stand to loose a lot of money if the morris dancers stop dancing at pubs and if folk clubs and sessions are stoped across the country I am sure their profits would go down consideribly. The Licenced Victulers Association would also be a handy organisation to have on our side. I don't think the governing bodies would be able to resist the preasure put on them if we had the backing of breweries and publicans


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Subject: RE: Day of action for live music 19th July
From: paddymac
Date: 16 Jul 01 - 03:38 AM

Many of us here on the west side of the pond will at least be there with you in spirit. I'll make it a point to hoist a pint in honor of the effort. Hey, it's my kind of "prayer thread." :>)


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Subject: RE: Day of action for live music 19th July
From: Ringer
Date: 16 Jul 01 - 09:13 AM

What time at the Cove House Inn on Thurs, Shambles? (I shan't be there but I know someone who may be...)


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Subject: RE: Day of action for live music 19th July
From: The Shambles
Date: 16 Jul 01 - 10:04 AM

Well usually it starts at 8pm every Thursday but the pub is open all day. So on the 19th anyone can who attend in the day will be most welcome to play all day.


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Subject: RE: Day of action for live music 19th July
From: The Shambles
Date: 17 Jul 01 - 09:34 AM

It would indeed be great help if the pub side of things were in agreement. Does anyone have any info on this?


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Subject: RE: Day of action for live music 19th July
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Jul 01 - 03:56 PM

I'll make it a point to hoist a pint in honor of the effort. Hey, it's my kind of "prayer thread."

That's a fine way of praying, paddymac. Better stop after the first decade.


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Subject: RE: Day of action for live music 19th July
From: The Shambles
Date: 18 Jul 01 - 01:45 PM

Here's hoping the day goes well and the protest gets the publicity it needs?

See you tomorrow?


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Subject: RE: Day of action for live music 19th July
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 18 Jul 01 - 02:00 PM

Good luck tomorrow Roger. You have my phone number if the Bill gives you your one telephone call. They say some of the best folk songs have come from behind prison walls, y'know.


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Subject: RE: Day of action for live music 19th July
From: The Shambles
Date: 18 Jul 01 - 03:08 PM

Can I make it collect?

Talking of songs click here SONG CHALLENGE HELP, have a bash?


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Subject: RE: Day of action for live music 19th July
From: Noreen
Date: 18 Jul 01 - 09:11 PM

Hope the day goes well- I'll look out for you on the news... :0)


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Subject: RE: Day of action for live music 19th July
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 19 Jul 01 - 04:22 AM

refresh and good luck.john


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Subject: RE: Day of action for live music 19th July
From: The Shambles
Date: 19 Jul 01 - 04:31 AM

This from Hamish Birchall today 19th July.

It looks as though the publicity generated by the EFDSS event today (musicians 'day of action') has exceeded our best hopes. I am being interviewed live on LBC (a London-based commercial radio station) in about an hour. Lord Redesdale, Development Officer for EFDSS, has already been recorded for ITN Radio news, and will have been on Radio 5 Live already this morning.

At 10.30 Sky TV's Pub Channel starts recording an 8-minute feature at a pub just round the corner from Cecil Sharp House. Their crew will follow at least one group of musicians for the whole event. Both Lord Redesdale, myself, and Tim Walker will participate.

At 2pm ITN News at Ten have asked us to be available at the Red Lion in Whitehall for interviews. The Times and The Guardian have also said they will attend, as will the Evening Standard. Tonight at 6.30 BBC Newsroom Southeast are doing a live broadcast from another London pub near EFDSS. Again I will be there, along with Redesdale and some musicians
.


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Subject: RE: Day of action for live music 19th July
From: Noreen
Date: 19 Jul 01 - 12:35 PM

News item on BBC Radio 4 PM programme just now about this, with interviews. Focussed more on 'up and coming' bands needing to play in pubs in order to be discovered, as Blur were, didn't mention musicians who want to play/sing for the fun of it...

Maybe we're lucky that the item was included at all, considering the amount of air time devoted to Jeffrey Archer's conviction.

Noreen


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Subject: RE: Day of action for live music 19th July
From: The Shambles
Date: 19 Jul 01 - 01:55 PM

Yes that and our US friends decided to send us a certain Mr Bush to London today.

The best laid plans.........


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Subject: RE: Day of action for live music 19th July
From: GeorgeH
Date: 19 Jul 01 - 02:30 PM

Who?

G.


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Subject: RE: Day of action for live music 19th July
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 10:13 PM

And?


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Subject: RE: Day of action for live music 19th July
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 27 Jul 01 - 07:56 AM

Refresh.

What actually happened and why is it not in the Daily Mirror?


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Subject: RE: Day of action for live music 19th July
From: The Shambles
Date: 27 Jul 01 - 09:48 AM

If you were there Richard you would not need to ask.

What is the extent of your postive contribution by the way?


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Subject: RE: Day of action for live music 19th July
From: The Shambles
Date: 27 Jul 01 - 01:51 PM

Richard I am sorry about the above, my response was not called for.


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Subject: RE: Day of action for live music 19th July
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Jul 01 - 07:34 PM

Fair cop guv. I have been offish about this issue, But it has been explained so as to create problems with persuading HMG.

I fought with HMG for about 10 years about copyright in the formats of TV shows (none)..

I fought with HMG and countless county councils for about 15 years about vehicular minor highways..

If you want to change the mind of gov't you have to offer them an out that is easier than the status quo. That means you have to have the press to make the status quo difficult, and sufficient understanding of the law AND HOW IT MIGHT BE CHANGED (sorry to shout) to show them the easy way out..

I thought you had the press. It seems they ratted..

I wanted to know what happened.

Surprise!.

As it happened I really wanted to go


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Subject: RE: Day of action for live music 19th July
From: The Shambles
Date: 29 Jul 01 - 07:48 PM

Guardian Article. Given the other events of the day, the event did receive some good coverage. Including a Times leader, no less. I will see if I can get the details.


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Subject: RE: Day of action for live music 19th July
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 06:42 PM

Yes, saw Guardian Thanks

I can try TImes site myself. THanks again

I see Hamish Birchall is diong a seminar on the topic at Tenterden (festival)adn I am hoping to get there - but it (reform of relevant licensing law) really needs proper legal chapter and verse on the black letter of the law - and sight of the opinions produced by Council erks for the councillors.

THen it needs proper legal opinion from suitable human rights lawyer - maybe Geoffrey Robertson - dealing with the ECHR point (which I don't buy, because no opinion or its expression is being restricted, only the number of oeople who can express it at any given time).

Then it needs a careful and saleable to government alternative. THis is the really hard part.

THis also needs regular refreshing as it is probably the most important issue affecting folk music in the UK at the moment.

I support the present campaign - but am sceptical about the way it is being pressed, and have not yet seen any solution proposed that hangs together.


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Subject: RE: Day of action for live music 19th July
From: The Shambles
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 07:22 PM

Only the exemption to the requirement, refers to the number of people.

OK, two peformers may not be having their rights restricted, but they are not exempt from the requirement because two performers are considered safe. So the grounds for the requirement preventing the performance cannot be safety.

The legislation itself i.e. the requirement for the public entertainment to have a PEL, is what is preventing the performance/free cultural expression.

That is my understanding, but I am just the banjo player.


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Subject: RE: Day of action for live music 19th July
From: The Shambles
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 02:36 PM

The Times 19th July 2001


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Subject: RE: Day of action for live music 19th July
From: The Shambles
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 03:06 PM

This is a summary of the media coverage following Thursday 19 July, Musicians 'day of action':

Jeffrey Archer's imprisonment stole some of our media thunder - News at Ten and BBC Newsroom South East both pulled their coverage because of that breaking story. But this is what we got:

LBC Radio - three live interviews
Radio 5 Live
ITN radio
Radio 3, Tim Walker of EFDSS interviewed live by Nicholas Kenyon
BBC Radio 4 - PM programme (5pm)
BBC Radio Gloucester
Three Counties Radio
Sky News
Sky Pub Channel
The Times (p 9 and leader p 19)
London Evening Standard (20 July, feature and pic)

Maev Kennedy of The Guardian followed up with an article about the Cove House Inn, Portland, and the problems caused by WPBC's PEL terms (July 28 - I think).


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Subject: RE: Day of action for live music 19th July
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 05:25 PM

That's good.

Someone needs to keep an archive, preferably accessible on-line for texts at least.

Can no-one get their hands on the briefing papers prepared by council lawyers for councillors to set out how clear the law is? Chapter and verse on the problem is vital if great opportunities like the Times are not to be wasted on rock bands, who need no protection whereas folk dies. As far as I have been able to find the root legislation (not the exemption) is not available free on the net. I do not have a copy of Patterson on Licensing law nor either set of Halsbury.

I will try to keep an eye out for an opportunity to borrw the necessary and copy extracts, but if anyone else can get there first, I recommend doing it, not least since I am getting back into a row about vehicular minor highways and probably one about the Rochester Sweeps' festival.


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Subject: RE: Day of action for live music 19th July
From: The Shambles
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 06:11 PM

Trevor Gilson's site HERE is keeping a good record of events and documents.


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Subject: RE: Day of action for live music 19th July
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 06:47 PM

And there's a letter in today's Guardian (August 1) making a reference to the two-in-a-bar rule, though in the context of how it inhibits beginner bands from getting bookings, which is a separate and, to me much less important, aspect of it than the interference with the right of people, to make music for pleasure.


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Subject: RE: Day of action for live music 19th July
From: The Shambles
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 03:41 PM

I tend to agree. But the problem is the people we need to inform do not really know that such things as sessions and sing-arounds happen, let alone that they are under threat or their great value.

That is why Morris being considered as public entertainment, although unfortunate has at least helped bring the issue forward. for even journalists know about those bearded blokes with bells......

I think we should concentrate first as a tactic, on the traditional events, put on by enthusiasts and unpaid. Try and win that freedom of expression battle first, as I think we can, before we move on to more conventional performers and their equally important rights.

For I think this will then automatically follow?


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Subject: RE: Day of action for live music 19th July
From: The Shambles
Date: 04 Aug 01 - 11:27 AM

London article on the subject


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Mudcat time: 7 August 10:04 AM EDT

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