BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims

Subject: RE: BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Sep 05 - 02:40 AM

The Mayors of both cities are only responsible for the people within the political jurisdiction of their respective cities, pdq. The Mayor of Houston said he couldn't evacuate everyone from his city. Not from the urban sprawl around his city, for which he is not responsible.

Subject: RE: BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Sep 05 - 07:34 PM

As if Houston's bigger sq mileage is harder to evacuate than NYC's 10 million.

That list was not intuitive to my notion of sprawl and was very interesting, but like apples and oranges comparisons are not the point.

Subject: RE: BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims
From: pdq
Date: 24 Sep 05 - 07:07 PM

CarolC,

This is why it is more difficult to evacuate Houston than it is to evacuate New Orleans. In the size of "urban sprawl" index, New Orleans does not make the Top 100 list. Here's the facts, m'am:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Urbanized Area - Square Miles of Sprawl

(ranked by amount of sprawl)
 
1. Atlanta, GA              701.7
2. Houston, TX        638.7
3. New York City-N.E. New Jersey        541.3
4. Washington, DC-MD-VA            450.1
5. Philadelphia, PA              412.4
6. Los Angeles, CA        393.8
7. Dallas-Fort Worth, TX        372.4
8. Tampa-St.Petersburg-Clearwater, FL         358.7
9. Phoenix, AZ        353.6
10. Minneapolis-Saint Paul, MN        341.6

Subject: RE: BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Sep 05 - 06:32 PM

I'm no expert but I'm pretty sure Marshall Law, Martial Law, Military Justice, Rules of Engagement, Bush's rules for torture, and the Geneva Convention are all different things.

The US torture chambers and Saddam torture chambers are however strikingly similar. The only difference is that death as a result of USA torture is always an accident and Saddam's torture victims we're deliberately killed.



Everyone has their own truisms such as "its always a bad idea to fight a land war in Asia".

Mine is " its always a bad idea to elect an entire family to the Presidency of the United States when the father was an industrialist for Hitler, The son was director of the most murderous regieme of the CIA and the grandson is an idiot stand in for his dad's friends."

Subject: RE: BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Sep 05 - 06:05 PM

...wait a minute, Donuel ........hey!!! (light bulb goes off in head: "prisoners of war and suspected terrorists and anybody who has the misfortune of pissing Bush off have all that WITHOUT military law, hmmmm...")

Subject: RE: BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Sep 05 - 05:07 PM

"We now have Bush saying that the laws of 'posse comitatus' are in need of change so we can deputize the military to preserve the public order. This is so reminiscent of his post 911 behaviour that I'm thinkin' this guy turns all his problems into nails so he can put the hammer down. Governmental bodies fail to do what they are supposed to do, therefore the solution is "More Governmental Power."


Jeez, you say "military law" as if its a bad thing.

Without it we couldn't have torture or denial to a lawyer, or being held forever without charges.

Subject: RE: BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims
From: Raedwulf
Date: 24 Sep 05 - 02:03 PM

I sometimes agree with robo, sometimes I call him appropriate names (he doesn't think the same , of course, but if he agreed, I wouldn't be calling him names, now would I...). Generally, I (a Yook) regard him as being somewhat right of centre. Nevertheless, his summation of the current situation seems to me to be just about smack on!

Subject: RE: BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Sep 05 - 01:10 PM

No, GUEST, 24 Sep 05 - 07:12 AM, in my last post, I was just commenting on Roadeagle posting that same little propagandistic sound byte on all of the threads that are about Katrina (and even the one about Rita).

And you're a day late and a dollar short on the subject of evacuation. Nagin said before Katrina that it was not possible to evacuate everyone from New Orleans. And as we have seen, the Mayor of Houston has not been able to evacuate everyone from that city either. People who wanted to evacuate have been forced to return home, where they were told they would be on their own until after the hurricane passed. They are saying that what we have learned from Rita is that it's not possible to evacuate an entire major city in such a short period of time in the event of a disaster.

Subject: RE: BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims
From: robomatic
Date: 24 Sep 05 - 11:49 AM

I think there is plenty of blame to go around (for all the good it does).

From what I've seen of Mayor Nagin, he is not totally incompetent, and he can talk a good stream, but he is not totally competent either, as those dozens of flooded schoolbuses attest. He told people to use their own common sense and get out, but he didn't avail himself of municipal buses nor Amtrak. More recently his much publicized invitation to many New Orleanians to return to the city (before Rita moved in and made this a non-event) seems to be absolutely nuts.

The provisions made for local folk to occup the Dome, and the non-provisions made at the convention center display non-preparedness on the local level.

Is it possible to blame the locals? Sure. There are folks who balance the cost of leaving versus the probability of getting flooded while staying and they say to themselves "never been flooded before, that's good odds". There was an interview on NPR with a local named Randy Adams who read the weather reports and recognized very bad offings. He and his family relocated before the weekend with their connections out of state, and brought all their paperwork with them. They're making new lives and his window of departure is that it'll be up to 36 months before his home is habitable. He was ahead of the local and state authorities on all counts.

As the Austin Lounge Lizareds say: "Life is hard. It's even harder when you're dumb."

As for our glorious national 'lead' ers, I pronounce lead as in the heavy poisonous metal the Romans used for their plumbing. They were demonstrably 48 hours late getting up to speed after warnings from specialists on the payroll. I think the failure goes to Chertoff for not taking the lead, being due to the HSA reorganization a notch above the head of FEMA. The failure goes to Brown, who should have gotten off his backside and told Chertoff to get moving and issue the necessary orders, and the failure goes to 'W' and the wise leaders who decided that nothing was so needful as a response to terrorism as ANOTHER layer of bureaucracy. Bureaucrats have their place, but too many of them see their charge so as to prevent things from happening.

There are a lot of stories whose validity remains to be worked out, the story about FEMA preventing Walmart delivering water, FEMA cutting communication lines. We're hearing a lot of weird stuff which may or may not be true. Last night I saw a snatch of Mayor Nagin being interviewed, and being informed that one of the existing levees was leaking. His response was an annoyed snap that he wasn't 'aware' of it. This was a revealing glimpse into a mind that is not into problem solving.

I think we can agree that we have no heroes at the higher levels of government.
I've listened to Rush Limbaugh a little bit this week. He has been spinning his political defense of the Republican powers that be by emphasizing the obvious weaknesses on the local scene, and characterizing the mindset of the population to suit his preconceived notions. He has accurately called out the Democrats on the weakness of their political stances, since they are in attack mode, there is no one taking a statemanlike position in this thing. It preserves nothing but a bickerfest and shows no leadership in the opposition to contrast the lack of leadership in the government.

We now have Bush saying that the laws of 'posse comitatus' are in need of change so we can deputize the military to preserve the public order. This is so reminiscent of his post 911 behaviour that I'm thinkin' this guy turns all his problems into nails so he can put the hammer down. Governmental bodies fail to do what they are supposed to do, therefore the solution is "More Governmental Power." The Democrats have no sensible statesmen or women to hold the stage against them.


So I am left with Shakespeare: "A plague on both your houses!"

Subject: RE: BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims
From: Ron Davies
Date: 24 Sep 05 - 11:07 AM

Roadeagle--



From what I read, including the Wall St. Journal (that WKLR--well known leftist rag), it appears:

1) There is no consensus as to whether global warming is causing more hurricanes. It is likely that there are cycles of frequency, and we are now in an upswing.

2) However, there appears to be a consensus that due to warming of the ocean's surface, the hurricanes, when they happen, are likely to be more severe.

So we are now in a period of increasing frequency of hurricanes, which, thanks to global warming, are likely to be more severe.


Do you dispute this, and if so, which part?.

Subject: RE: BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Sep 05 - 10:26 AM

OK lets consider all the revisionist twistings of FOX, Rush and other edited replays of the Katrina response as another self sacrificing and heroic deed by our decisive and head strong President.

Lets go so far as to accept that only elected Democratic party officials are the only authorities to blame for inaction, corrupt cronyism and criminal diversion of infrastructure and emergency funds.

Lets even take the implied FOX comments as to the poor victims of the Katrina storm are victims primarily because they are stupid and perhaps geneticly inferior which in turn is the reason for their poverty.

Let the Texas response to the Rita storm stand as a shining example of how intelligent white Republicans take care of a disaster.


With all this now taken for granted as the truth of the situation...

Now are you right wingers REALLY proud?

Subject: RE: BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Sep 05 - 07:12 AM

Can't drop it, eh Carol. Go to the sources where you will find that evacuation is the resposibility of the Local and State.
As I said several weeks ago, wait and let stuff sort out. While you will probably not believe it, the "facts" will be there those capable of discerning.

Subject: RE: BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Sep 05 - 04:45 AM

Is that you Karl, posting as Roadeagle? Spoon feeding us our pre-digested thought for the day? So glad we have you around to do our thinking for us.

Subject: RE: BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims
From: GUEST,Roadeagle
Date: 24 Sep 05 - 03:24 AM

La. is number one state regarding Army Corp of Engineers federal funding-if you are unaware we are a republic based on preservation of state rights; big daddy federal gov can only do so much and should not mandate how monies are spent in localities. La. and N'orleans has a tradition of corrupt politics(more than the norm)and it's faulty levee system, poverty, and crime rate is directly related to decades of liberal rule. Bush certainly, like all presidents, has had an imperfect presidency, but the blame Bush for everything crowd gets tiresome and is rooted in hysterics and ideological hatred. Many on the left blame global warming created by evil capitalist man and of course W-May I present the fact the polar ice caps on Mars are receding at a rate of ten feet per year. The last time i checked Mars was void of industry-Perhaps, just maybe, warming and cooling trends are cyclically influenced by things like the sun, volcanic activity, ect.. What a concept.
Also, in the last hundred years the peak decades for hurricanes were the 30's, 40's and 50's-why the drop-off in the 60's through the 90's? I could go on and on, but your sure to maintain simplistically non-analytical thought anyway

Subject: RE: BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims
From: Tam the man
Date: 10 Sep 05 - 09:58 AM

It sounds like this 'human' is a dickhead and he is

Subject: RE: BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Sep 05 - 02:37 AM

On the one about Nagin turning his nose up at school busses... that one's a lie. They're trying to make it look like Nagin turned down the use of school busses for the purpose of evacuation prior to the hurricane. The fact is that that quote was made after the hurricane had already passed. And he wasn't turning down school busses. He was saying people shouldn't just send school busses... they should send every kind of bus they could get their hands on. He was saying that the paltry few school busses that were being sent weren't anywhere near enough.

Here's what I have to say on the subject of the evacuation plan, of which I have read the relevant parts...

People are using the bus issue as a way to try to shift responsibility away from FEMA and Bush, where it rightly belongs, to the people who were doing the best they could with the resources they had at their disposal.

The evacuation plan gives the local governments the authority to use those busses. But it does not give them the resources to put the busses to use. It doesn't give them drivers for the busses. It doesn't give them enough fuel to get to wherever they need to go. It doesn't give the busses a destiniation. If one of those busses ran out of fuel in a place that was vulnerable in the hurricane, and there wasn't any available fuel, and there were no shelters anywhere near, the people in that bus would be completely exposed to the worst the hurricane could throw at them. And they might die out in the open. 1600 busses would be needed to get all of the people out. That's with 80 people in a bus. That's 1600 bus drivers that would have to be found. Goodness knows how much fuel would be needed to get the people out of harm's way. Accomodations would have to be paid for. That would cost at least $4000 per day per bus, just for hotels and motels.

Mayor Nagin said way back in July that the local government did not have the resources to get people out who didn't have their own transportation in the event of a catastrophic hurricane. Nagin used the city's public tranportation to get people to the designated shelters so that they would at least be in stuctures that would be able to withstand the high winds of Katrina. People were much safer in those shelters than they would have been sitting in a bus by the side of the road. Had Nagin been able to get enough drivers, and if he could have been assured that the busses would have enough fuel to get everyone to safety, I have no doubt that he would have chosen that option rather than sending them to shelters in New Orleans. But that was the best he could do.

Governor Blanco was not just dealing with the logistics for evacuating New Orleans. She also had to worry about all of the other parts of Louisiana that were vulnerable in this storm. The state of Lousiana didn't have the resources to do everything that needed to be done. That's why she requested the assistance of the federal government.

It was the federal government that was in a position to do what was needed. It was responsible for making sure all of the different first responders were able to communicate with each other. It didn't do that. It could have pulled emergency resources in from other states, as well as support, equipment, and fuel from other areas to either get everyone evacuated, or at the very least to make sure all agencies and personnel were in communication and had what they needed in order to do what was needed for the people remaining in New Orleans as well as other parts of Louisiana and Mississippi. That was it's responsibility under the law and FEMA regulations. It did not do that.

Subject: RE: BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims
From: An Englishman Abroad
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 11:38 PM

Carol C

Yes they were sent by a Republican friend of mine to try and disprove some of the stuff I sent to him. mine had links.

all the best John

Subject: RE: BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims
From: TIA
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 05:50 PM

Here's proof of an open mind: "[CarolC] will always be wrong..."

Now all CarolC has to do is say "I am always wrong - I never say anything correct".

Take a minute and ponder that out.

Actually I stole it from the Greeks.




Alternatively, CarolC could say "LarryK is smart".

Subject: RE: BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 04:00 PM

That's the problem with these BuShite Republicans- they just Hate Truth.

Subject: RE: BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 02:11 PM

Those were sent to you in a bulk e-mail Mr. Abroad? No links to actual quotes from real sources?

I'll see what I can find on those.

Subject: RE: BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 08:07 AM

Well, the first of these 'quotes' highlights the problem of who to blame quite well. It says "Louisiana Department of Homeland Security said you can't go". At issue is whether these can or cannot fairly be identified as "bureaucrats who worked for Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco" at the time of the incident, or whether FEMA was responsible. [The reports I heard from the BBC at the time claimed it was FEMA.]

Subject: RE: BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims
From: An Englishman Abroad
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 07:45 AM

Got to admit links to a statment in here carry more weight. I had the below sent to me by a republican friend, it is a good example of how it is easy to just write anything you like.

It may be true it may not. Who knows. The truth may well be somewhere in the middle. If there were links it would stand up better.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Gov. Kathleen Blanco's Bureaucrats Blocked Food and Water

The Red Cross was reportedly ready to deliver food, water and other supplies to flood-ravaged refugees who were sweltering inside New Orleans' Superdome last week - but the relief was blocked by bureaucrats who worked for Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco.



Fox News Channel's Major Garrett reported Wednesday that the Red Cross had "trucks with water, food, hygiene equipment, all sorts of things ready to go ... to the Superdome and Convention Center."

But the Louisiana Department of Homeland Security, Garrett said, "told them they could not go."
"The Red Cross tells me that Louisiana's Department of Homeland Security said, 'Look, we do not want to create a magnet for more people to come to the Superdome or Convention Center, we want to get them out,'" he explained.

"So at the same time local officials were screaming where is the food, where is the water, the Red Cross was standing by ready [and] the Louisiana Department of Homeland Security said you can't go."





Wednesday, Sept. 7, 2005 10:59 p.m. EDT

Gov. Blanco, Mayor Nagin at Each Others Throats

Open warfare appears to have broken out between Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco and New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin, with Blanco challenging on Wednesday Nagin's authority to order a mandatory citywide evacuation.



"The mayor certainly has ordered that, but the governor, and that would be me, will have to enforce it or implement it," Gov. Blanco told the Fox News Channel.

The Louisiana Democrat said she wanted more time to determine "whether or not there's an absolute justification for that," saying she feared any forced evacuation could put people at risk for disease.

"We wouldn't want the next wave of people getting ill and perhaps dying from terrible diseases, and that is a big concern," Blanco told Fox, adding, "We want definite information. We don't need to put more grief on people."

Gov. Blanco's decision to pull the rug out from under Mayor Nagin follows by two days Nagin's account to CNN, where he blamed the governor for delaying federal rescue efforts last Friday.

"I was ready to move today. The governor said she needed 24 hours to make a decision," he complained.

Reacting to the governor's footdragging, Nagin lamented: "It would have been great if we could have ... told the world that we had this all worked out."

"It didn't happen, and more people died," he added.




Thursday, Sept. 8, 2005 11:38 a.m. EDT


Ray Nagin: School Buses Not Good Enough

New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin garnered a ton of publicity with a profanity-laced interview he gave to WWL radio last Thursday, where he blasted President Bush and Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco for not coming to rescue his city in time.



However, Nagin's most newsworthy comments - where he explained why he didn't use hundreds of city school buses to evacuate his city's flood victims - went almost unnoticed.

Turns out, Nagin turned his nose up at the yellow buses, demanding more comfortable Greyhound coaches instead.
"I need 500 buses, man," he told WWL. "One of the briefings we had they were talking about getting, you know, public school bus drivers to come down here and bus people out of here."

Nagin described his response:

"I'm like - you've got to be kidding me. This is a natural disaster. Get every doggone Greyhound bus line in the country and get their asses moving to New Orleans."

While Nagin was waiting for his Greyhound fleet, Katrina's floodwaters swamped his school buses, rendering them unusable.

Subject: RE: BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 03:11 AM

LOL!

In the absence of any facts of your own, you just make insults. That's all we really need to know about you, pdq. Same goes for Larry K.

No, I think I'll stick around and continue to provide FACTS while the two of you waste your time trying (unsuccessfully) to blow smoke up our asses.

Subject: RE: BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 02:36 AM

Hey - no insulting accordions please!

Subject: RE: BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims
From: pdq
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 12:18 AM

Sorry to tell you this, CarolC, but what you have is blind rage. Seldom do you let the facts get in the way of a good character assassination.

Larry K is brilliant man and an important player in alternative energy systems. He helps make the country better, you criticize.

Please go play an accordion or something and let your intellectual superiors do what they have to do in peace and quiet.

Subject: RE: BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 12:02 AM

Look at the good side, Larry K. They don't have real bullets like the New Orleans street gangs do.

Nope. We don't have bullets. We just have FACTS.

Subject: RE: BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims
From: GUEST,Ron Davies
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 11:46 PM

As a registered Republican, I thought I'd register my thoughts on Bush's recent actions (or lack of same).

Subject: RE: BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims
From: pdq
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 11:00 PM

Look at the good side, Larry K. They don't have real bullets like the New Orleans street gangs do.

Subject: RE: BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims
From: GUEST,Ron Davies
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 10:53 PM

One more thing: sure is baffling--Larry, why did you lie about the Journal editorial lambasting Nagin and Blanco? There is no such editorial today--and you must have known I actually do read the paper. Have you completely lost it?

Subject: RE: BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims
From: GUEST,Ron Davies
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 10:33 PM

Larry--

Re: Osama: No, actually I didn't vote for Osama. I'm surprised to hear that he was on your ballot. Did you vote for him?--figured you might have, since the stronger he's perceived as being, the more successful your boy's campaign of hate and fear would be--and that's Bush's one and only strong suit.   As Carol has pointed out, Osama and Bush are flip sides of the same coin--both grotesquely distorting religion and playing on hate and fear to rouse the faithful. If aggression can't solve a problem, Bush is totally lost--as we're seeing, in spades, right now.

Yes, Larry, I always read the Wall St Journal editorials. But you might possibly want to note that there is more to the Journal than those 2 pages. There are actual articles. It's called reporting--and they often contradict the editorials. Imagine that--- independent reporting. In fact, the articles often give many sides to an issue.

Now I wonder which would be a better source for information--articles or editorials. Wow, that's a tough one. Perhaps too tough for you. On second thought, go back to your "Rush-isms"--you'll be far more comfortable. After all, your mighty leader has a classic Manichean (look it up) view of the world. Why should you be required to actually grapple with shades of gray? It might require thinking. We don't want you to strain yourself.

But at least we know now why the US is so strongly unified and beloved throughout the world--Mr. Bush and his stalwart supporters (including your good self?) have seen to that.

Source, please, on your Sierra Club vs levees story---with direct quotes, of course. (Hint: Rush will not cut it). It may of course be true, but just to keep this discussion honest, as I'm sure you'd want. What exactly was the decision? "Delay any improvements" doesn't sound like a quote from the decision.

Then we can go into your other brilliant observations.

Also, have environmentalists been pushing for wetlands or have they not? Yes or no will suffice.

Interesting column in the Washington Post today (8 Sept 2005). I wouldn't ordinarily cite the Post, lest you object to "leftist" sources--but this is by a certified conservative, Robert Novak, who I believe outed the female CIA agent recently (with Mr. Rove's help). At any rate, the column is titled "After Katrina, Anger Within the GOP" --"Slow Response and A Politically Tone-Deaf Administration Worry Lawmakers".

You might want to read this column--then come back and tell us how much Republicans love Bush---let alone what Democrats think.

Subject: RE: BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims
From: curmudgeon
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 08:40 PM

Read this one, Larry!

Subject: RE: BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 07:20 PM

All of the above?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 06:47 PM

"you have always been wrong in the past, you are wrong in the present, you will always be wrong in the future.   I count on that"


Was this written by:

A. A radical fundamentalist.
B. A Bush hater.
C. A mudcathater.
D. An idiot full of sound and fury.

Subject: RE: BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 06:24 PM

Here's the request for federal assistance Governor Blanco sent to President Bush on August 27, which includes a request from the federal government for "emergency protective measures"...

"In response to the situation I have taken appropriate action under State law and directed the execution of the State Emergency Plan on August 26, 2005 in accordance with Section 501 (a) of the Stafford Act. A State of Emergency has been issued for the State in order to support the evacuations of the coastal areas in accordance with our State Evacuation Plan and the remainder of the state to support the State Special Needs and Sheltering Plan.

Pursuant to 44 CFR � 206.35, I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster. I am specifically requesting emergency protective measures, direct Federal Assistance, Individual and Household Program (IHP) assistance, Special Needs Program assistance, and debris removal."

http://www.gov.state.la.us/Press_Release_detail.asp?id=976

Subject: RE: BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 06:18 PM

Rush Limbaugh's program should come with a health warning—especially mental health.

I had a relative who used to listen to Rush Limbaugh. Over a short period of time his behavior became noticeably irrational, he tended to shout insults a lot and rudely interrupt people he was talking at (not with, at). His mental processes were obviously disconnected from even the most basic and obvious facts of reality. Soon he began frothing at the mouth, and medical help was called in. A CAT scan revealed that his brain was gradually turning to something that looked like lime Jell-O studded with shredded carrots and those little bitty marshmallows. When the cause of this transformation (listening to Rush Limbaugh) was made known, he was immediately strapped to the gurney, given a rabies shot, and put on a strict diet of NPR. He's gradually recovering, but he still tends to look wildly around from time to time, call people offensive names, and have lecherous thoughts about Ann Coulter.

Recently, he's decided that Bush and the Federal government may not have handled the New Orleans situation very well. This is a major breakthrough. We're hoping for a full recovery and his eventual return to behaving normally among civilized people.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims
From: jaze
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 06:17 PM

Crazy fucking fool is nothing but a rich junkie!

Subject: RE: BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims
From: Cluin
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 06:02 PM

(insert the word "mean" after "You")

Subject: RE: BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims
From: Cluin
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 06:01 PM

You that pill-popping, blithering, loudmouth pussgut Limbaugh still has a voice?

Subject: RE: BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims
From: M.Ted
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 05:14 PM

Larry--people are dying, and all you can think of is to continue the Limbaugh puke spewing that is your specialty--there is a special place in Hell for people like you, right next to the ones who fire weapons at rescue workers--

Subject: RE: BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims
From: curmudgeon
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 03:58 PM

Larry says that most Americans support Bush on this. Look at this, Larry.

Subject: RE: BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 03:50 PM

LOL. Even FOX News reported Blanco's evacuation order...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,167781,00.html

Wednesday, August 31, 2005:

"Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco has ordered everyone in New Orleans - many of whom have been huddled in the Superdome and other rescue centers - to leave. As many as 25,000 people were going to be bused from the Superdome to the Houston Astrodome in Texas."

The GUEST who is just passing through is right. You would know a "fact" if it kicked you in the nutz, Larry K.

Subject: RE: BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims
From: GUEST,Just Passing Through
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 03:41 PM

I rest my case.

Subject: RE: BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 03:39 PM

Show us the evacuation plan, Larry K.

Nevertheless (and in response to your latest lies), I have produced statements (posted to to another thread) from Nagin made in JULY, long before anyone ever heard of Katrina, stating that he did not have the resources to evacuate the one to two hundred thousand people who would not have transportation of their own in the event of a catastrophe.

And the FACT is that the National Guard was already on the ground (having been ordered there by Blanco) before the hurricane. Even the National Guard says so.

And your lie about Blanco refusing to order an evacuation even now, that is about as laughable as it is possible to get. I can produce hundreds of references to Blanco's total evacuation orders, which she issued several days ago.

These are the FACTS.

You, on the other hand, are just making shit up off the top of your head.

Subject: RE: BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims
From: GUEST,Larry K
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 03:33 PM

A few more facts.   Limbaugh blamed environmentalists and mudcatters went wild.   AS Werner Wolf would say "lets go to the videotape"

In 1996 the Sierra club sued the US army of engineers who wanted to improve the levees.   In court testimony the core said "a failure could wreak catastrophic damage in Louisiana..."

The sierra club response from court testimony "bottomwood hardwood must be protected and restored if the Lousiana black bear is to survive"

The case was settled in 1997 to delay any improvements in the levee.

Sidebar (history quiz- who was president in 1997 when this decision was made?   Hint- he was impeached and disbarred)

Now - do you still disagree with Rush when he said that environmentalists were partly to blame for the levees breaking?   On the bright side, I guess we still have black bears in Lousiana.

Clearly I am a puppet of the Lousiana black bear lobby.

Subject: RE: BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims
From: GUEST,Just Passing Through
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 03:30 PM

And there are Republicans (especially those who listen to Rush Limbaugh) who wouldn't know a fact if it bit them on the ass!

Subject: RE: BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims
From: GUEST,Larry K
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 03:25 PM

A good democrat never lets the facts get in the way of a good story.
I heard an interview with Nagin who stated that it was Blanco who couldn't make up her mind.   Not bush.   Nagin stated that Bush gave Blanco two alternatives and her response was she needed 24 hours to evaluate.   That is not from a right wing source.   That was from a live interview I heard myself from Nagin.

Carol C- you have always been wrong in the past, you are wrong in the present, you will always be wrong in the future.   I count on that.   Should I ever agree with you, I would seriously have to reconsider my position.

but lets get back to the facts.   The evacuation plan called for Nagin to use public transportation. He never ordered it.   Repeat- he never ordered it or the drivers.   The buses sat in low lying areas where they were submerged under water.   Great pictures of them on the news.   Again, I heard the live interview with Nagin on the Sunday before the storm saying the evacuation was going great and he did not need to open the convention center or airport.   he also said that the levee would break if hit by a category 5 but it would be no problem and they could clean it up in a weak.

Blanco refused to send the national guard in before the storm or to give authority to the feds. SORRY_ THOSE ARE THE FACTS.   To this day Blanco refuses to order people to evacuate.   THEY STILL DON"T HAVE THEIR ACT TOGETHER!   Blanco blames Nagin. Nagin blames Blanco. Mudcatters blame Bush. How Predictable.   Lates poll indicates that only 13% of Americans hold Bush responsible for what happed.   As usual Mudcat is out of step with the country.

Perhaps you may want to get your facts correct before calling me a liar.   I heard the Nagen interview the Sunday before the storm. Did you?

Subject: RE: BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims
From: TIA
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 02:57 PM

I would be stunned, stunned, stunned to learn that Ron had voted for Osama.

Analogy deceased.

Subject: RE: BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 02:57 PM

And this straw man from Larry K...

Blanco refused to turn over the national guard to the feds

It wasn't necessary for Blanco to turn over the Louisiana National Guard to the feds in order for the troops from other states that she requested to come in and help out. The Pentagon did eventually send in troops from other states. Blanco requested them prior to the storm. It is the fault of the federal government that the troops she requested were not sent.


And this quite spectacular lie...

Blanco refused to...bring in the national guard before the huricane

From the National Guard's own website...

"More than 6,200 Army and Air National Guard troops were on duty in Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama and Florida the Monday that Katrina struck with 145-mph winds and blinding rain that, the Associated Press reported, submerged entire New Orleans neighborhoods up to the rooflines and peeled away part of the Superdome.

Two hundred Louisiana troops assisted civilian authorities by conducting security and screening missions at the Superdome where a Guard spokesman reported that more than 10,000 people sought shelter the Sunday night before the storm struck early Monday morning."

http://www.ngb.army.mil/news/story.asp?id=1738

Subject: RE: BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 12:55 PM

I should rephrase this...

Nagin and Blanco evacuated a much larger percentage of their populations in the affected areas

Subject: RE: BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 12:50 PM

You are telling outright lies, Larry K. I suspect they were fed to you by others, and maybe you don't even know they are lies, but lies they are.

1.) Busses - Nagin didn't refuse to use busses. He wanted to use busses, but he couldn't find any people to drive them.

2.) Evacuation - Republican vs Democrat... Nagin and Blanco evacuated a much larger percentage of their populations than the Republican governor of Mississippi evacuated of his. Many people in Mississippi died who wouldn't have died had they been evacuated.

3.) Ordering National Guard troops - Republican vs. Democrat... Blanco had a few thousand National Guard troops on the ground. The Republican governor of Mississippi had a few hundred National Guard troops on the ground.

I'm not blaming the Governor of Mississippi for what happened. He, like his counterpart in Louisiana, knew, quite rightly, that it was the responsibility of the federal government to give assistance where the resources at the state and municipal levels were not adequate to address the magnitude of the disaster. The federal government failed both the Republican governor of Mississippi as well as the Democrat governor and mayor in Louisiana and New Orleans. The Bush administration failed the American people.