A little more news on Licensing

Subject: RE: A little more news on Licensing
From: IanC
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 09:41 AM

DMcG. You're exempt.

Subject: RE: A little more news on Licensing
From: DMcG
Date: 19 Mar 05 - 02:45 AM

I wrote to my MP back on the 21st January ask what the position was at the same time as I made my posting above. On 31st January I got a letter from DCMS saying I would get a reply with 18 days and it finally arrived this morning. Signed by Richard Caborn, the Minister concerned, it confirms that we will need a licence but are exempt from fees. As has been discussed many times before, this means that the hall owner may still have costs associated with obtaining the licence in the first place, such as inspection charges, alterations, etc, and they may decide they don't want the hassle.

Subject: RE: A little more news on Licensing
From: Bonecruncher
Date: 19 Mar 05 - 08:24 PM

This week on HTV 6 o'clock news there was a bit about the local carnivals in the South-West possibly being in jeapardy due to the requirement for a PEL for each carnival.
As these and any other local carnival are primarily charity fund-raising events it looks as though charities may also suffer due to thoughtless politicians!
Colyn.

Subject: RE: A little more news on Licensing
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 07:11 AM

I do want to live in this country ..I do..I do ...I do ...I do ...I do. Can someone remind me why, when we have such daft infringements on our right to enjoy ourselkves in our so called free country? OOh I feel better now.

Subject: RE: A little more news on Licensing
From: The Shambles
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 07:28 AM

Not sure if the above link to the Press Release works but this (shortened) one should.

http://tinyurl.com/42otx

040/05
10 March 2005
Music To Your Ears The Industry Gets A Say
The British music industry is being invited to say what it thinks the Government should be doing to nurture and promote live music, Arts Minister Estelle Morris announced today.

It is the first time the industry has been asked directly to give its opinion on what can be done to strengthen live music in the UK. The consultation is being led by the Live Music Forum a group, chaired by Feargal Sharkey, which was set up at the beginning of 2004 to ensure live music thrives.

Over the next few months the Forum will be seeking the views of everyone from major record companies to jobbing musicians.

The resulting discussions and ideas will help shape a detailed report which will be submitted to the Government at the end of the Live Music Forum's lifespan in 2006. The report will feature a series of recommendations to the Government designed to maintain the UK's live music scene as one of the most diverse and vibrant in the world.

Estelle Morris said:
"From the Beatles at the Caven Club, to George Melly at Ronnie Scott's, to Norma Waterson at the Cambridge Folk Festival we have a live music reputation to be proud of.
"But it's a tradition to live up to and build on. That's why we're calling on the music industry help us to help you.

"Tell us what we can do to get more gigs and concerts put on throughout the UK in every genre of music."
Feargal Sharkey, Chairman of the Live Music Forum, said:
"It's no accident that this year's Brit Awards were dominated by acts who all cut their teeth on the live circuit. Franz Ferdinand, Joss Stone and Muse have proved what many of us in the music industry already knew that we have one of the most vibrant music scenes in the world and live music is at the heart of it.
"It's in the industry's interest to get involved with the work of the Forum and come and tell us what they think the Government should be doing to safeguard the future of the live music scene.
"There are no rules. No idea will be too sensational. For the first time the industry is getting the opportunity to influence Government policy and I whole heartedly recommend they use it."

Notes to Editors
1. The consultation will last for twelve weeks until 10 June 2005. The Live Music Forum will invite people from all areas of the music industry in the give their views. To get in touch with the Forum to request a meeting or to send in your views, email [e-mail]


The Live Music Forum was set up in January 2004. As well as working with partners across the live music world to ensure they make the most of the opportunities offered by the Licensing Act the Forum also looks at a range of ways to promote live music and foster grass roots talent.
Press Enquiries: 0207 211 6271
Out of hours telephone pager no: 07699 751153
Public Enquiries: 0207 211 6200
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Subject: RE: A little more news on Licensing
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 01:11 PM

If, by the term "music industry", we mean the pop music recording companies, they would like nothing better than to kill off all folk music. They are so determined to control all aspects of music, that they will not countenance the concept of songwriters whose material will remain (under the intellectual property legislation) in the ownership of the author. Why else would they give the likes of Gareth Gates, and Will Young, only covers to record. They have, per se, no interest in live music, as it makes no money for them. Even the Beatles (good as they were) could not have prospered under the current stranglehold they exert on the music business.

If they use their financial clout to scare the government into complying with their agenda, then, I'm afraid we can kiss original, live, innovative music goodbye, and say hello to a lifetime of soulless pap from manufactured bands with no sense of melody.

I feel like moving to Scotland, where folk musicians are considered a national asset, not a pernicious minority of seditious layabouts who are a danger to the general public, and an embarassment to a government who do not want us to be proud of our English traditions.

Don T.

Subject: RE: A little more news on Licensing
From: ET
Date: 21 Mar 05 - 02:37 AM

I have asked Michael Howard (and have spoken to David Davis my local MP) if the Conservatives would amend Schedule 1 of the Licensing Act 2003 if elected, at least to the extent of exempting acoustic music by adding the word "amplified" to "live music" as a scheduled piece of regulated entertainment.

I know this will not help electric pianos and some Jazz Bands but it would be a start. I will let mudcatters know.

I get the impression that the Ministry of Fun are trying to downplay the regulations because they have become aware that, what they have done is having a bad effect on live music. I wonder, election pending, if they remember the largest e-petition ever - 120,000 votes against this piece of penicious regulation.

Subject: RE: A little more news on Licensing
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Mar 05 - 12:16 PM

The following from Hamish Birchall

With a general election due in May, the government's licensing and live music spin machine is changing up a gear. Both the Musicians' Union (MU) and the Live Music Forum (LMF) seem happy to tag along. Recently both bodies have made dubious claims, no doubt unintentionally, in support of either the MORI live music survey, or the new licensing regime.

Taken at face value, musicians might conclude from these claims that gigs are thriving, and the new laws can only make things better. But as in other areas of government news control, necessary caveats have been omitted.

For example, Feargal Sharkey, chair of the LMF, writes in the current issue of 'M' (the MCPS-Performing Rights Society magazine):

'Whilst it's pleasing that 47% of the venues we surveyed put on some kind of live music, the flipside is that 53% don't. However after we told them that the new Licensing Act should make it easier and generally, cheaper to put on live music and then asked them if they would now change their minds - a third said they would.'

The survey found that the licensees who knew most about the new laws were most likely to say they would not consider having live music. 35% of MORI interviewees said they would be certain NOT to consider having live music after having the changes explained. An additional 30% were negative. In other words, more than two thirds were negative. (See MORI live music survey QN9 and p21).

John Smith, General Secretary of the MU, writing in the current issue of Musician (p23) says that the MORI survey showed '... approximately 1.7 million gigs were staged in the UK's 150,000 pubs, restaurants, clubs and student unions in 2003'. Smith, Sharkey and ministers have used this 1.7 million figure to suggest that live gigs are respectively: 'live and kicking', 'still the lifeblood of the music industry', and 'flourishing'.

In fact, the MORI data shows 850,000 was their best estimate for live gigs in pubs, restaurants and hotels for the 12 months leading up to the survey. The 1.7 million figure was an estimate for ALL venue categories, not a sub-section as implied above. There were seven venue categories, including members clubs and associations (i.e. political clubs), church and community halls and hotels. Many of the club and student union gigs will have been closed to the general public. Scotland was excluded from the survey. The Department for Culture, Media and Sport (DCMS) has also since conceded in correspondence that it could not rule out the possibility that venues whose main business was live music had been included. If this is the case, gig averages would have been distorted upwards. There is also a possibility that some karaoke and DJs were included as 'live music', particularly in pubs.

On the Licensing Act, Sharkey claims: 'Later this year the outdated "two in a bar rule" will be ushered off the stage and replaced by a simpler and fairer licensing system which combines alcohol and entertainment.' [Article cited above].

He adds: 'The new licensing laws won't require pubs, bars, hotels or restaurants to pay an additional fee when they apply to put on live music...'

These claims are misleading. For existing bars, pubs etc, the 'two for the price of one' offer (i.e. alcohol AND music for one fee) only runs till November this year. After then, if these venues have not obtained a live music authorisation - which will be required for many 'two in a bar' gigs' - they will have to pay an additional licence fee for it later, not to mention running the gauntlet of complex forms, possible public hearings and costly licence conditions. Only new venues will have the option to seek a dual permission for one licence fee when applying for their 'premises licence'.

Sharkey continues: '... the form they use to convert their existing alcohol licence provides a simple "tick box" system, making it easier for applicants to "opt in" for staging live music, however many performers are involved'.

Just because you start by ticking a box it doesn't follow that the new forms are simple. As licensees have discovered, the new application forms are much more complex in terms of the information required. Local authorities are looking much more closely at the type of music being proposed. Indeed, this complexity has already been cited as one cause of the delay in licence conversion applications:

'Local councils are increasingly worried that pubs and clubs will not have completed their new applications in time to comply with the act. Only a handful have completed the forms in a number of London boroughs, for example, and the Local Government Association is warning that some landlords could end up being prosecuted. All establishments must apply for their fresh licence by 6 August. Those who continue to trade without one will be breaking the law. Part of the problem is the complexity of the forms, but there is evidence of landlords waiting to see what their rivals are doing.' ['Police fear chaos over pub hours', Jamie Doward, social affairs editor, Observer ,p3, Sunday March 20, 2005]

As for Sharkey's claim that the new regime is 'fairer', this is manifestly false. Without any rational justification, the new regime ensnares many more live music events than before, including 'two in a bar' gigs, and private gigs raising money for charity. Licensees may now face criminal prosecution for hosting solo unamplified musicians unless licensed, while any amount of broadcast music or football delivered via big screens and powerful amplifiers is exempt.

Hamish Birchall