BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV

Subject: RE: BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 06:09 PM

Good man, jimmy! I agree with you entirely. That stuff you wrote about political parties vs. the common people is so good it ought to be carved in gold on Capitol Hill or Mount Rushmore or somewhere.

People, indeed, have noble ideas! It's a great shame that the political parties do little more than insincerely pander to some of those ideas while seeking only to gain power and hold on to it.

Subject: RE: BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV
From: jimmyt
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 05:10 PM

well said Ebbie! I feel that I might fit that description. Change is better effected by discussion and logical explanation rather than making people feel stupid.

Subject: RE: BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 05:03 PM

I wish more people were like my next-door-but-one neighbor. They are registered Republicans and conservative. They are NOT neo-conservative. They don't accept this administration's claim to conservatis. They are as appalled as I at what our country has become under this administration and they are working as diligently as I to help other good people wake up. And truth be told, they are as inefficient as I at accomplishing that goal.

.

Subject: RE: BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV
From: jimmyt
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 04:52 PM

Thank you Akeneton for your response. Littlehawk, I appreciate you and agree with you more than you might imagine. Art, The fact that you have a photo of me in your wallet in a designer thong does NOT make you gay. (necessarily, nor does it rule it out.) SRS, yes, blushing, that is in fact, me although I tend to "dress right" and the photo was a mirror image.

As for Conservative administrations, I will heartily agree that they do not tend to be as caring as they should. Neither do Liberal administrations. To me, the key is, political parties, administrations, etc are inherently self-serving and not particularly interested in much except keeping themselves elected and in power. Now, people, that is a different thing altogether. People are good. People, by and large, care about their fellow man. COnservative people, Liberal people,Socialist people. They are all people. People have noble ideals.

Not all of them, mind you, some of them are stealing, whether it is Nikes and TVs from the storm-ravaged New Orleans, or stealing from their stock-holders in Corporate America. Some People are takers, some are givers. THe distribution of good people crosses party lines without as much as a glance. Same with the bad ones. Again, all my opinion,and I hope no-one finds this offensive. jimmyt

Subject: RE: BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 03:25 PM

For sure, Ake, party line and reigning political power does everything it possibly can to utterly quash individuality. I think it would amount to a veritable miracle if anyone of genuinely uncorrupted ideals achieved the leadership of a nation these days, given the political party process as it exists.

That's why I don't look to politicians to "save me" or solve my problems. They can't even save themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 03:20 PM

Little Hawk.. In modern political administrations, we don't see much individuality. Its a case of "follow the party line" or else and the line being promoted by Mr Bush and Mr Blair is pretty unpalatable to me.

As ever your words shine through the mire...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 03:11 PM

Jimmy....I feel an apology is in order.

I did not mean my message to be taken personally ,but on re- reading it after my return from work, I can see why you are upset.

So I hope you and any others who have been offended will accept my apology in the spirit its intended.

Politically, I always find Conbservative administrations more or less uncaring towards the poor and disadvantaged.
The one in power in America at this time ,being one of the worst that I recall.   I will never change my opinion of people who advance such policies...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 03:05 PM

By the way--

Brown is out.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 03:04 PM

I can't get my mind simultaneously around "carnal involvement" and the far left of the republican party. I think I'm safe for now, LH.

Subject: RE: BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 02:58 PM

That's saucy stuff, Stilly! ;-) Don't spend too much time perusing such photos or it may lead down the slippery slope to carnal obsession and complete sensual abandonment...

Subject: RE: BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 02:51 PM

I bet ol' Bill doesn't look like this. Who knew they could zip?

Little Hawk, you're spot on in describing the problem of the political positions held by zealots. They send everyone running for cover, including their own parties. Or so it would seem. Can anyone here name a far-right republican who is out of favor due to their zealousness? It seems to be a party that knows no bounds these days.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 02:31 PM

LOL! Thanks for the laugh, guys. I really needed that.

Look, you can't judge people in thongs until you have seen William Shatner in one. Unforgettable.

Subject: RE: BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV
From: beardedbruce
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 02:25 PM

art,

what supporting evidence do you have for that?

Subject: RE: BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV
From: artbrooks
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 02:21 PM

Anyone who wears designer thongs can't be too conservative.....

Subject: RE: BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 02:13 PM

In support of what you said, Jimmy....

To denigrate anyone merely on the basis of them being a "liberal" or a "conservative" is downright stupid. It's a knee-jerk reaction, based on some painful memory one is carrying in one's emotional body, but not on the powers of reason. There are good people and not so good people in either camp...always have been, always will be. There are people who don't necessarily belong exclusively TO either camp. You don't determine people's worth by the color of the uniform they are wearing or by the one-word hate label you made up for them in your mind...you get to know them as individuals, because every individual is unique.

Unless, of course, you are a fanatic. Then only the hate label matters, right?

This removes the responsibility for actual thought or observation on the part of said fanatic, and also allows him/her to kill others guiltlessly. That's why young soldiers are trained to hate "the enemy" (someone who is probably just like themselves in nearly every way that truly matters).

Dictators and rogue presidents do NOT want you to know these things. If you did, you wouldn't be so willing to go out and kill people for them.

I am proud and happy to be a Leftist...but...I am not supportive of other Leftists when they choose to routinely demonize everyone who does not share their particular political viewpoint. In so doing, they will make the World worse, not better. There are destructive, vicious forces on both the Left and the Right. Always have been, probably always will be. Stalin was on the left. So too the NKVD. The Chinese bigwigs who slaughtered people at Tiananmen Square were on the left. Pol Pot was on the Left. They all equate to Hitler in my mind...and he was on the Right.

Righteousness is not guaranteed by your outer political label! You can belong to any political label whatsoever, and still be a noble person who helps humanity...or a totally destructive individual who does just the opposite.

Subject: RE: BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV
From: jimmyt
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 01:24 PM

Akenaton, while you were typing your vindictive response about how easy it is for me, I was on my way to the local Baptist Church where we are sheltering, clothing and feeding people who were displaced by this disaster. I was taking a truckload of bedding and clothes, but, I forgot, it is EASY for me! Come on, why do you continue to attack me? I do not even know you. How can you hate me? This is several times that you have totally catagorised me in a negative way in threads.

One thing that I have not heard being reported in these threads is the amazing outpouring of help from people to help. People helping people. What a good idea. Every dollar I spend to help in this effort goes directly to help people. How much percentage do you think would make it to help if we used totally government funds? 50%? I doubt it. I may be disappointed in some systems breaking down in this disaster effort, but I am very very proud of the PEOPLE who have helped. In my opinion, there is no better way to help than a combination of Government, Relief Agencies, and millions of PEOPLE all doing their part.

Subject: RE: BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 10:59 AM

I do get a bit worried when names are called, or aspersions cast on the basis of political affiliations, real or imagined. We are a musical, and not a political site, and while it remains an open forum, which I hope it always will, there will always be political discussions. Please can we make our comments constructive and not doctrinal, nobody is 'all good or 'all bad'.
The dictum of Gilbert and Sullivan
I often think it's comical--Fal, lal, la! How Nature always does contrive--Fal, lal, la! That every boy and every gal That's born into the world alive Is either a little Liberal Or else a little Conservative! Fal, lal, la!
is not true, and what is more not all people are interested in politics.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 10:38 AM

I don't think we should be too soft with our tame Conservatives.
Its easy for Jimmy to contribute to a disaster that was at least aggravated by the in-action of his blue eyed boy and his administration.
I have no affiliations to the Republicans or any other political party, but I still contributed to the Red Cross fund.

Just because they're in the minority here, I feel we look on them as slightly eccentric but good hearted dupes, but i will not forget the "cuddly" Conservatives who tried to evict my wife , myself and four boys under school age from our rented house, for daring to join a trades union!!

I also wont forget the miles I tramped to try for work when the Conservative bush telegraph carried the news around our area.

In my experience Conservatives usually revert to type...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 07:17 AM

I think that it will be found that some of that petrol was siphoned off years ago. I've heard that USD 20,000,000 was "diverted" from levee work to building a casino -- although I have no way of determining the truth of this.

This was a long time a-borning, and that is no excuse for it happening at all.

Right now, solve the problem. If you want to keep the disaster and its aftermath in the face of the public, fine. Do so. But send help NOW.

I did not intend to act as a publican to Jimmyt's pharisee, and I hope that he did not take it that way (if you don't understand this, read the New Testament). I just don't like talking about what good I can do, and I know that normally he's the same. It's just the way I was brought up.

He might be a conservative, but I think that he's a true one, not one of the current "borrow and spend" types of neo.

Subject: RE: BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 05:16 AM

jimmyt is quite right that putting out the fire and rescuing the people always ought to get first priority. But trying to find out who it is who syphoned off the petrol (gas) from the fire engines and sent them to the wrong address is worth finding out as well.

Anyone who thinks there aren't plenty of decent conservatives clearly isn't living in the real world. I hope that one outcome of Hurricane Katrina and involvement in helping the survivors, will make some of these decent conservatives a lot more aware of the serious failings of the people in politics who have taken advantage of them, to try to impose a political agenda that is in no real sense conservative, and goes clean against the things that have made people admire America.

Subject: RE: BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 01:18 AM

Akenaton, I AGREE with a great many of Kirsten's views, in a general sense. It's her f**king attitude I don't agree with. If she got sent to hell (a fictional place in my opinon) I figure the devil himself would kick her out, because he just wouldn't be able to put up with her nasty goddamn attitude. I have never seen a more hate-filled person hiding behind the fig leaf of liberal/radical righteousness and accusing others of racism and hatred while she does it. Un-f**king-believable. This lady is seriously emotionally disturbed, let me tell you. Many of her accusations against the US administration and society are right on...it doesn't change the fact that she acts like a self-righteous maniac on a search for some kind of extreme vengeance or martyrdom. She is very, very psychologically ill, and is parading it grandly all over this forum, imagining herself to be a knight in shining armour who defends the disenfranchised of this world. Such people are just an annoyance and a pain when they're powerless (like the young Hitler). They're bloody dangerous when they HAVE power (like the older Hitler). Observe Mr Bush in power for a prime example of that.

Kirsten hates Bush instinctively, because she is so much like him...but from the opposite superficial angle. She wasn't born rich. Her list of "evil people who are to blame for things" is different from his, but her hatred of them is identical.

I don't hate Bush, I just think he's an utter disaster for his own country and for the World. I don't intend to mess up my mind by hating him. It wouldn't be helpful in the least.

Subject: RE: BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 01:15 AM

There's a difference. You (a temporarily anonymous regular Mudcatter) started a separate thread to flame Kirsten, rather than posting disagreement with the substance of her comments, within the thread where her comments appeared.
That's a BIG difference.

Yes, there have been a few ad hominem statements against Kirsten in this thread, but mostly they've stuck to questioning what she said.

The lesson is: don't start threads to attack people, even if the people ARE obnoxious. Also, if you go anonymous on some posts, people are likely to think you're a coward, or worse.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 12:16 AM

I got flack for saying similar stuff about Anderberg's posts when she started four or five threads in the music section--all prewritten and filled with stuff that people are now complaining about.

Subject: RE: BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 11:03 PM

jimmyt, you make several good points.

I'm not visiting these Mudcat pages about Katrina much now, I have too much to do. And while what I donated to the Red Cross wasn't anywhere near as much as jimmyt was able to send, I will continue to help. Texas has absorbed a huge number of the refugees, and a call went out today at work for volunteers at the Salvation Army in town, where 300 are housed. The kids are needing attention, and perhaps the adults need help. I'll take over a stack of books my children outgrew, and I'll also take over a bunch of paper and pencils (if there was ever a group that needs to make lists for themselves, this is it!) and my expertise with the computer. Whether I read to children or help their parents fill out the forms (online or otherwise) is of no matter. But it will be helpful, and is a better use of my time than dignifying malcontent Kirsten's rants with any more responses.

I was, however, curious about this writer who, as Little Hawk says, starts from a position that many of us share politically, but somehow manages to twist and shout to such a degree that she repulses those who might otherwise agree with her. I visited Anderberg's web page--a package of vitreol, all justified by she due to her role as a poor single mother. (But she apparently lives on Vashon Island?) So I guess she isn't out there doing any of these support things, she can't afford to. She's instead insulting the intelligence of many people who could do without her nonsense right now (and by-the-way, if she didn't spend so much time ranting on the computer, I bet she could get a job). Here (in no particular order) are a few tidbits that turned up in a Google search:


Her "hate mail" is posted with the names and addresses of those who deigned to write to her. Her "fan mail" is not treated so--those names and addresses are protected (to conceal the fact that she wrote it herself, perhaps? I know of one author who wrote a book panned by the critics, and she spent hours writing reviews for herself and posting them at Amazon. . .) At any rate, she is an unreliable narrator of the events she sees going on in life and the world around her.

Here's one of her hate mails (I'll remove the poster's name, even if Kirsten didn't):

August 28, 2005
Subject: You are a fucking whiny bitch
From: "xxxxxxxxxx"
"You do not speak for me, you dumb broad. I am black, born and raised in the suburbs of Laguna Beach CA. So yeah, I am privilaged and damn proud of it. My parents are lawyers and doctors. My sister is also a doctor, so you want to tell me that blacks don't enjoy the same benefits as whites? Fuck you! No, I don't believe that the goverment should pay for the homeless, poor, or for single mothers. You should have enough common sense to not have children until you are finacially stable enough to have and afford them. Yeah, my parents paid for me to get my degree in political science from UCLA. I have also met both presidents Bush and Clinton. I support Bush 100%. Why? Because I am a LT in the navy. I did something with my life, not just sitting around whining waiting for a handout like you bitch ass is. Get a real job bitch! I work for a living. So life dealt you a bad hand. Get over it and get over yourself. FUCK YOU!!!!!!!!!"

After a rant about the IndyMedia another reader told her, ala Little Hawk, that she should "check her ego at the door."

Arbitrary and Capricious--another unsatisfied target of Anderberg's mis-firing pen. Once again, the group she speaks up to "defend" want no part of her defense. Plus a well-reasoned response. Then there are the Pot Calling the Kettle Black (near as I can tell without wading into a sea of BSDM blogs) exchanges. Our little Kirsten is quite the lady [not].

Here is the Alexa info about her web site and a look at the links that come and go from her site.

Here's a review--finally--a music connection (can any Mudcatter in the Seattle area provide an independent review?): Kirsten Anderberg has been entertaining and educating audiences with her unusual wit and alarming honesty for over two decades. She is known for bringing audiences to cheers, jeers and tears at festivals, clubs, and political events throughout the Northwest. Whether she is performing solo, or with a swing quintet, a 12 piece Motown revue, or a feminist duo, her performances are always engaging, professional and original.

I do find this one quite interesting, by the pseudononymous "Sister Mary Contrary" from March of this year. It is called Kirsten Anderberg: Anti-Catholic Bigot: Fascists sometimes pretend to be one of us link. It even comes with a rather bizarre photo.

There are pages and pages of stuff both generated by and about Anderberg, but I'll close with this link:

The alternative press is alternative because of what it does, Not because of the social classifications of its participants

A response to Kirsten Anderberg's attack on Alternative Press Review

link

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV
From: bobad
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 10:51 PM

Good on ya jimmyt, a true humanitarian.

Subject: RE: BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 10:42 PM

Good for you, jimmyt, I think it helps to share what we have done, if one is comfortable with it, as it is something concrete and real which people can focus on, instead all of the negativity of the actual disaster AND the aftermath.

I understand the analogy about the burning house, etc., but in this case, if we don't talk about it NOW, I don't have a lot of faith in the general public, esp. those who didn't experience the loss, to remember when it comes time to vote. If we do not continue to force the issue, there may be a long time "commission" which takes until 2008 to study what happened and make recommendations. In this day of cynical politics it could get dragged out forever and people will tire of the whole debate and go back to being sheep voting for the usual "gang of idiots." (apologies to William Gaines.)

Its a pity that there is no real leader coming forward to rally the troops.   The US badly needs a "rabble rouser"..Ake

You got that right, ake! Totally agree!!

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV
From: Sidewalk Bob
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 10:40 PM

Please excuse me fir not havin' read every post since Kristan's original post here, but I couldn't agree with her/him more...

I ain't condemin' no one here but condemin' an American culture that is so overwhlming controled about satisfyin' their own consumption needs that they would not be willin' to look at GWBush and his cronies as the largest threat to the planet...

He is a madman and he is out of control. He and his cronies have stolen not one but two national elections... Yeah, like who cares??? Not too may folk here....

Okay, I ain't read every post but the ones I did readcome up a tad on the Bush apologist side...

Likie3 why apologize fir a terrorist? 100,000 dead Iraqi women and children..

(But, bobert, ain't as bad a Hitler...)

No, not yet....

LIke how many folks keepin' score...

(Ahhh. Ralph, he's still 'bout 6 million behing Hitler so that akes hima good guy...)

No, it don't...

Yeah, shoot to kill to protect the property of his cmapaign donors but screw everyone else... Shoot the crap outta 'um...

Welcome to the newest Third World country... The US of A...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV
From: jimmyt
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 09:19 PM

Rapaire, I know you are doing all you can do, you are that kind of person. I hesitated to mention what we have been doing but somehow I feel that some folks have a hard time imagining conservatives ever doing anything helpful. I hope this is taken in the spirit it was intended and not in a boasting way. It is a private matter and this is the only place it has been mentioned at all by me.

Subject: RE: BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV
From: Rapparee
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 09:15 PM

Right on, Jimmyt.

As I've said earlier, solve the problem FIRST. Then, if you must, find out what went wrong and WHY. If there was criminal negligence it can be dealt with AFTER the problem is solved.

But solve the problem first. We're not talking about statistics here, we're talking about living, breathing, people.

When the house is burning, you don't debate what started it; you save what's important and put the fire out.

(I haven't mentioned what I've done for relief because I consider it no one's business but my own. Suffice to say that I have done and am doing things that will, I hope, alleviate some of the suffering.)

Subject: RE: BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV
From: jimmyt
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 08:57 PM

I know lots of Mudcatters have been doing all they could with their time, money and any other resources they have to try to help rather than just bitching. I know I have been. My friend borrowed my truck to take gasoline and generators to south Mississippi, I have written a check for 2 thousand dollars to the Salvation Army, my wife and I have been gathering clothing, foodstuffs, 2 hundred tooth brushes, 50 hairbrushes, and lots of other stuff to personally deliver to victims of the flood. I suspect as time goes on we will do more if the need continues.

THis is a tragic tragic situation. It is a disaster. No one caused it. No one could have prevented it. There is much fault to be found in all areas of the effort. I cannot see how anyone can possibly make this a political issue. Bad things happen. We do what we can, we cry, we help, we move on. I am disappointed with our government agencies for their performance in this. I am also disappointed in state and local government that they could not have done better. Blame is not going to help. Actions are productive. BLame is destructive. My opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 08:01 PM

Thanks Katlaughing, but I know about the anti war rally, as George Galloway will be addressing the crowd.

I hope he inspires all who hear him, and good wishes to all who attend, I wish I could be there with you.

Its a pity that there is no real leader coming forward to rally the troops.   The US badly needs a "rabble rouser"..Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 07:51 PM

Rapaire..I too remember the Vietnam years...joined the Communist party in 1962, so I was very much against American policy,but I believe the Invasion of Iraq is potentially more of a danger to the West than the Vietnam War.

The politicians today are also more cynical.
At least the American leaders started out believing their own rhetoric in Vietnam. In Iraq they started out lying and have continued to lie, while the bodies on both sides pile higher.

In new Orleans they are trying desperately to shift the blame on to anyone they can, but everyone knows, "the buck stops" with the president.

McGrath.. I think your "cunning plan" might work very well in the UK (remember the unimpressed ladies of the WI), but I dont think it would take off in the cultural wilderness of the USA...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 07:49 PM

Interesting link there, McGrath. I never went through it but my oldest brother was 'shunned' at one point in the Amish church. I remember one meal at home that he ate by himself because shunning required the offending person to remain separate (No communal 'breaking of bread', for instance); that included how families were expected to treat the person. After that meal my mother rebelled and he was welcomed back into the family, if not the fold.

I have/had lots of relatives who practiced it religiously (no pun intended).

I would be willing to reinstate it for the president and his cohorts - they say it's a very lonesome way to go.

Subject: RE: BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 07:40 PM

Riots in the streets could backfire in that bush et al could declare martial law and take away even more of our civil rights, or at least use it as an excuse to try to take over and be baldfaced about his dictatorship.

ake, watch the news the weekend of the 23rd...there is to be a HUGE anti-Bush, anti-war march on Washington with people from all over the nation.

Subject: RE: BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 07:25 PM

"we only associate with those who think as we do, and hence we think that everyone agrees with us."

Not here on the Mudcat we don't.

I think riots on the streets would actually be good news for Bush, aken, because tehy'd takemthe heat of him. In fact, if they happen, I'll suspect the dirty tricks brigade will have been working overtime to bring them about.

I'd like to see a situation where every public appearance the man and his cronies made, people would just turn their backs, and they were treated as non-persons. Any TV appearance the statistics would show millions of Americans switching over to a different channel, or turning off the TV as soon as he appears. There's a term for that sort of thing - "shunning"...

Subject: RE: BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV
From: Rapparee
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 06:51 PM

...The fact that they have presided over a catalogue of disasters much worse than anything that I have seen

I remember the Vietnam years. Worse than that, I remember the Reagan Administration -- not as flashy, but a disaster for the US that is still with us.

Subject: RE: BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 06:42 PM

So much for the "Home of the brave".

Rapaire.... I dont think there will be any accounting, Blair Bush and their masters will fade into obscurity when the time comes...To be replaced by the next "turn"
The fact that they have presided over a catalogue of disasters much worse than anything that I have seen, will be quickly forgotten.

The lives of a few poor blacks or ignorant Iraqi's dont mean much to us.   Its not our fault we didnt vote for Bush or Blair!

Subject: RE: BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV
From: Rapparee
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 06:26 PM

Revolution for the hell of it, Ake? No, thanks. I've lived through that already, but if you want to revolt go right ahead. I'll take the way I've chosen to change things. Give my regards to the M-16s, the tear gas, the vomiting gas, the flechette rounds, and the rest -- I'm glad I've left them behind me.

But I think that the time is coming where there will be an accounting...and the wheels will grind exceedingly fine indeed. No party in power ever seems to remember that change is inevitable -- or, as the man said, "Be nice to those you meet on the way up, for you'll meet them again on the way down."

Subject: RE: BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV
From: pdq
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 06:24 PM

...with appologies to Dave Van Ronk...


"The sewer is clogged with shit. The man who jumps in and saves the day a hero shall surely be.

Sounds like a wonderful opportunity for someone"

























Yeh, for somebody else, not me!

Subject: RE: BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 06:08 PM

Yes pdq theres a bit of truth in that ,but the governments both in the UK and USA are beginning to think that they are untouchable, that they can do whatever they like without being called to account.

Sometimes when that sewer gets clogged with shit, you just got to jump in there and get your hands dirty.

Subject: RE: BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV
From: pdq
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 05:49 PM

Ake...

We all know there has to be a sewer. It's quite another thing to want to sail down it in a glass-bottom boat.

Subject: RE: BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 05:44 PM

Well.. I've got to take the side of Kirsten.

You are all very open minded in your view of the New Orleans disaster.
In reality you should be screaming for the blood of the administration.

The delay in sending in troops and aid was nothing short of criminal, and if it had happened in the UK there would be riots.
I saw some footage on last nights news, of an old folks home where the inmates..about twenty of them I suppose...had been left to drown in their beds. Other horrors included a school of rotting bodies which had to be pushed aside to allow rescue workers to pass through.

Is there no guts or political will left in America? It seems that the blandness of American politics has seeped into you all,tut-tutting like a gang of old women, when you should be marching on Washington to string the bastards up ...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV
From: GUEST,G
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 05:19 PM

Rapaire, Excellent last couple posts! Everyone should go back and read them a couple more times..

Peace, I might consider pdq a moderate but...............

Subject: RE: BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV
From: artbrooks
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 04:53 PM

Gov. Blanco's statement was that the troops were being sent in to quell violence in the city, that they were just back from Iraq and that "these troops know how to shoot and kill and they are more than willing to do so if necessary and I expect they will." This is very different from saying that they had been ordered to "shoot to kill" looters.

Subject: RE: BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV
From: Wolfgang
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 03:04 PM

(I just love the Celtic Rangers comparison.)

It looks as if the incompetence and cock-ups have been at many levels from Town through State to Federal Government. I can't take serious those who try to lay the blame to one particular person or institution and question the motives of those not agreeing with them.

That happens all the time in Germany as well. If there is a flood and the local government is different from the federal (as so often) they each blame the respective others. If both are from the same party they blame the weather. It's natural for politicians, but why should we try to argue like politicians here. We shouldn't sink so low.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV
From: Rapparee
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 02:56 PM

The Mudcat only reflects the greater society -- neighborhood, city, province, nation, world.

Shouting and finger-pointing and blame-fixing are all nice games, but they don't get the cows milked.

When the house is burning you don't stand around and scream about who's to blame: you first put out the fire.

Subject: RE: BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV
From: pdq
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 02:53 PM

Maybe so, but I find that unfortunate. *grim*

Subject: RE: BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV
From: Peace
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 02:50 PM

"Warren Peace"

Woody Allen said he took a speed-reading course and he said he finished the book in just 18 minutes. When asked to speak about the book he replied, "It's about Russia."

pdq--looks like you and I are the only moderates left on the Mudcat. *grin*

Subject: RE: BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV
From: pdq
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 02:45 PM

The 11:15 post by Warren Peace is great. Carefully stated and thoughtful. Thanks.

Rapper - there cannot be an equal amount of shouting from Mudcat conservatives because there are none. Three or four moderates who state facts and opinion, but seldom (if ever) engage in personal attacks. Even DougR left this place in disgust over one month ago.

In my opinion, Cursin' Android Berger should post here everyday. She makes it very clear just how irrational American political discussion has become.

Subject: RE: BS: Death Sentence For Stealing Damaged TV
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 02:37 PM

If one searches google news about the shoot to kill order, there are plenty of press articles including the following:

Troops Arrive in New Orleans With Shoot-To-Kill Orders

September 2, 2005 8:01 a.m. EST

Niladri Sekhar Nath - All Headline News Foreign Correspondant

New Orleans, LA (AHN) – In a bid to prevent rioting and looting, authorities issue shoot-to-kill orders to the troops in New Orleans.

President Bush promises zero tolerance" for the armed gangs controlling the flooded city, reports Agence France-Press.

He is scheduled to visit the affected region, and to ensure his safety, 300 members of the Arkansas National Guard have been deployed.

Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco says that the guardsmen are allowed to open fire on "hoodlums" taking advantage of from the devastation by Hurricane Katrina. "

These troops are fresh back from Iraq, well trained, experienced, battle tested and under my orders to restore order in the streets," Blanco says.

"They have M-16s and they are locked and loaded. These troops know how to shoot and kill and they are more than willing to do so if necessary and I expect they will," she adds.