Killed by the PEL system

Subject: RE: Killed by the PEL system
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 12 Aug 02 - 12:46 PM

Dear Mr Blues=Life clearly like Mr Banjoist you have never lived in the UK.

Often the Pub next door is exactly that! When they have a late night, Football, Christmas etc then as the neighbor you are a participant willing or no!

To be fair to the LAs in the UK rarely do they act except where there is complaint or serious fire/safety concern.

There may be cases where there is mixed reaction to inhouse giging, in fact in the USA one rarely - nearly never in my experience over 10 states - sees a spontaneous session like the UK. Indeed the opposite is the rule, the USA tends towards organised often badly attended jams where most of the audience are friends of the participants. In the UK one would not go to a Rugby house for a folk evening, nor to a Darts mecca for a Trad one.

The sessions I recall were hoots with crowds too big for the small bars where we would end up. They had the option to be fun, to be spontaneous, to play or do whatever one wanted to. Often I recall with great joy a friend who played a Tea Chest with Broom and String attached for a Bass! These were meetings of work weary people who simply needed to let off steam after a hard week. In the post war years skiffle and jazz were often played, indeed folk mostly took back seat to the louder stomping of other jams.

Subject: RE: Killed by the PEL system
From: The Shambles
Date: 12 Aug 02 - 05:11 PM

I suggest the discussion about the ins and outs is best done in another thread, such as UK catters be useful TODAY - that way this thread here serves as a handy collection of actual cases, which is what politicians and such always say they like to have when they are lobbied over an issue of principle.)

Subject: RE: Killed by the PEL system
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 Aug 02 - 01:19 AM

Links to PEL threads, all of them

Subject: RE: Killed by the PEL system
From: Blues=Life
Date: 14 Aug 02 - 04:17 PM

Um, Sorefingers, I was trying to be ironic. I was paraphrasing the troll who started a thread with the post listed below. I'm sorry, I should have known Irony was going to far. I guess I'll just have to be like Steve Martin in Roxanne. See farther below.

"Subject: I'm scared of Americans and Guns From: GUEST,lizzie Date: 19-Apr-00 - 06:25 PM

I'm new here, and I live in england.

Why do so many of you americans want to have guns? Nobody with any sense needs a gun. Humanity invented these things called 'words' a while back - used reasonably, they work quite well!

please stop wanting 'the right' to own guns, it makes me scared

Lizzie"

"Oh, ho, ho, irony! Oh, no, no, we don't get that here. See, uh, people ski topless here while smoking dope, so irony's not really a, a high priority. We haven't had any irony here since about, uh, '83, when I was the only practitioner of it. And I stopped because I was getting tired of being stared at." -C.D. Bailes (Steve Martin)

Peace to all, Blues

Subject: RE: Killed by the PEL system
From: The Shambles
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 02:43 PM

This from Hamish

A couple of weeks ago Barbara Golden of the Coventry Evening Telegraph ran a piece about local two-in-a-bar problems, tying it into the Musicians Union campaign, the level of MP support etc. She is interested in doing a follow-up article but would like another local 'peg'. If anyone in the area has experienced PEL difficulties her contact number is 024 76500 380.

Subject: RE: Killed by the PEL system
From: The Shambles
Date: 04 Sep 02 - 02:40 PM

The following invitation from Pete Gibson.

Some good news for a change. Greenwich Traditional Musicians Co-operative are pleased to invite you along to our grand re launch on Tuesday 1st October at the Cricketers 22, King William Walk, Greenwich London SE10.

We have been given the go ahead by the landlord because he has now virtually completed all the work needed to obtain the PEL and has been assured by the local authority that once he submits his electrical safety certificate he will be granted an immediate licence. The PEL is for two nights every week and costs around £300 per annum.

To reiterate - the local authority were not originally prepared to issue the landlord with a PEL without substantial modification to the premises. They seemed to change their mind after much pressure from ourselves and our supporters including pointing out to them the relevant DCMS circular concerning duplication of pre-existing public safety requirements for ordinary licensed premises.

So a partial victory for at least those of us in the borough who want to run events such as ours and have a sympathetic landlord who recognises the benefit to both his own customer base and the community as a whole.

Let's hope that the eventual good sense of our local authority extends to others.

Please feel free to publicise this event as widely as possible. We need as much support as we can get.

Thanks for all your help. We will continue to support the campaign and not forget what we have had to go through.

Pete Gibson

Greentrad

Subject: RE: Killed by the PEL system
From: 8_Pints
Date: 04 Sep 02 - 02:59 PM

Congratulations Pete!

I'm glad perseverance has been duly rewarded.

Good luck,

Bob vG

Subject: RE: Killed by the PEL system
From: Mr Happy
Date: 04 Sep 02 - 08:07 PM

good luck also from me. the local session/come all ye in chester, run by colin matthews, who is lso editor of folk orbit[mag] has this month added a lengthy editorial speading the news about pels. many of our local folkie participants were unaware of this insidious threat, so hopefully there'll be more people adding their lobbying mps + spreading the word, pressure interest groups etc.

Subject: RE: Killed by the PEL system
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Sep 02 - 09:10 PM

After spending three weeks in England, I can report that English pub sings are alive, well, and delightful. The incident at Greenwich is unfortunate, but it may give the PEL opponents the publicity they need.

Even if the PEL's continue, 300 quid for 104 sessions doesn't seem like a lot of money.

I did notice that some pubs don't welcome singers, and I suppose that's the way it should be. In one pub in Whitby, I mentioned that I was a singer, and the guy next to me politely pointed out the "no singing, no dancing" sign above me.

I just wish Shambles would figure out he should post his messages just once, instead of his habit of posting each message in three separate threads. That sort of practice is far worse for his cause than the Greenwich incident. Spam, even in the name of a worthy cause, is still Spam. That is my personal opinion, and not an official statement of Mudcat. I believe I am entitled to an opinion.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Killed by the PEL system
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Sep 02 - 12:29 AM

THANKS JOE -

Shambles has certainly made a mess of his case over the past 18 months, losing more supporters than he has gained through his hysterics.

Subject: RE: Killed by the PEL system
From: The Shambles
Date: 05 Sep 02 - 03:22 AM

It is unfortunate Joe that you and and few others do not appear have not actually read the posts you are so critical of.

This does not of course mean that you are not free to express a personal opinion of the current situation, based on a short if selected reading of selected pubs, completly ignoring most of the cases listed in this thread and the often expressed wish that opinions should be expressed in one of the 'countless' other threads (spread over 2 years.

I would suggest that it is your and others perception of this being 'my' cause, that is presenting you with a problem, one that they are happy to leave to the many others who are fighting it and need their help. Is it really such a dreadful thing sometimes to have re-read a message in a thread that you are interested enough in, to open?

Unless of course you are opening it for the sole reason of looking for something to complain about. Despite Joe's complacent reading of the current situation, there really is plenty to complain about without confining these complaints to petty personal issues.

Whatever small negative impact my posts may have, I hope that most catters wou;d feel that this are more than balanced by my positve contributions to the Mudcat over a long period, and the nature of the real threat.

Joe I have responded to your message here publicly, I will not do so again. Can I ask anyone who has a problem with me to please confine any personal criticisms about me, to personal messages addressed to me, and to now leave this thread for its purpose?

Subject: RE: Killed by the PEL system
From: Bullfrog Jones
Date: 05 Sep 02 - 05:39 AM

Hear, Hear -- keep it up.

BJ

Subject: RE: Killed by the PEL system
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 05 Sep 02 - 07:14 AM

It's good news that the session at "The Cricketers" may soon be going again - Linda and I looked in at the pub on Tuesday night and there were only 2 (non-folkies) in the whole place - instead of the crowd we would normally expect to see.

Subject: RE: Killed by the PEL system
From: GUEST,Pete Shaw
Date: 26 Sep 02 - 12:30 PM

The monthly acoustic session at the Blue Bell (John Clare's old pub) in Helpston village got hit last night Wed 25.9.02 by Peterborough City Council. pete.shaw@(nospam)peteshaw.co.uk

Subject: RE: Killed by the PEL system
From: The Shambles
Date: 26 Sep 02 - 01:47 PM

Sorry to hear this Pete. Could you post some more info here when you have it, and keep us informed?

Subject: RE: Killed by the PEL system
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Sep 02 - 04:13 PM

Here is Part 2 - so please post there. This thread is taking too long to load.