kim howells does it again (PEL)

Subject: RE: kim howells does it again
From: The Shambles
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 06:23 AM

Comment in today's Independent.

http://argument.independent.co.uk/commentators/story.jsp?story=366976

Subject: RE: kim howells does it again
From: daithi
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 07:04 AM

Quite so Gareth, if you'll pardon my twopennorth worth. Never forget - governments never respond to argument, only to pressure.

Subject: RE: kim howells does it again
From: fiddler
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 07:16 AM

Slightly off topic here!

A point which makes it not too relevent apart from Howells getting it wrong possibly! Surely not!

John Lenon (and the Beatles in his earlier existence)did not manage to create love and world peace!
Britney has not got all UK girls staying virgins till they are 21 (at least)!

How many of us turned in to gangsters after Al Capone flims!
Or bought buses to go on holiday after Summer Holiday!

So ....as we sing all sorts of songs about sex (ball of yarn etc.) Drugs (alchohol) and many other topics perhaps we should be seen as part of a subversive culture - or is that what KH actually thinks.

If you like art and freedom then you are against him! Hmmm....

Think back to Stalin perhaps the Labour party is not that new after all!

A

Sorry I feel frivolous today!;-) Fed up of banging head on brick walls!

Subject: RE: kim howells does it again
From: Mr Happy
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 07:54 AM

fiddler- don't bang your head- print out some petitions- it's a nice day- go out & get some more signatures **exclamation mark**

ps i'd do exclamation marks but that keys not wkng**exclamation mark**

Subject: RE: kim howells does it again
From: Gareth
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 12:51 PM

Richard - Only the "gaurdian" would be crass enough to publish such insulting tosh - tho I see from this mornings edition that they are back pedeling fast !!!!

Gareth

Subject: RE: kim howells does it again
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 03:49 PM

MrHappy: try holding down the 'alt' key and typing 033 !

Nigel

Subject: RE: kim howells does it again
From: The Shambles
Date: 08 Jan 03 - 03:46 PM

More informed Opinion in The Times.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,482-536071,00.html

Subject: RE: kim howells does it again
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Jan 03 - 08:38 PM

As attacks go, I'd have thought that piece from the Guardian wasn't particularly fierce. In fact I'd call it quite mild.

I have the profoundest contempt for people who carry guns, but I'd need to know a lot more than Kim Howells seems to know about any kind of music before I'd shoot my mouth off in that kind of way.

The man seems a bit of a rent-a-quote.

Subject: RE: kim howells does it again
From: The Shambles
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 06:43 PM

Letter from Dr Howells. Daily Telegraph 10 January 2003

Does Licensing Bill threaten freedom?

SIR- Your report (Jan 7) suggests that the future of the Three Choirs Festival will be jeopardised by changes to public entertainment licensing contained in the Government's Licensing Bill.

The last thing any of us would want is to threaten this country's great traditions of church music, which is epitomised by this rich and vibrant festival. Your readers can rest assured that, as minister with responsibility for licensing, I won't let this happen.

If an unintentional result of the Licensing Bill is that the future of church music is threatened, then we will amend it. As I told the House of Commons on December 16, we are reconsidering our position on this issue and we will announce our conclusions as soon as possible.

The report also stated that the Bill would mean that singing Happy Birthday in a restaurant would be illegal without a licence.

This is absolute nonsense. It is just one of a flurry of myths being put about by the Musicians' Union and others, who would be much better advised to work with the licensed trade to stimulate maximum take-up of the highly deregulatory reforms that the Licensing Bill offers.

Kim Howells
Minister for Licensing
Department for Culture, Media and Sport
London SW1

[e-mail]

Subject: RE: kim howells does it again
From: GUEST,Tom Jones
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 06:51 PM

No wonder this tosser doesn't like music, he was born in Wales!

Subject: RE: kim howells does it again
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 07:25 PM

It looks pretty clear they are going to back off from the church bashing side of it. And I suspect they'll likely do something similar to reducenthe adverse effect on school concerts and so forth. The bits we are more worried about are just as crazy, but we can't rely on having a bunch of bishops in the House of Lords ready to make trouble.

Still that letter sounds like the letter of a man who is feeling uder pressure. Notably that paragraph: "If an unintentional result of the Licensing Bill is that the future of church music is threatened, then we will amend it. As I told the House of Commons on December 16, we are reconsidering our position on this issue and we will announce our conclusions as soon as possible."

I hope someone will make sure that Kim Howells and the Daily Telergaph readers are remindeed that there has been at least one case, even under the present law, where people singing Happy Birthday did actually result in a prosecution. (I haven't got the details to hand or I'd do it myself.)

Here's a snippet from a BBC potted biography. The son of a Communist lorry driver, Howells was caught up in the revolutionary atmosphere of the late 1960s while a student at Hornsey College of Art. Like many of his contemporaries, he was involved in "sit-ins" and other demonstrations before becoming disillusioned with student politics.

It's bloody weird the way a man with Howells background and experience back in the 60s could get into this kind of nonsense. What happens to man that he ends up standing on his head and attacking the libertarian and comuniitarian principles he once probably sincerely held.

Hornsey wasn't "student politics" in the sense of the stuff that apparatchik creeps like Jack Straw (currently Foreign Secretary) was involved in. It was about the most wholesome episode of student activism of the period, genuinely directed towards matters of direct importance to the students. Including lots of live music and no bloody Public Entertainment Licences.

Subject: RE: kim howells does it again
From: GUEST,Tom Hamilton
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 10:40 PM

I still don't know how they are, as I'm on holiday in Australia, and here they don't really give us real news.
So all we get is local news and that's it.
Unless you tune into ABC or SBS or here in Perth a channel called Access 31, then you get real news.

I agree that the Turner prize is for Artists who are techanally Bullshit, and the 20 thounsand pounds should go to something better.
Someone who can actually do art.
So get rid of these so called artists who are crap and stop wasting money on them.

Subject: RE: kim howells does it again
From: DMcG
Date: 12 Jan 03 - 03:19 AM

I hope someone will make sure that Kim Howells and the Daily Telergaph readers are remindeed that there has been at least one case, even under the present law, where people singing Happy Birthday did actually result in a prosecution. (I haven't got the details to hand or I'd do it myself.)

I wrote about this on Friday. No doubt others did as well.

Subject: RE: kim howells does it again (PEL)
From: The Shambles
Date: 12 Jan 03 - 08:03 AM

We have the evidence and we must use it to show the media and our MPs that good intentions alone have not protected valuable activies from poorly worded legislation in the past and currently.

Despite being informed of this and ignoring it, for over two years, the fact that he now claims that the new badly worded legislation has 'unintentionally' threatened church concert traditions should make him re-examine the whole Bill.

We must take this period to make sure that if he does not do this, many more people than now, will be bringing the failings of the wording, to his attention.

I find myself agreeing with Dr Howells about singing Happy Birthday under the Bill. For I am sure he means that you drive a road vehicle into and around the restaurant, make sure it keeps moving and sing Happy Birthday from the back, you will not reqire a licence.

Of course the prosecution referred to was in a lowly pub, not the sort of restaurant that Dr Howells and Co now frequent. Different middle class rules seem to apply in restaurants and churches, than apply to pubs.

Subject: RE: kim howells does it again (PEL)
From: Willa
Date: 12 Jan 03 - 08:55 AM

What a pity that the 2nd sentence of Mr Howell's letter to The Telegraph didn't read:
'The last thing any of us would want is to threaten this country's great traditions of *live* music, which is epitomised by *the many* rich and vibrant *folk festivals*. Your readers can rest assured that, as minister with responsibility for licensing, I won't let this happen.

Subject: RE: kim howells does it again (PEL)
From: GUEST,Dave kenningham
Date: 12 Jan 03 - 11:31 AM

Up the workers!
(I just wanted this topic nearer the top of the forum!)

Subject: RE: kim howells does it again (PEL)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Jan 03 - 11:39 AM

It strikes me that Kim Howells is a classic case of

The working class can kiss my arse,
I've got a foreman's job at last.

To the tune of the Red Flag. (Does anyone know any other words to go with that couplet?)

Subject: RE: kim howells does it again (PEL)
From: Snuffy
Date: 12 Jan 03 - 11:58 AM

I'm out of work and on the Dole
So stuff yer Red Flag up yer 'ole

Subject: RE: kim howells does it again (PEL)
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 Jan 03 - 07:01 PM

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/story.jsp?story=367972

Dr Howells has a novel coming out and is interviewed (above)in the Independent and in his constant search for the popular vote, is now having a dig a video games.