Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafesj

Post to this Thread - Printer Friendly - Home
Page: [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10]


Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)

Related threads:
Post Katrina; Songs mentioning/about N O (12)
BS: positive suggestions for disaster planning (42)
New Orleans Musicians who survived (23)
BS: Katrina's real name? (36)
BS: Really... Why Rebuild N.O.'s???... (58)
BS: 3,000 jobless in New Orleans (26)
BS: Hurricane Rita, Mother Nature, & FEMA (155)
BS: Need info about the Red Cross (68)
BS: Hurricane AFTERMATH (208)
BS: Rush Limbaugh blames Katrina's victims (96)
New Orleans Catters? (58)
BS: Black looters, white finders (224)
Lyr Add: My City's In Ruins (New Orleans) (8)
BS: So Where will The Next Disaster Hit? (91)
Hurricane Relief Song: Big Muddy (MP3) (4)
BS: New Orleans (39)
Song Challenge: Killer of New Orleans (34)
BS: My editorial cartoon on Federal Response (14)
BS: Controlling hurricanes (41)
BS: Greater Federal Authority? (23)
BS: Katrina Kamps (11)
BS: Katrina: Sequence of Events (31)
BS: Astrology, Coincidences, Karma & Katrina (102)
BS: Left Behind in New Orleans: the elderly (25)
BS: Why 'NOLA' and suchlike? (51)
BS: Barbie explains it all (22)
Fats Domino missing in New Orleans -found! (35)
A Harrowing Account, Got to be new Thred (16)
Tabasco Sauce, Avery Isle, is it there? (12)
Neti Vaan and Bart Ramsey?Newn Orleans? (2)
BS: Houston Astrodome Censor (12)
BS: Bush to tell HIS side of story. (44)
BS: View any house in disaster area (4)
BS: PoppaGator survives Katrina.... (23)
BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV (106)
BS: remember... (6)
BS: Karl Rove v. Hillary on Katrina... (20)
BS: Genocide in New Orleans (177)
BS: more hurricane warnings (105)
BS: New Orleans Will Drown Again (65)
Hurricane Relief: How can I help? (29)
BS: Faith Based Disaster Relief! Ta Da!!! (33)
City of New Orleans - radio requests (21)
BS: the only send money syndrome (27)
BS: One Triumph Over Bureaucracy! (4)
Alive and well and OUT of New Orleans (61)
BS: Mike Brown of FEMA (6)
CD BABY and Hurricane Relief (4)
BS: Bobert to take on Katrina... (76)
Aftermath (11)
BS: Katrina photos (8)


GUEST,Ron Davies 05 Sep 05 - 09:37 PM
Peace 05 Sep 05 - 11:41 PM
GUEST,Alan Day 06 Sep 05 - 05:08 AM
GUEST,g 06 Sep 05 - 06:49 AM
GUEST,G 06 Sep 05 - 07:14 AM
GUEST,G 06 Sep 05 - 07:20 AM
The Fooles Troupe 06 Sep 05 - 07:23 AM
GUEST 06 Sep 05 - 11:00 AM
DMcG 06 Sep 05 - 11:15 AM
Susu's Hubby 06 Sep 05 - 11:29 AM
Amos 06 Sep 05 - 11:45 AM
GUEST,Jon 06 Sep 05 - 12:00 PM
GUEST,Jon 06 Sep 05 - 12:04 PM
DMcG 06 Sep 05 - 12:05 PM
CarolC 06 Sep 05 - 12:26 PM
Alan Day 06 Sep 05 - 01:01 PM
GUEST,Jon 06 Sep 05 - 01:15 PM
GUEST 06 Sep 05 - 01:23 PM
Azizi 06 Sep 05 - 01:31 PM
Peace 06 Sep 05 - 01:55 PM
CarolC 06 Sep 05 - 01:57 PM
GUEST,Peter Woodruff 06 Sep 05 - 03:56 PM
McGrath of Harlow 06 Sep 05 - 05:59 PM
Alan Day 06 Sep 05 - 06:04 PM
GUEST,G 06 Sep 05 - 06:24 PM
The Fooles Troupe 06 Sep 05 - 07:03 PM
Peace 06 Sep 05 - 07:07 PM
Sidewalk Bob 06 Sep 05 - 09:07 PM
Peace 06 Sep 05 - 09:11 PM
CarolC 06 Sep 05 - 09:36 PM
Amos 06 Sep 05 - 10:47 PM
GUEST,Ron Davies 06 Sep 05 - 11:12 PM
GUEST,TIA 06 Sep 05 - 11:23 PM
CarolC 06 Sep 05 - 11:28 PM
GUEST,Alan Day 07 Sep 05 - 04:43 AM
DMcG 07 Sep 05 - 05:15 AM
Azizi 07 Sep 05 - 01:43 PM
Don Firth 07 Sep 05 - 02:26 PM
McGrath of Harlow 07 Sep 05 - 03:10 PM
GUEST,Peter Woodruff 07 Sep 05 - 03:52 PM
CarolC 07 Sep 05 - 11:13 PM
Azizi 07 Sep 05 - 11:16 PM
CarolC 08 Sep 05 - 12:16 AM
curmudgeon 08 Sep 05 - 06:18 AM
The Fooles Troupe 08 Sep 05 - 06:21 AM
GUEST 08 Sep 05 - 07:39 AM
Azizi 08 Sep 05 - 11:30 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 09 Sep 05 - 12:08 AM
GUEST,G 09 Sep 05 - 06:45 AM
Peace 09 Sep 05 - 10:25 AM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum Child
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:













Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: GUEST,Ron Davies
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 09:37 PM

As I pointed out earlier in this thread, according to the Wall St Journal there was a huge contrast in the federal response to the Florida hurricanes in 2004, just prior to the election (i.e with Mr Brown already in charge of FEMA) and the federal response this time to the disaster particularly in New Orleans. The obvious conclusion is that for some reason this time the political will to respond massively and immediately was missing. Why this is so is a reasonable question.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Peace
Date: 05 Sep 05 - 11:41 PM

Remarks from a Pulitzer winner.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: GUEST,Alan Day
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 05:08 AM

I would be grateful for an explanation as to the early details of this disaster as this seemed to be a key to the lack of initial response,which has shocked us all.
We first heard that this storm was massive and that it was going to hit the area affected.At the time of the hurricane hitting that area we received no information at all in the UK ,only to confirm that it had hit and the route it was taking.From then on very little actual
information.The information that the water had broken down the flood barriers and that hundreds/thousands of people were drowning did not reach us.The fact that no immediate rescue plan had been organised has been well documented on this site.The response being so slow and Bush non action makes me wonder if there was a complete breakdown of communication.Was there in place emergency phone link ups to warn the Country of this catastrophe, or did it take three days to get the information to Bush? If this is the case it is not suprising that nothing was done in the early stages and that would point the finger to the person/s responsable for communication in that area.
Al


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: GUEST,g
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 06:49 AM

Al, your calm and sensible approach to a discussion on what transpired in the first 3 or 4 days will soon be be met a derision, catcalls and, of course, it is all GWBs' fault.

So far, we really don't know everything that attributed to this mess. On the Saturday before the Hurricane struck, Bush declared the entire area a "disaster area" . This would permit Local and State Government to get outside their jurisdictions for help. What may hel you to understand is the 13 page Emergency Opertions" outline for the city of New Orleans which places the mayor of that city totally in charge. Another thing to keep in mind is the FEMA organization has allows said a minimum of 72 hours is required to get supplies on site. Star=-e Government did not react and it would appear that FEMA had to cut through red tape. The current director of FEMA, the LA Governor and the Mayor should be removed from office. The office of FEMA, in my opinion, should be made a stand alone operation with a directoe who is empowered to go to any other agency for assistance.

Changes that have been made apparently are not functioning as well and it took this disaster to demostrate that. I have been through a couple major situations (nothing like this) and the CEO only needed to get a report of who was affected, how long it took and any new suggestions on how to do it better in the future. Those were a flood, and earthquake and a blizzard.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: GUEST,G
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 07:14 AM

Al, pardon my crummy typing in the previous post.
It is not quite 6 am here.
One more comment and this has to due with past outlandish statements made in thse hallowed halls by some who have even less of a clue than I. This has to due with fund, which GWB was accused of not doing it, for Homeland Security. This comes from a friend in a hard hit area formerly know as Bay St. Louis, MS.
He visited this emergency-response hospital for a Tetnus booster and was amazed at whay he saw. and all was funded ny the Homeland Security Act.
113 beds
Ultrasound
Digital Radiology
Satellite internet access
Full Pharmacy
This would have been located in LA ......just saw this in the Trib..........and I quote "With such demand, its' hard to imagine that the Doctors weren't allowed to set up shop in Louisana, their original destination. They were stymied by red tape ther"
Doctors' quote follows; "Mississippi stepped up and said, 'if they don't want you, we will take you". This from Dr. Blackwell, an emergency Doctor from Charlotte, NC. He said the delay in getting deployed was a dispute with Louisana over what they would be allowed to do.
Al, just set tight as we are here. The truth/facts will come out. I am going down as part of a cleanup group for possibly a month and I don't plan on getting any more factual information than I am getting now. (On the list, not scheduled to go as yet)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: GUEST,G
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 07:20 AM

Al, some of my info comes from a former neighbor who lived in Bay St. Louis, MS. His house was elevevated around 16 feet above sealevel but still close to the water. Second row of houses. Built to Hurricane specs but to now avail. Completely gone - the only thing remaining was part of the large slab which showed signs of eroding.
He said we may never know the total power of Katrina.
I am outta' here, nice chatting with you.
"G"


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 07:23 AM

Hmmm, Alan Day,

We in Australia have, to pardon the expression, been swamped with coverage and discussion. The only reason the commercial networks haven;t gone to non-stop direct live coverage is because there were no live feeds from there - we went live to London (the bombings) twice recently - the 2nd one was just talking heads fantasising about what might be happening!

We did have a handful of tourists there - the political spin off has been considerable cause the US refused to allow out diplomats in after having Australia bend over and take up the fundamental orifice by sending our troops every time the US sneezes!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 11:00 AM

I just read most of this thread and find one post reflects the lack of knowledge/information that is prevelant.

Waaaaay back on 9/01/05 @10:54 PM, number 6 responded to a Guest "G" post, several posts before, that there were plans to raise the height of the levees in case a storm stronger than a Catagory 3 would hit. NO!
The levees were designed eons ago to withstand a level 3, no more.
The main reason for raising the height is due to the fact that they, as well as New Orleans, are slowly sinking downward. The possibility of raising them could have caused more breaching as the wind and waves would have more surface to push against. The purpose for raising has been all over the media and in past publications. They are sinking!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: DMcG
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 11:15 AM

If you have read most of the thread, GUEST, you will have seen that as far as cat 3/cat 4 issues on the levees were concerned, it was pretty much put to rest in this thread by 03 Sep 05 - 08:57 PM.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 11:29 AM

Where does the blame need to go?



It looks as if some people need to brush up on what are state's responsibilities and fed's responsibilities and put the blame where blame is due. In the meantime, instead of mis-directing all of your continued hatred on the president, why don't you re-direct your strong feelings toward the people that are affected by this disaster and help them.
It'll get you a lot further and just maybe might make you feel good about something.



Hubby


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Amos
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 11:45 AM

I am sure Sung Yung agrees with your sentiments, Hub.

Let's not play the blame game, say the current posts from D.C. Never mind who could have saved lives except for being on vacation. That's all in the past, now and we have to concetrate on proactive measures.

Quite right.

But competence is competence and negligence is negligence, wherever it is found. Right now a lot of incompetence is appearing at the level of the President, his FEMA chosen lad, and their management of emergency resources. But, never mind. Things are getting straightened out. The incompetence cost a lot fewer lives than our glorious military adventure for the defense of the Motherland Rodina Fatherland Homeland, after all. No sweat, man. We'll get it right next time.

A


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 12:00 PM

I've just seen on the BBC site that Bush is to lead an enquiry see here.

So Bush will be guranteed blame free...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 12:04 PM

That said, I'm sure if Bush can't cope and still wants impartiality, we could lend you a certain Lord Hutton.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: DMcG
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 12:05 PM

LOL, Jon, though it may be too much of a UK joke. I was wondering whether Tony B could spare the time myself.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 12:26 PM

Alan Day, all the president had to do was to watch the news on TV. He could have gotten all the information he needed just from that. Everybody else in the country knew what was going on, apparently, except for the president (and his people) and Condi Rice.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Alan Day
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 01:01 PM

Thank you for your reply Carol.I am interested to know when the details were televised of when the Flood barriers being breached,what day into this disaster was that covered on US television? Or reported? If this was the same day as the storm or even the day after then I agree with the point you raise regarding lack of action.It is only information I am after not excuses for your President.I can only say that in the UK it took some time for this detailed information to become available,was this the case over there,if so it was a communication breakdown on the days immediately following the storm.
Al


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 01:15 PM

In the UK, going by a BBC news page we knew over here on 30th August.


"Flood waters surged across the western part of the city after a vital flood defence gave way..."

see here

On 29th August:

Mayor Nagin said he had received reports that some water had already breached the barricades.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 01:23 PM

Al, CarolC is a citizen of the USA?

Are you sure?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Azizi
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 01:31 PM

Lost and Found:

"..a 6-year-old boy walking down the road, holding a 5-month-old, surrounded by five toddlers who followed him around as if he were their leader.

They were holding hands. Three of the children were about 2 years old, and one was wearing only diapers. A 3-year-old girl had her 14-month-old brother in tow. The 6-year-old spoke for all of them, and he said his name was Deamonte Love.

After their rescue Thursday, paramedics in the Baton Rouge rescue operations headquarters tried to coax their names out of them...

So far, parents displaced by flooding have reported 220 children missing, and that number is expected to rise, said Mike Kenner of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, which will help reunite families.

At the rescue headquarters, the children ate cafeteria food and fell into a deep sleep. Deamonte gave his address, his phone number and the name of his elementary school.
He said the 5-month-old was his brother, Darynael, and that two others were his cousins, Tyreek and Zoria. The other three lived in his apartment building.

The children were clean and healthy, said Joyce Miller, a nurse who examined them. It was clear, she said, that "time had been taken with those kids." The baby was "fat and happy."

False hope
Thursday night, they got an encouraging report: A woman in a shelter in Thibodeaux was searching for seven children. People in the building started clapping at the news. But when they got the mother on the phone, it became clear that she was looking for a different group of seven children.

The children were transferred to a shelter operated by the Department of Social Services, rooms full of toys and cribs where mentors from the Big Buddy Program were on hand. For the next two days, the staff did detective work....

Deamonte began to give more details to Derrick Robertson, a 27-year-old Big Buddy mentor: How he saw his mother cry when he was loaded onto the helicopter. How he promised he'd take care of his brother.
Late Saturday night, they found Deamonte's mother, who was in a shelter in San Antonio along with the four mothers of the other five children. Catrina Williams, 26, saw her children's pictures on a Web site set up over the weekend by the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. By Sunday, a private plane from Angel Flight was waiting to take the children to Texas.

In a phone interview, Williams said she is the kind of mother who doesn't let her children out of her sight. What happened on Thursday, she said, was that her family, trapped in an apartment building, began to feel desperate.

The water wasn't going down and they had been living without light, food or air conditioning for four days. The baby needed milk and the milk was gone. So she decided they would evacuate by helicopter. When a helicopter arrived to pick them up, they were told to send the children first and that the helicopter would be back in 25 minutes. She and her neighbors had to make a quick decision.
It was a wrenching moment. Williams' father, Adrian Love, told her to send the children ahead.

"I told them to go ahead and give them up because me, I would give my life for my kids. They should feel the same way," said Love, 48.
His daughter and her friends followed his advice.
"We did what we had to do for our kids because we love them," Williams said

The complete story HERE

-snip-

Notice how the newspaper first assumped that the children's parents had abandoned them or had died.

Unfortunately, there will be alot of orphans as result of this Hurricane and miserably failure of aftermath planning & support.
Undoubtably alot of children have died for lack of food, formula, water, not to mention drowning.

Whose fault is this?

Well, Bush could say that the buck stops at his desk, but I'm sure he won't.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Peace
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 01:55 PM

Certain bucks stop at his desk. Certain others don't.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 01:57 PM

Fox news was reporting it as it was happening, Alan Day. That's because one of their teams was stranded on the highway overpass where people were seeking refuge from the rising floodwaters along with the other people, right from the beginning. I saw it being reported as it was happening on other news outlets, and it was also being discussed in quite a few places on the internet at the same time. People here in the Mudcat were discussing it as it was happening, and long before Bush claims to have known about it. The threads right here in the Mudcat from those days provide all the evidence you need.

I knew what was going on there as it was happening. It's pretty inexcusable for the general population to be more well informed than "the leader of the free world", and the richest, most powerful country in the world. Don't you think?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: GUEST,Peter Woodruff
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 03:56 PM

We all have a lot of public relations to do if we are to turn this runaway maverick of a president and administration around! "tie 'im up an put him down!...rope him!" "Yeaha!" I wish it was as easy as a RODEO!
Peter


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 05:59 PM

Here's another version of that story saying that the "gunmen" shot by the police on the Danziger Bridge were in fact army contractors:

It is revealed that among the armed people killed by police on a bridge in New Orleans, were US constructors working for the army.

US Army Engineers Spokesman John Hall has declared those people killed by police were constructors, who were headed towards a channel restoration. He stated that the constructors were killed while on their way to Pontrchartrain River to repair the15th Street Channel.

New Orleans Police Chief Deputy W. J. Riley in a former statement said that the police opened fire against eight armed people on Danziger Bridge, located between Pontchtrain and Mississippi river, and five or six of them were killed as a result of the attack.


This time the report is from a Turkish paper. It sound as if the US media hasn't caught up with this development yet (even to correct out if it turns out to be wrong. But it sounds very much like the kind of thing that does happen.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Alan Day
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 06:04 PM

Thank you all for your information.It would appear that there was no communication breakdown.You have answered my question.
Al


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: GUEST,G
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 06:24 PM

The biggest communication breakdown that I have ever witnessed is demonstrated in the BS section of Mudcat.

Alan, wait for a week or two for the truth to come out. I had earlier thought that the head of FEMA should be fired as well as the Mayor of New Orleans, plus others. Now, I may have been mistaken.
Alan, just watch for further reports on the Governor of Louisana.

The Mayor did not follow the exact plan of the Emergency Outline but the overall debacle was not completely his fault. I am not saying there were not delays encountered higher up but in the case of the Governor, "you can lead a horse to water, but can't make them drink".

Wait a while to see the factual truth.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 07:03 PM

Peace
"Certain bucks stop at his desk"

pocket...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Peace
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 07:07 PM

S'what I meant, Foolestroupe.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Sidewalk Bob
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 09:07 PM

Well, well, well...

Outraged over Bush??? Well yeah, but less over what he hasn't done sine 9/11 but what he continues to ***not*** do...

Hey, this ain't rocker surgery here... The United Sates is facing a crisis it hasn't seen, ahhhh, maybe since Reconstruction!!!

That is, a massive reorganization of it's population!!!

Like, it's bad enuff that between the Depatrtment of Homeland Security and FEMA that the Bush administartion came away with an "F" but now??? Here we have a million 'er so dispalced people who are goiong to have to start over in a different place... Like is Houston ready to take on 50,000 new citizens... Tupelo, Mississippi a couple thousand???

Yeah, folks, this ain't the kinds of things that sate and local governemnts have the resources to accomplih... Remember them tax cuts to the rich??? Well, many folks haven't thought about how that impacted the revenues comin' into states but is has been cripplin'...

Don't think so? Write yer governo9r, Dem or Repub, and ask them...

So, TO WIT, along comes Bush and his Gang of Thieves sayin' that the stastes are jus gonmna have to pull tghemselves up by their bootstraps...


Hahahahaha....

Same patended response... The states ain't got the dough. "No Child Left Unrecruiid" has hit them hard and now Bush says that inspite of the fed's monumental failure with Katrina that the sates are gonna have to pull their weight????

Come on... Lets get real here fir just a second!!!

What Bush needs to do is call in a few markwers with thwe rich folks who have made out like bandit (maybe 'cause they are???...) and say to them, "Hey, if we don't give up a little of the wealth we been busy stealin' then maybe by November 2006 the Dems might get up the guts to make this thievery an issue and we'll find oursleves in jail with a bunch of folks who don't like us too much..."

Yeah, that's what he should be doing... But will he???

Nope, he won't... One thibng fir sure is that every time Bush has an opportunity to do the correct and Christain thing, he has done the exact opposite...

Sidewalk Bob(ert)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Peace
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 09:11 PM

"So, TO WIT, along comes Bush and his Gang of Thieves sayin' that the stastes are jus gonmna have to pull tghemselves up by their bootstraps..."

Hard to do when ya got no boots.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 09:36 PM

Guest, G, none of your excuses address the problems that people in Mississippi experienced with FEMA. You're just repeating the Bush administration spin. All over the state of Mississippi, people are just as upset with FEMA as they are in Louisiana. You can't pin that on the governor of Louisiana.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Amos
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 10:47 PM

Aaron Broussard, president of Jefferson Parish in New Orleans, was on
NBC's Meet the Press on Sunday, September 4, 2005. He gave a scathing
assessment of how our government has failed us in the wake of
Hurricane Katrina. But most notably, I was moved by his personal
story of how someone's mother was trapped in a nursing home and
subsequently died:

"The guy who runs this building I'm in, emergency management, he's
responsible for everything. His mother was trapped in St. Bernard
nursing home and every day she called him and said, 'Are you coming,
son? Is somebody coming?' And he said, 'Yeah, Mama, somebody's
coming to get you. Somebody's coming to get you on Tuesday.
Somebody's coming to get you on Wednesday. Somebody's coming to get
you on Thursday. Somebody's coming to get you on Friday.' And she
drowned Friday night. She drowned Friday night." -- Jefferson Parish
President Broussard

Video clip: http://www.crooksandliars.com/2005/09/04.html#a4783

Full Meet the Press transcript (Broussard's comments appear about
halfway down): http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9179790/


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: GUEST,Ron Davies
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 11:12 PM

Guest G and other Bush apologists (far be it from me to injure your tender sensibilities by calling you Bushites)--

Opening 2 paragraphs of top story in today's Wall St. Journal (6 Sept 2005):

"Just two weeks ago, five state emergency managers brought a tough message to a meeting in Washington with Homeland Security Michael Chernoff and his top deputies."

"We told them straight out that they were weakening emergency management with potentially disastrous consequences," says Dave Liebersbach, the director of Alaska's Division of Homeland Security and Emergency Management. The department's focus on terrorism was undermining its readiness for other catastrophes, said the visiting officials, who included emergency managers from Mississippi and Alabama."

I don't expect they wanted to be prophets.



I have a lot more to say, but no time now.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 11:23 PM

I think GWB learned all of his empathy from his mother.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 11:28 PM

Anyway, I wondered a few days ago about the possibility that the Bush people might have intentionally allowed things to get as bad as they did in Louisiana so they could take out a Democrat governor. Your last post, Guest,G, does seem to lend some credence to that supposition.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: GUEST,Alan Day
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 04:43 AM

I cannot understand why that a request for information can be taken as siding for or against whether someone is guilty.It is in everyones interest to find out the FULL FACTS, to firstly enable one to make a judgment and secondly to make sure this error is not repeated.
There must be many occasions in the past with a body gently swaying in the breeze for someone else to confess they did it.
It is only by getting all the facts that judgment can be made and it is at that point I will help you put the rope over the branch.
Al


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: DMcG
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 05:15 AM

While you are right, Alan, in saying the full facts are what are important, its an unfortunate fact of life that each side is more interested in, and gives more emphasis to, some facts than others. For example, back in March 2005, some experts were arguing that the existing categorisation was not really a good enough way to describe storms anyway. If they are right - and I don't know enough to say either way - any thinking based on the category of the storm may be misleading because it does not adequately distinguish between wind strength and the amount of water carried by the storm.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Azizi
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 01:43 PM

"Two Navy helicopter pilots and their crews returned from New Orleans on Aug. 30 expecting to be greeted as lifesavers after ferrying more than 100 hurricane victims to safety.

Instead, their superiors chided the pilots, Lt. David Shand and Lt. Matt Udkow, at a meeting the next morning for rescuing civilians when their assignment that day had been to deliver food and water to military installations along the Gulf Coast...

...Flying over Biloxi and Gulfport and other areas of Mississippi, they could see rescue personnel on the ground, Lieutenant Udkow said, but he noticed that there were few rescue units around the flooded city of New Orleans, on the ground or in the air. "It was shocking," he said.

Seeing people on the roofs of houses waving to him, Lieutenant Udkow headed in their direction. Hovering over power lines, his crew dropped a basket to pick up two residents at a time. He took them to Lakefront Airport, where local emergency medical teams had established a makeshift medical center.

Meanwhile, Lieutenant Shand landed his helicopter on the roof of an apartment building, where more than a dozen people were marooned. Women and children were loaded first aboard the helicopter and ferried to the airport, he said.

Returning to pick up the rest, the crew learned that two blind residents had not been able to climb up through the attic to the roof and were still in the building. Two crew members entered the darkened building to find the men, and led them to the roof and into the helicopter, Lieutenant Shand said.

Recalling the rescues in an interview, he became so emotional that he had to stop and compose himself. At one point, he said, he executed a tricky landing at a highway overpass, where more than 35 people were marooned.

Lieutenant Udkow said that he saw few other rescue helicopters in New Orleans that day. The toughest part, he said, was seeing so many people imploring him to pick them up and having to leave some.

"I would be looking at a family of two on one roof and maybe a family of six on another roof, and I would have to make a decision who to rescue," he said. "It wasn't easy."

While refueling at a Coast Guard landing pad in early evening, Lieutenant Udkow said, he called Pensacola and received permission to continue rescues that evening. According to the pilots and other military officials, they rescued 110 people.

The next morning, though, the two crews were called to a meeting with Commander Holdener, who said he told them that while helping civilians was laudable, the lengthy rescue effort was an unacceptable diversion from their main mission of delivering supplies. With only two helicopters available at Pensacola to deliver supplies, the base did not have enough to allow pilots to go on prolonged search and rescue operations....

-snip-

For the complete story, click Navy pilots save people and are reprimanded


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Don Firth
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 02:26 PM

Interesting, Azizi.

While one can only applaud what the helicopter crews did, one can also see why Commander Holdener wasn't happy.

That raises the question:   how come there were only two helicopters available?

Don Firth


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 03:10 PM

Presumably the military personnel in those military installations were in imminent risk of death if those supplies were delayed a few hours.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: GUEST,Peter Woodruff
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 03:52 PM

Maggie and I have pledged money to the Red Cross at home and we have pledge money today at work and we will continue to pledge money to the American Red Cross Disaster Relief Fund until New Orleans is back together again. I hope all of you can find it in your hearts and pocketbooks to do the same. I want to see the people of New Orleans and enjoy their great culturally flavorfull city someday in my life.
Maggie and I were going on vacation in New Orleans in October. Maggie is a baritone in the Royal River Chorus, a barbershop chorus in the Sweet Adeline Society. The Sweet Adelines were to hold a world competetion in New Orleans in October. Maggie and I are still crying for the Bush Disaster that didn't have to be.

Maggie and me


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 11:13 PM

"Under the law, Chertoff said, state and local officials must direct initial emergency operations. 'The federal government comes in and supports those officials,' he said.

Chertoff's remarks, which echoed earlier statements by President Bush, prompted withering rebukes both from former senior FEMA staffers and outside experts.

'They can't do that,' former agency chief of staff Jane Bullock said of Bush administration efforts to shift responsibility away from Washington. 'The moment the president declared a federal disaster, it became a federal responsibility�. The federal government took ownership over the response,' she said. Bush declared a disaster in Louisiana and Mississippi when the storm hit a week ago.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-fema5sep05,0,2650635,full.story?coll=la-home-headlines


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Azizi
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 11:16 PM

NBC News Anchor Brian Williams writes about efforts to block
coverage of aftermath of hurricane in New Orleans:

"...National Guard soldiers are ubiquitous. At one fire scene, I counted law enforcement personnel (who I presume were on hand to guarantee the safety of the firefighters) from four separate jurisdictions, as far away as Connecticut and Illinois. And tempers are getting hot. While we were attempting to take pictures of the National Guard (a unit from Oklahoma) taking up positions outside a Brooks Brothers on the edge of the Quarter, the sergeant ordered us to the other side of the boulevard. The short version is: there won't be any pictures of this particular group of guard soldiers on our newscast tonight. Rules (or I suspect in this case an order on a whim) like those do not HELP the palpable feeling that this area is somehow separate from the United States.

At that same fire scene, a police officer from out of town raised the muzzle of her weapon and aimed it at members of the media... obvious members of the media... armed only with notepads. Her actions (apparently because she thought reporters were encroaching on the scene) were over the top and she was told. There are automatic weapons and shotguns everywhere you look. It's a stance that perhaps would have been appropriate during the open lawlessness that has long since ended on most of these streets. Someone else points out on television as I post this: the fact that the National Guard now bars entry (by journalists) to the very places where people last week were barred from LEAVING (The Convention Center and Superdome) is a kind of perverse and perfectly backward postscript to this awful chapter in American history..."

For more click MSNBC


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 12:16 AM

Katrina timeline...

http://thinkprogress.org/katrina-timeline/


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: curmudgeon
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 06:18 AM

And yet another time line...

CHRONOLOGY....Here's a timeline that outlines the fate of
both FEMA and flood control projects in New Orleans under
the Bush administration. Read it and weep:

      o January 2001: Bush appoints Joe Allbaugh, a crony
       from Texas, as head of FEMA. Allbaugh has no previous
       experience in disaster management.

      o April 2001: Budget Director Mitch Daniels announces
       the Bush administration's goal of privatizing much of
       FEMA's work. In May, Allbaugh confirms that FEMA will be
       downsized: "Many are concerned that federal disaster
       assistance may have evolved into both an oversized
       entitlement program...." he said. "Expectations of when the
       federal government should be involved and the degree of
       involvement may have ballooned beyond what is an
       appropriate level."

      o 2001: FEMA designates a major hurricane hitting New
       Orleans as one of the three "likeliest, most catastrophic
       disasters facing this country."

      o December 2002: After less than two years at FEMA,
       Allbaugh announces he is leaving to start up a consulting
       firm that advises companies seeking to do business in Iraq.
       He is succeeded by his deputy, Michael Brown, who, like
       Allbaugh, has no previous experience in disaster management.

      o March 2003: FEMA is downgraded from a cabinet level
       position and folded into the Department of Homeland
       Security. Its mission is refocused on fighting acts of
       terrorism.

      o 2003: Under its new organization chart within DHS,
       FEMA's preparation and planning functions are reassigned to
       a new Office of Preparedness and Response. FEMA will
       henceforth focus only on response and recovery.

      o Summer 2004: FEMA denies Louisiana's pre-disaster
       mitigation funding requests. Says Jefferson Parish flood
       zone manager Tom Rodrigue: "You would think we would get
       maximum consideration....This is what the grant program
       called for. We were more than qualified for it."

      o June 2004: The Army Corps of Engineers budget for
       levee construction in New Orleans is slashed. Jefferson
       Parish emergency management chiefs Walter Maestri comments:
       "It appears that the money has been moved in the
       president's budget to handle homeland security and the war
       in Iraq, and I suppose that's the price we pay."

      o June 2005: Funding for the New Orleans district of
       the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers is cut by a record $71.2
       million. One of the hardest-hit areas is the Southeast
       Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project, which was created
       after the May 1995 flood to improve drainage in Jefferson,
       Orleans and St. Tammany parishes.

      o August 2005: While New Orleans is undergoing a slow
       motion catastrophe, Bush mugs for the cameras, cuts a cake
       for John McCain, plays the guitar for Mark Wills, delivers
       an address about V-J day, and continues with his vacation.
       When he finally gets around to acknowledging the scope of
       the unfolding disaster, he delivers only a photo op on Air
       Force One and a flat, defensive, laundry list speech in the
       Rose Garden.

So: A crony with no relevant experience was installed as
head of FEMA. Mitigation budgets for New Orleans were
slashed even though it was known to be one of the top three
risks in the country. FEMA was deliberately downsized as
part of the Bush administration's conservative agenda to
reduce the role of government. After DHS was created,
FEMA's preparation and planning functions were taken away.

Actions have consequences. No one could predict that a
hurricane the size of Katrina would hit this year, but the
slow federal response when it did happen was no accident.
It was the result of four years of deliberate Republican
policy and budget choices that favor ideology and partisan
loyalty at the expense of operational competence. It's the
Bush administration in a nutshell.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 06:21 AM

I learnt all about the US National Guard by watching the movie 'First Blood'.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 07:39 AM

Peter, "The Bush disaster that didn't have to be".

Surely you jest!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Azizi
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 11:30 PM

comment from a conservative:

Friday, September 02, 2005

"I've considered myself a socially libertarian, fiscally conservative Republican for a very long time. I got along with the idea that I wasn't going to get a whole lot of help. College wouldn't be free. Job training would cost money and time. And I'm probably a decent example of up-from-not-much.

But after watching what's happening in New Orleans-an American city that I've loved, visited and have always wanted to return to - I can't ever vote for these people again.

Being a Republican means that you expect the government to do just a couple things for you and nothing else. Build a road. Defend us from enemies, foreign and domestic. Stuff that would be a lot less organized if we all had to do it ourselves. Everything else is just gravy.

And as we poured money into Department of Homeland Security, and the Federal Emergency Management Agency, I thought, "Right on," because some of that money's bound to fall on my head.

Well, something else would fall on my head first.

I work for the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department. And that means that if something really catastrophic happens in MY city, and they ask me to stick around, that's the job. We have A and B teams and I'm a disaster recovery specialist on Team A. I've drawn up plans with names like Drawbridge and Smoldering Crater.

Here's what these people would do for me.

They would leave me there to die.

Look at the facts. There's no coordination on the ground right now. The city has no fresh water, no electricity, no services. The floodwater has so much oil and toxins in it that it's flammable.

In psychology they have what is called a fight-or-flight response. When faced with danger, do you subdue it or do you flee? Some of it has to do with risk assessment, but in this case, there is no flight. There is nowhere to run. So flight means die. If my choice was to pull a pistol on a truck driver or Nat, Jarren, Jayson, or any of you dies, that's no choice at all.

I'm not talking about the looters grabbing big-screen televisions and basketball hoops. I'm talking about the ones that are chest-deep in water carrying bottled water and diapers. You can't tell me for three days to be patient, the bus is coming, and they're piling up bodies in the street median.

We have known that this sort of disaster could occur for a century. Hell, the tour bus driver told me about it on the plantation tour. This means that we have been able to envision the stark reality of this occurring for a week-the newspapers all said the storm would hit New Orleans last Thursday.

A week to get buses? A week to get fishing boats? Trucks? This is the United States! I read someone who said, "All the people who weren't bedridden, or had money, or had cars left. The people that are left had none of those things."

There are people tonight who are going to sleep on overpasses for the fourth straight night. There are prisoners who will do the same. There are people dying at a convention center because no one will tell them that no one is coming for them, and the National Guard is protecting the kitchens. There are police officers who are turning in their badges because they've lost everything, have no guidance, and don't want to be shot by a looter.

There are people tonight inside a concrete domed stadium with holes in the roof and no air conditioning who were told the buses are coming today, and they might, or they might not. There is no food. There is no water. There are bodies floating through the neighborhoods.

In the UNITED STATES.

Some people say that you can't hold the President responsible for this. Oh, yes you can. Because when he looked over at John Ashcroft after the jets hit the towers and said, "I want you to make sure this never happens again," it was not meant to be specific to "no more planes hitting large buildings on the East Coast, right, boss." It was meant that no American should have to run for his life through an American city. While Americans may perish in a senseless, unforeseen disaster, we'd save the ones we could.

And the Cabinet appointees were mushwits and he could barely speak a complete sentence and we're sending people overseas for God knows how long to help people who are indifferent at worst and hostile at best, but they were going to protect us. In 2004, that's all a lot of us needed. Well right now, it's obvious that they can't.

Ask yourself this: What if Al-Qaeda blew up the levees instead of the hurricane? Would the response have been any different?

No. It wouldn't. That city flooded in a day. And if it were Las Vegas, I would have been in some operations center watching people try to decide who gets to starve to death and who gets to get on a bus to Los Angeles or Phoenix. And there would be no certainty that I'd be on that bus in time to protect my wife and kids.

But one thing sure would have been different.

They wouldn't have had a whole week to sort it out and know what's coming. They were supposed to KNOW this already. It will have been FOUR YEARS next weekend since someone probably said, "Hey, what if..."

And for that, the whole stack of them should be fired.

I've had it. I'm done. And if the other bunch of assholes can't figure out that what's important is that babies don't starve to death here (and I'm not talking some metaphorical goo-goo thing with school lunches and welfare, but real, actual starving) and we get people out of harm's way, we'll get rid of them too. And so on.

Because this is about leadership, not about bitching on CNN how no one's in charge, or listening to Peggy Noonan furrow her brow at the Governor's performance, or bragging that we've sent in one National Guardsman for every 200 people, or actually having the audacity to say that "we had no idea the levees would break."

Today, I saw my country favorably compared to Indonesia and Thailand, (always our traditional benchmarks of infrastructural success) while the elderly die of thirst in the street. We sneered at France when this happened during a heat wave.

No more."

Source: www.AndrewSullivan.com


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 12:08 AM

Just heard on CNN that Iraq is costing us One billion a day on average.
Now if this had been put to use inside the country-


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: GUEST,G
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 06:45 AM

Azizi, as I continually say, I really don't know the facts. I could write a similar letter coming from a liberal who is disatisfied.
I don't think that is a true letter considering the source. (website) The bus angle tells me that. The buses were in New Orleans, they were not utilized. Have you seen pictures of hundreds under water, both city and school? Again, will someone tell me how any emergency evacuation plan can rely on buses coming from hundreds, if not thousand of mile away?

It's not, 'wait Katrina, while I run a bus in from Chicago to pick up this group of people'.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Peace
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 10:25 AM

FEMA which comes under Homeland Security is the creation of Bush. FEMA has oversight responsibilities. They have screwup in that department. This happened on Bush's watch (NO, he's not responsible for the hurricane--but he is responsible for a chunk of the rescue effort that too a freakin' week to get started. Hell, even Canada had about four dozen SAR folks in Parrish by September 2, 2005. Where the hell was Bush, Cheney, Rice, FEMA? And where are they now?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
Next Page

  Share Thread:
More...


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.



Mudcat time: 30 April 5:23 AM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 2022 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.