Official 'No tradition' 2 (PELs)

Subject: RE: OFFICIAL 'No tradition' 2 (PELs)
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 Jun 02 - 11:56 AM

I have not yet replied to Mr Bridgett's letter (above) but I have copied my reply to Mr Tiffney (and the LGA) below.

05/06/02
CC Brian Briscoe
Jim Knight MP
Louise Venn

Dear Mr Tiffney

Thank you for your letter 29 May 2002

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I have been providing advice on folk activities to Hamish Birchall for some time. In fact he quite naturally contacted me, as the observations at the meeting were contradictory to the advice I had been providing to him on this subject. You were not in fact directly quoted at all. My letter was an inquiry as to exactly what observations were made, because the issue is of paramount concern to the folk community. I also wanted to give you the opportunity for clarification.

Your quote from the Morning Advertiser makes reference to "we". Unfortunately many interested and knowledgeable people, who could advise the Government on the exact history and current position of folk music in England and Wales, and the threats presented to them, are not part of these discussions.

Many people like myself, who have first-hand experience of the "over-zealous enforcement" or of the extortionate fees", are also not part of these discussions. Perhaps you might consider directly involving some expert input on the question of traditional folk activities and the risk being presented to them before it is too late? I await your call.

If you would let me know where your home town, is I am sure that a few examples of a history of folk music in pubs can be provided for your area. The distribution of folk music in pubs may not be evenly spread but I am sure that information could be supplied that would lead you to re examine the impression you seem to have formed. I am sure the LGA would not want to be responsible for conveying an incorrect picture to the Government.

I am pleased to read of your visits and enjoyment of the culture of other lands but I am sure you can understand that this, only adds to the concerns of those involved in these activities near to home. In fact many people from these countries visit specifically to participate in traditional folk music in pubs. They are generally appalled to find the official attitude taken towards these events. That they are considered as licensable and as a result are being lost at an alarming rate.
A typical folk session is no greater risk to public safety than other activities for which the premises is already licensed. Indeed, it is likely to be far less crowded or noisy than during a live football match screened on satellite TV - this activity does not require a PEL now and, unless the Government does a u turn, it will not be licensed under the proposed new Alcohol and Entertainment Bill.

When we are talking in terms of a tradition, your reference to "antiquated laws" is interesting. Is 1964 and 1982 entertainment legislation considered then to be antiquated?

As an ex classmate of Martin Carthy, perhaps you could pass on to Government the concerns about the proposals expressed by his daughter? Eliza Carthy, who is carrying on her father's folk tradition (in pubs), has kindly given her full permission for this quote to be passed on.
24/05/02 They can't possibly believe that this new law is going to help anybody at all. How can a landlord who has never heard of folk music imagine as he opens his new pub that there might be a folk club there in the area in need of a venue?

Does the LGA consider that unpaid pub customers participating by singing or playing folk music are automatically presenting heath and safety concerns to the public more than any other activity?

I note that you have not commented on the second issue - whether or not the low take-up of PELs in England and Wales is simply a consequence of the low demand for live music. I would be grateful if you could establish what the official LGA view is on that question and on the question of the history of folk music making in pubs?

Subject: RE: OFFICIAL 'No tradition' 2 (PELs)
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 Jun 02 - 01:42 PM

This link to a BBC site has some interesting observations on the subject of folk music in pubs, and some 'interesting' singing........http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/discover/archive_features/142.shtml

Subject: RE: OFFICIAL 'No tradition' 2 (PELs)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Jun 02 - 03:38 PM

"It is currently the Government's intention to make all places of public religious worship exempt from the requirement for permission to stage a public entertainment in so far as it is possible"

Does anyone know if there is a legal defiition of "a place of public religious worship"?

Subject: RE: OFFICIAL 'No tradition' 2 (PELs)
From: The Shambles
Date: 26 Jun 02 - 12:36 PM

163 MP's names now!

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Is your MP's name there? ....Did you ask them to sign?

Subject: RE: OFFICIAL 'No tradition' 2 (PELs)
From: The Shambles
Date: 05 Jul 02 - 03:38 PM

175 MP's names now!