24 July 2002 Day of Action - PELs

Subject: RE: 24 July 2002 Day of Action - PELs
From: Sarah the flute
Date: 24 Jul 02 - 03:08 PM

I think I put my comments on the wrong PEL thread didn't see this one - saw the 6.30 news tho. Well done boys!

Subject: RE: 24 July 2002 Day of Action - PELs
From: Micca
Date: 24 Jul 02 - 03:04 PM

Hi Guys, you were on the BBC London news on TV at 6.30!!!

Subject: RE: 24 July 2002 Day of Action - PELs
From: The Shambles
Date: 24 Jul 02 - 02:35 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2149289.stm

The BBC news coverage above.

There were many TV people and press people at the event, it would be useful, if you see any of this in the media that you let us know here.

Thanks to all who turned up or were with with us in spirit. We do need, I think to organise a folk event, for the same purpose - any suggestions?

Subject: RE: 24 July 2002 Day of Action - PELs
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 24 Jul 02 - 11:19 AM

An enjoyable (and alcoholic) lunchtime was had by all who turned up. Watch Ch 5 and other news tonight and you might see Biily Bragg singing, accompanied by a group including The Shambles, McGrath, and yours truly - yes Kevin and I were duetting on back-packer guitars. Kevin also managed to sing his anti-PEL song.

Subject: RE: 24 July 2002 Day of Action - PELs
From: Lanfranc
Date: 24 Jul 02 - 05:51 AM

Had I received more notice, I could have been there, too, but there probably wouldn't have been room for me!

"De minimis non curat lex." = The law does not concern itself with trifles. It shouldn't, but it does, because it is too often enforced by Jobsworths.

Re Howells' singing voice, let Flanders & Swann have the last word:

"The Welshman's dishonest he cheats when he can
He's little and dark, more like monkey than man
He works underground with a lamp in his hat
And he sings far too loud, far too often, and flat!"

Ducking swiftly and heading for the bunker recently vacated by Ann Robinson!

Alan

Subject: RE: 24 July 2002 Day of Action - PELs
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 24 Jul 02 - 04:19 AM

Work permitting, I should be able to make it.

McGrath - I'll have my Ashbury back-packer guitar with me, so if you've got yours we can play a duet !

Subject: RE: 24 July 2002 Day of Action - PELs
From: The Shambles
Date: 24 Jul 02 - 01:48 AM

Well Lord Archer won't be stealing all the headlines today! Like he did the last time this was tried, for it was the day he got sent to prison and it did divert the journalist's attention from anything else.

I wonder what other news will turn up?

Subject: RE: 24 July 2002 Day of Action - PELs
From: vectis
Date: 23 Jul 02 - 05:55 PM

Hope all goes well and you get loads of publicity. I'll be there in spirit.

Subject: RE: 24 July 2002 Day of Action - PELs
From: Cappuccino
Date: 23 Jul 02 - 05:44 PM

I really am very sorry I can't be there. With you in spirit, though.

- Ian B

Subject: RE: 24 July 2002 Day of Action - PELs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Jul 02 - 05:39 PM

Friday 17th August 2001 on the BBC Sports site:

The National Criminal Intelligence Service annual report shows 3,391 people were arrested for football-related offences last season - up 8.1% on the previous year.

It concluded that although violence inside stadiums is rare, the problem has shifted to stations, pubs and town centres.

Subject: RE: 24 July 2002 Day of Action - PELs
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 23 Jul 02 - 05:37 PM

I might.... depends if I can get out of work for a long lunch..... and if I can get down Tottenham Court Road in less than a lifetime!

LTS

Subject: RE: 24 July 2002 Day of Action - PELs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Jul 02 - 05:31 PM

Of course they wouldn't have any qualms about insisting on a special licences to allow people to watch TV in a pub, and then they'd enforce it against watching the Teletubbies - if they thought they could get away with it.

But any attempt to clamp down on TV in pubs would get a lot of people really pissed off with the minister responsible. Which is why he is clearly leaning over backwards not to see any evidence about discord in front of and after watching the box.

Here is a site which might provide ways of getting this information Research into Football Violence (Hooliganism!)

With giant TV screens talking the place of attendance at live football matches, notably during the World Cup, I think this might well be something that could repay investigation. After all, it's a sight easier for an overexcited fan to get tanked up at a virtual football match than at the real ones. And the people who've been banned from the real matches because they are violent nuts have to go somewhere.

But they won't be at the The Red Lion tomorrow.

Subject: RE: 24 July 2002 Day of Action - PELs
From: The Shambles
Date: 23 Jul 02 - 04:14 PM

It certainly would be most useful to be able to find the evidence of disturbances at live TV sport coverage, that Dr Howells cannot find.

There must be press coverage of this somewhere?

Subject: RE: 24 July 2002 Day of Action - PELs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Jul 02 - 04:03 PM

I'm pretty sure there have been a number of occasions where football fans coming out of pubs after watching a match on the box have been involved in fights where serious injuries have occurred.

I know I dropped into town centre pub just after a match involving England in the World Cup, and it felt decidedly hairy - and that wasn't one where they'd lost, or where there were any local people backing the other team.

Howells really is an apology for a minister isn't he?

Subject: RE: 24 July 2002 Day of Action - PELs
From: The Shambles
Date: 23 Jul 02 - 01:37 PM

Where was Mr Mole?

Subject: RE: 24 July 2002 Day of Action - PELs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Jul 02 - 12:03 PM

He didn't say he couldn't sing, just that it sounded horrible. That's plausible enough.

Subject: RE: 24 July 2002 Day of Action - PELs
From: The Shambles
Date: 23 Jul 02 - 09:59 AM

Spontaeous and exempt it may be but if you had a good time and intend to repeat it the following week, it then becomes public entertainment and illegal without a licence.

Subject: RE: 24 July 2002 Day of Action - PELs
From: The Shambles
Date: 23 Jul 02 - 09:55 AM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/music/2145258.stm

The above link for the BBC coverage of the event and Billy Bragg's views.

Subject: RE: 24 July 2002 Day of Action - PELs
From: Bullfrog Jones
Date: 23 Jul 02 - 09:18 AM

And I thought I was getting there with the HTML! (sigh)
BJ

Subject: RE: 24 July 2002 Day of Action - PELs
From: Bullfrog Jones
Date: 23 Jul 02 - 09:16 AM

On the radi? The radish? radiator? radar? radical network? radiolaria? Be specific McG!!
With regard to televised football not causing disturbances in pubs, Howells is talking through his arse again. Anyone who went into a pub anytime in the twelve hours following England's World Cup morning kick-offs knows what it's like. AndAnd what's this nonsense about not being able to sing? The man's Welsh -- of course he can sing!!
BJ @@
(~~)

Subject: RE: 24 July 2002 Day of Action - PELs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Jul 02 - 08:34 AM

I'll be there at the Red Lion - so that's me and the Shambles, from the Mudcat. Any more?

It's starting to look like we're getting a wee bit more attention. My wife said she just heard something on the radi about it.

Subject: RE: 24 July 2002 Day of Action - PELs
From: The Shambles
Date: 23 Jul 02 - 08:11 AM

Alcohol and Entertainment Licensing Bill

1. Siobhain McDonagh (Mitcham and Morden): If she will make a statement on her policy towards the licensing of televising of sport in public houses under the terms of the proposed Alcohol and Entertainment Licensing Bill. [68956]

The Minister for Tourism, Film and Broadcasting (Dr. Kim Howells): As is the case with existing legislation, the proposed Alcohol and Entertainment Licensing Bill will not include the licensing of the televising of sport in public houses in its definition of public entertainment. A publican, of course, already requires and will continue to require a normal domestic television licence.

Siobhain McDonagh: I thank my hon. Friend for his answer. However, given the licensing disparity between televised football and live music in pubs—the former is subject to no regulation but the latter is subject to a complicated regulation mechanism—will he encourage members of the Cabinet to look at introducing legislation in the Queen's Speech that will reform the public entertainment licence system and encourage live music and particularly young musicians in small venues?

Dr. Howells: We will certainly look at getting rid of the absurd two in a bar rule. I have looked long and hard at the evidence, but we have never received any to suggest that watching television in a pub causes the kinds of scenes that have sometimes occurred in pubs with live music. Nor, indeed, have we had any reports of disturbances caused by watching television in a pub—we have certainly received some reports of incidents following the playing of live music in pubs. Generally speaking, however, pubs are excellent venues for live music. We want to make sure that that continues to be the case and that there are more venues for live music, not fewer.

Mr. Kelvin Hopkins (Luton, North): Following that very welcome answer, does my hon. Friend agree that the distinction between two musicians and seven musicians is irrelevant, and that the real issue is the amount of noise? A string quartet or an unamplified jazz group should be perfectly acceptable in a pub, should people choose to listen to them. Does he also agree that more venues for live music would give work to tens of thousands of amateur musicians and increase our country's cultural richness?

Dr. Howells: I am very much in favour of live music in pubs, but I am not in favour of any Minister in Parliament trying to define what constitutes jazz, folk music or any other kind of music. I have been the victim of one man with an amplifier that nearly blew my head off.

Mr. Speaker: Question 2. Mr. Mole is not here.

Subject: RE: 24 July 2002 Day of Action - PELs
From: My guru always said
Date: 23 Jul 02 - 08:00 AM

This Red Lion thing looks like a wonderful happening, but will it get the coverage it deserves??

I sure hope so!

Keep it up you two - you're not talking to yourselves - we hear you and are grateful ;-)

Subject: RE: 24 July 2002 Day of Action - PELs
From: The Shambles
Date: 23 Jul 02 - 06:09 AM

Entertainment Licences

5. Lawrie Quinn (Scarborough and Whitby): What plans she has to reduce the cost of entertainment licences for live music in pubs and clubs. [68961]

The Minister for Tourism, Film and Broadcasting (Dr. Kim Howells): Our plans for the modernisation of the alcohol and entertainment licensing regimes were set out clearly in the White Paper "Time for Reform". The proposed new licensing system will remove at a stroke a considerable amount of existing red tape and reduce the licensing costs that currently deter many venues from providing live music and dancing. The reforms will be implemented by means of primary legislation to be introduced as soon as parliamentary time permits.

Lawrie Quinn: I thank my hon. Friend for that answer and for his recent excellent two-day visit to my constituency. [Hon. Members: "Two days?"] It is a big constituency. As he will remember, he had a listening brief on that occasion and, regretfully, turned down my invitation to go into some of the bars in Whitby to add his baritone voice to the great deal of notable folk-singing that goes on in the area. Next time he visits my constituency, will the people of Scarborough and Whitby be able to hear his lovely voice?

Dr. Howells: I could clear the entire Chamber within three bars.

Mr. David Heath (Somerton and Frome): May I draw the hon. Gentleman's attention to early-day motion 1182, tabled in my name? It has been signed by nearly 200 right hon. and hon. Members, which underlines the view across the House that it is a ridiculous law that needs to be amended at the first opportunity. May I extend a welcome to him to visit not only Scarborough but, in a spirit of amity across the Bristol channel, the Red Lion, just across the road, at 12 o'clock on Wednesday, where I, other hon. Members and Billy Bragg will be engaged in a little light singing that may or may not contravene the present law, but will serve to show what a ridiculous law it is?

Dr. Howells: I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will turn out to be a star performer, but it all sounds a bit left-wing for me.

Subject: RE: 24 July 2002 Day of Action - PELs
From: The Shambles
Date: 23 Jul 02 - 05:57 AM

Subject: RE: PELs Dr Howells on Mike Harding Show
From: fogie
Date: 23-Jul-02 - 04:04 AM

I hear on radio 4 that Billy Bragg is singing in a pub opposite the houses of parliament onWed 24 at 12 noon to confront the issues. There was quite an exchange in the house of commons yesterday. The pub is the Red Lion.

Subject: RE: 24 July 2002 Day of Action - PELs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jul 02 - 08:33 PM

They don't give us much notice about these things do they? I'll see what I can do about getting there.

Subject: 24 July 2002 Day of Action - PELs
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Jul 02 - 07:52 PM

http://www.jazznights.co.uk/musicissues.htm

More info on the above site of another Day of Action in London. This is on Wednesday 24 July 2002. Mid-day at The Red Lion in Whitehall.

A long way to come (for some) but I will be coming up from Dorset and I hope to meet you there.